If you filed for divorce, were you 100% sure?

[Bluepetticoat]

I am trying to help my best friend who has just filed for divorce after 25 years marriage. This is the 2nd time in 10 years and last time she withdrew it after a few days. She partly does it as a test, to see if he reacts, although each time they have genuinely reached rock bottom, but she files in anger and despair. She admits she doesn't want to get divorced, but says that having filed, his reaction is not enough to make her stop it. She is constantly asking me if she has done the right thing- and I simply don't know and told her that. She has 2 other close friends who are urging her to go through with it.

Is this wavering to be expected, or does it show that she really should not be doing this?

She is filing on the grounds of UR but TBH had he filed first, he could have used a similar reason- it's not all his or her fault, as I expect is often the case.

I'm also finding it hard not to take sides because the problems are caused by both of them- not just him.

I'm not divorced yet, but no, I have never experienced a moment's doubt since I decided I wanted a separation.

or does it show that she really should not be doing this?
No, I think it shows she really should be doing it. It just shows quite how messed up she/their relationship is.

"She admits that she doesn't want to get divorced".

As someone who filed a year ago, and hopefully is finally seeing the light at the end of a very long costly tunnel, divorce is something that nobody really wants, but sometimes it's the only option.

I never wanted to get divorced, but I simply had no choice. When you realise this, it's irrelevant what others think - you simply follow your gut.

I agree. It sounds to me like neither of them really want to take the responsibility for ending a long relationship so both are forcing each other's hands IYSIM.

I filed even though I still loved my x very much. But there was simply no other option, as Saff says.

That's interesting "Saffysmum" because she says she has " no choice".

I believe everyone always has a choice, but when they say they have no choice what they really mean is they don't like the other options available.

She wants to try, he says he wants to try, but IHO, he isn't making enough of the right moves to back up what he says he wants.

She thinks he is putting the ball in her court, and forcing her hand, even though she doesn't want to do it.

My opinion is they are just incompatible and always have been. But I am worried about her- if she goes through with it, she is going to say that he gave her no choice, yet he did- she has filed because she was testing him and in her eyes he didn't respond sufficiently- but that is so subjective, isn't it?

It's a pwer game between them- when she says she wants to try , and says all the right things, he backs off and obviously feels he has the power in the relationship. When he says he wants to try, she backs off waiting for him to do and say what she thinks he ought to. And so they go round in circles.

It sounds like she's filing for divorce as a weapon to try and make him change along the lines she wants.

She doesn't seem to have accepted that she can't make anyone change.

She will need to:

• know her limits for acceptable behaviour,
• own her choices, and
• stop thinking she can change him,

in order to file (or indeed remain with him) with peace of mind.

I think your friend and her husband sound manipulative, selfish and you should stay well out of it. Do not get dragged into taking sides or be tempted to give advice. Filing for divorce seems to be their way of creating a personal drama in which everyone - including you and other friends - are bit players to their leading roles. If she asks your opinion say 'you know best' or 'none of my business'... and leave it at that.

It sounds like she is doing the right thing, to me. Their relationship sounds messed up and unfixable. And maybe counselling for either her or both, separately, post split?

Saffysmum you are so right. No-one WANTS to get divorced, everyone would rather live happily ever after. People get divorced when happily ever after is no longer an option.

Bluepetticoat I think you should try to listen without judging, taking sides or giving advice (tricky...). Sounds to me like it has been an unhappy relationship for a long time and I can't see how it could improve.

I'm getting divorced and sometimes wish it wasn't happening because it is so hard to live through this. That doesn't mean it is the wrong thing for me though, it definitely is not!

Thanks for all the comments.
It is very hard not to get "involved" because we have been close friends for over 30 years - long before she met DH. She'd Godmother to one of my DCs, etc etc.

She asks me, literally, "WHat should I do?"- several 2 hr phone conversations this week.

I have told her that I cannot tell her what to do. Unfortunately, another very close friend is egging her on, so when I stand back it looks as if I am not on her side, if that makes sense.

Counselling- she had 5 years' worth on her own. They have also had couples counselling .

In a nutshell- she thinks he does not show emotions or affection, spontaneously, so she demands it in a very aggressive way (IMO).

He has told her he cannot change his personality- she says he can change his behaviour though.

I think they are both clinging to a ship wreck afraid to let go- I told her that .

I am trying not to get involved but I don't see how I cannot be when she talks to me and demands a reaction!

Dont egg her on dont discourage her

It sounds like you are doing a good job of listening which is all she really needs. Just stick to time worn phrases like "only you can know that" if she presses you for an answer.

You can absolutely not be involved. She can demand a reaction and the one you give is that 'this is not my decision to make but I will support your decision, whatever it is'. Constantly canvassing opinion is her way of trying to get someone to agree with what she wants to do. So far it would seem that no-one has given the answer she wants to hear so her answer is to keep asking. It therefore isn't your problem. In such a personal matter as marriage, they have to take responsibility and live with the outcome.

Constantly canvassing opinion is her way of trying to get someone to agree with what she wants to do.

That is so true. She only wants opinions that confirm hers- not anything else.

I love my friend to bits- we are more like sisters- but I have noticed that since this kicked off a few weeks back, she has confided more in people who have known her for much less time- including someone who is an almost "acquaintance". She told me about that and said she liked to talk to people who didn't know all the "back history" so much and could present them with the "facts". What that means IMO is she tells them enough to justify her own decision- and wants them to back her up.

Sorry if that sounds mean.

I have told her that if I tell her to divorce and 5 years down the line it's the wrong decision she will blame me- and vice versa if she stays.

However, her other close friend has painted the DH as a complete bastard. My friend has challenged me to say whether I agreed and I said no. I said there was /is fault on both sides. She has done /said appalling things which she does admit....but she always wants him to have been a bit worse!!!

I suppose what I am trying to say is that because I refuse to call him a bastard, and am not egging her on, she thinks I am not on her side and not giving her the support she wants.

I began divorce proceedings in 2009 but backed out quite early on, I wasn't sure I could handle being on my own, and DD was only 18 (as DF pointed out, and I took on board). Last Sept, after trying to get OH to talk about whether we could rescue things, to no avail, I went ahead, and the absolute was in Feb. It was very much the right thing to do, for me.

Even if she gets divorced, there is no law saying she couldn't get back together with him afterwards, if by a miracle, things changed.

Well, funnily enough that scenario is one her "other friend" mentioned- a reconciliation later. I don't think though that it's right too divorce as a means of bringing someone to their senses and hoping they will crawl back later.

They have no DCs.

btw, my relationship was verbally, emotionally and financially abusive. I couldn't talk about the financial aspect to friends, and the other abuse sounded so trivial that most friends just didn't understand. I found the Support for EA thread of huge benefit. Am not saying this is deffo the case with your friend, but could be a possibility.

Thanks TPP.

I think they are both guilty of emotional abuse.

Actually- more so her.

I suppose what I am struggling with now that I have posted, and it's clearer in my head, is she sees me as unsupportive because I won't validate her decision- which she is unsure of anyway- and sees me as less of a friend than other friends.

She wants everyone to tell her that "it's all HIS fault" which it isn't. Her behaviour has been very bad too. I just worry that without her admitting her part in it all she will end up bitter, blaming him, and not learn anything from al of this- and will carry it with her. She is very very controlling and yet this hides deep insecurity.

I hope this doesn't make me seem less of a friend or if I don't like her- that's not true- but there is a bit of self-delusion on her part, maybe just to enable her to get through this? I don't know.

These 2 will get back together

OP I would advise your friend to hold fire and do nothing when in doubt. My parents divorced after 28 years of marriage ...It was as though my mother divorced my father in a tantrum...they never really split up and are getting married again next month !

I thought I was being abusive too but it was a reaction of rage and helplessness against his abuse. Lots of people on the EA thread thought the same of themselves, it is quite a common reaction. Obviously I know hardly anything of your friend's relationship. Many of my friends thought it was six of one, half a dozen of the other, trust me, it wasn't!

Being a friend does not mean being a mug or a yes-man. Being supportive takes many forms. If you are honest and she falls out with you, she isn't much of a friend. If she only wants to stay friends with people that agree with her, she hasn't got much character. People who are controlling or ego-centric tend not to lavish it solely on their partners, they treat their friends the same way.

You can still like someone even if you understand their faults. But you can equally step away from unreasonable behaviour and should not feel guilty about doing so.

I think you can still like someone and want to be friends with her while acknowledging her faults, but in my experience those faults have to be quite minor in the scheme of things e.g a bit of vanity or being a bit of a scatterbrain. Perhaps even a bit selfish at times, because we can all be that.

But liking a friend who you think is an emotional abuser? That's quite a powerful statement to make about a friend. I've got to say that if one of my friends thought I was that, I'd assume she didn't like me very much at all and I'd want to know if she thought that about me, especially my best friend of 30 years!

I guess you've got to decide whether you can live with her thinking you're being unsupportive? Also whether you can live with her preferring other people's advice rather than yours? That seems to be the crux of your dilemma - how this affects you personally and ergo, your friendship with her.

When I said emotional abuse, maybe that was incorrect. She does have anger management problems within the relationship because she completely loses it with him. This takes the form of screaming, throwing things and recently, one episode of physical violence when he had to run out of the house- rather than retaliate physically . There have been other episodes of that I would call completely unreasonable behaviour from her. I don't want to say what because although she doesn't use MN other people might and recognise her. I also feel disloyal. I am trying to stay supportive, and really wanted to know if she was being reasonable to ask for help with her decision and how I could carry on being supportive, but staying neutral. It's a hard balancing act! I cannot, hand on heart tell her it's all his fault because it isn't.

No one outside of a relationship can ever say it's all one person's fault, or even which one's worse than the other. Your friend's anger and what sounds like uncharacteristic violence is the behaviour you see and hear about, but what prompted that? It's obviously not the appropriate way of dealing with a problem in the marriage, but I'm presuming she must be generally a kind, non-violent person or you wouldn't be friends with her for so long? If one of my old friends behaved like that it would be a shocked response to extreme hurt, such as a betrayal. Not excusable but understandable in someone's shock and pain. If she behaved like that frequently though, well I couldn't see how we'd be friends.

It still comes down to the same thing though. You have to refuse to give advice or express an opinion and let her come to her decision in her own time. That protects her as well as you. I don't think it's unreasonable that she's consulting other people who aren't so invested - it's what you are doing with this thread after all! If another close friend is being directive with her, well that's for the two of them to work out. Maybe that friend knows something you don't, maybe she stands to gain something by giving that advice or maybe she doesn't have safe boundaries in friendships. What other people are saying isn't really your concern, unless you are feeling slighted or miffed that she prefers them to you, in which case that is your problem and is something you'll need to overcome, because that's about your ego and not your friend's dilemma.

A relationship breaking down doesn't have to be anyone's fault. Does it really matter who was more to blame? Your friend needs to decide whether the relationship is over, not obsess about who has behaved the most badly.

OP

if you had posted some of the things on here as he did it we would have had woman's aid numbers by now.

TBH

let them get on with it.