Lies, cheating and too many complications

[isenoughenough]

I don't even know where to start here, it's all very complicated. My current situation is driving me nuts, I just don't know what to do, or who to talk to. So I am hoping that getting it off my chest here will help.

I am pregnant with our second child, DS is 20 months. I have been with DH for nearly 3 years.

In February, the day before Valentines (nice) He told me he wanted a break from our relationship. We have been having issues that mostly revolve around our sex life declining while I was pregnant and looking after a small child. We have had a bad few months, a miscarriage, SS intervention (from a false report), me being bullied at work and antenatal depression. For completeness I should say that he also told me he had considered leaving when I was 36 weeks pg with DS, but sorted himself out and told me he was in it for the long haul. He told me he had cheated on me (oral sex) twice, since I was pregnant.

We had discussed him seeing other women previously, but I realised that I would have difficulty with this, and he had agreed not to. I have been in open relationships before, but this is marriage, and I considered that to be exclusive.

The next day he told me he had thought about it, my reaction (I was devastated) showed I still cared about him, he thought I didn't, he cheated because he was lonely and felt unloved, and I agreed to try and work things out. We agreed to go to Relate, but this never happened as we didn't have childcare.

Shortly afterwards, my best friend who had recently split up with her boyfriend came to stay with us. Both she and I are bisexual, and have a fairly flirtatious relationship, DH encourages this, he is happy for me to have relationships with women separately to our marriage, but I have never acted on it. While she was with us, one thing led to another and she and I began a relationship, with full disclosure and DH's blessing. It was completely unexpected, but actually had a positive impact on me and DH, as I was generally happier having the company and affection from her.

She (and me and DH) has an interest in BDSM, I have always been OK with DH taking part in non-sexual BDSM (like spanking) with other women, and it was proposed that he could do that with BF. I had no issue with this.

Then he came to me and asked how I would feel, hypothetically if things got sexual with her. I was surprisingly OK with this, it was a "sometime in the future, maybe" sort of question, and she was about to go away on work for a while, so I felt we had a cooling off period, I also didn't think she was into him like that, and a bit like I had to say yes as he was OK with me sleeping with her. I told him I didn't see it as a huge problem, as long as their relationship wasn't romantic, and they took precautions. I also wanted him to disclose if anything happened, just so I knew, not gory details, just a heads up so I wasn't in the dark. We were actually very settled in this poly type of agreement, I knew he wasn't going to go off with a stranger, and I love them both dearly.

So time went by, she went off for her work, then she fell ill. She went abroad for a bit, and was still ill, she stopped talking to me and DH got a bit stressy and short with me. He was generally being an arse and I seriously started reconsidering the idea of working things out with him.

Then he dropped the bomb. The day after he had spoken to me about it, when dropping her back home, he had slept with her. She was pregnant, and planning a termination when she got back to the UK, he was sad, as a father that his child would be aborted, and she was feeling terribly guilty. For several weeks he had lied to me, we even joked about how he wasn't getting sex with her any time soon as she was busy or ill and maybe fate was cockblocking him. But it wasn't. Eventually (days later) he admitted they had sex 3 times, twice when she came and stayed with us to recuperate as she was feeling ill.

I am not bothered that they had sex, I had agreed with that, I am also not bothered that she accidentally fell pregnant, it is really sad to see them going through the angst of it all, but is was an accident. I am really, really bothered about the lying. He had many opportunities to tell me, but he hid the fact that they were having sex, and the pregnancy from me, even when we talked about it. I am also angry at him for putting our health (his, hers, mine and my unborn child) at risk by having unprotected sex without the precautions or tests we had agreed upon.

So last night we sat down and I told him that I was really fed up with the lies, and hiding things from me, I can't keep trying to rebuild the relationship when he keeps breaking my trust. I wanted to hear about the circumstances in which he cheated before, to clear the questions and start with a blank slate and no secrets. Then he tells me that actually he had previously cheated on me 3 times, twice 2 years ago when I was pg with DS, when our relationship was good, and we hadn't discussed any level of openness, before we were married.

I feel completely betrayed, it's like he can't actually tell me the whole truth about anything, when stuff has come out he has drip fed me the details, telling me that is it, then later it comes out that there was something else.

I love him, I want to raise our 2 babies with him, and for everything to be fine again, but is it even possible to rebuild trust after all this?

sorry but this is complete madness, neither of you seem to have any boundaries or real understanding of what makes YOU happy. Hence the utter mess you find yourself in.

I honestly don't know how you can have sustained such drama over such an amount of time. I couldn't bear it.

fuckmybackiskillingme Do you practise sexual activity in front of your children? If not, then why would you think anyone else would?
Also, BDSM doesn't mean bondage gear is involved at all, it can just mean the right look and the right words. I don't own a 10" vibrator or anything similar if that helps you, but if you enjoy the concept, perhaps you should, probably best kept in the bedside cabinet....

Your poor children being born into this. I suspect ss will take them if you do not leave these dodgy people and try and live a relatively average life. I feel for you as you had a bad start. Even more reason to get away from the odd bod normality your bf and oh think of as normal.

lola - if there was no emotional aspect then there would be no problem, we would all just walk away. The relationship between me and BF was entirely to fulfil emotional needs, and I certainly didn't pounce on her, or she I. What a strange interpretation. My live doesn't revolve around sex, if you had read, then you would see there isn't very much sex at all, I have a job, a child to look after, a house to keep, and just occasionally, about once a month, I quite like to have intimate relations with someone I love. For a short while I had a choice of 2, all consenting adults. How does that make me a predator?
I see a Sexual Psychotherapist, because that is who I was referred to, it's not some kind of perversion, it's treatment. If a friend, or daughter of yours was raped repeatedly at 14 years old, would you accuse her of being a pervert for seeking the help of a specialist to treat the psychological damage? If you had read upthread you would see that this is one of a number of different interventions, this one designed to help me cope with medical exams, birth, and to be able to have sex without pain or having to cry for an hour afterwards. It's not a self referral because I am sex obsessed, it was my counsellor deciding that I would be better off talking to a specialist about abuse and birth trauma.

Sophie - What makes you think that SS would take my children? My son is well cared for, loved, healthy, developmentally on track. He is not abused, he is not neglected. We have never had cross words in front of him. His dad plays with him, gives him cuddles, reads him stories, I do the same and all the mum things. Like any healthy family, our sex life happens when he is well out of the way, asleep or being cared for elsewhere. I am looking to this thread to get some objective input as to whether I try and continue to build a monogamous relationship with DH where we can live as a family, or whether I should leave DH and be a single mother. Neither of these outcomes are a concern for SS, surely?

I'm going to NC back now, I think this thread has worn out its usefulness and turned into a game of judging the OP for sport, and as I said earlier, I just wanted to talk through my situation (and mostly the issue of DH hiding the non-consensual non-monogamy from me, I think the consensual non-monogamy has been too much of a red herring) because I couldn't talk in confidence to anyone in RL. Thank you to those of you who have offered advice or support in a non-judgemental way, it really means a lot.

You said ss were once called out. If you are discussing your relationship with professionals, flags will have been raised.

Sophie - SS were called by a neighbour because DS who was sick with croup, was crying all night one night. They visited a couple of times and it was very stressful at the time, but our file was signed off with no concerns, DS is not considered at risk. My counsellor does not think DS is at risk, because he is not, we have discussed this frankly, because the stress of SS was a contributing factor to me coming back to her, after being signed off as healthy a year ago.

Lola, I think you are filling in a lot of gaps for yourself here, your assessment is wildly out.
I said before, it isn't a large part of my life, but like most people in an adult relationship, I have sex. This post is about issues surrounding this, so oddly enough I haven't added any details about the rest of my life. I'm not into spanking, DH is, which is why he has done that with other women, I think it's silly, not sexy at all. Bisexuality is my sexual orientation, if BF had been male you would never say that "heterosexuality is a large part of your life". I happen to be able to form romantic attachments to people of either sex, I have had monogamous straight relationships, and monogamous lesbian relationships, it's not my identity, it's just a preference, or lack thereof. There is nothing wrong with being bisexual, or gay.

I think you are confused about the Sexual Psychotherapist, she is a psychotherapist who deals exclusively in patients who are victims of sexual abuse, or have sexual dysfunction. She's not some sex coach or anything dodgy like you are implying, she is an NHS therapist. My self esteem issues come from being abused, my mainstream counsellor thought she was better equipped to deal with that. It was not my choice, it was what was offered, and she is brilliant.

I don't see sex as "sport" I never said that, you took that totally out of context, I wasn't even referring to sex! What I did say is that I like to connect physically with people I love sometimes, primarily that would be DH, on one occasion that was BF. It doesn't rule my life, or "overlap" into my life. It's just something that I do sometimes.

I haven't "gone along" with the behaviour from my DH that I find objectionable. He did stuff behind my back and lied about it. That is the problem I have. You have not really addressed that at all, you have just blamed me and called me a sexual predator, with no reasonable explanation.

I am very aware that the poly thing didn't work out, it may have been a silly idea. I do know several people who have poly relationships and are very happy. We, as you say, am probably not able to do so, but I didn't know that before trying it, otherwise I wouldn't have tried it. Ultimately my marriage seemed to be falling apart, and it didn't seem like there was anything to lose with it. BF was very happy in the situation, she made the first moves on me, I'm not sure how it worked with DH, but she did come back for more, so I doubt she hated the experience. I think you are projecting your own issues onto a situation you don't understand.

Can I just ask; if your DH wanted to spank your mate, and she wanted to be spanked, what did you expect to happen when you agreed for them to do it? I can't understand how you could agree to spanking but not sex. Surely spanking is foreplay, ie intrinsically sexual and leads to sexual arousal? (for people who are into it obv)
Weird arrangement in the first place if you ask me.

What pouncing? I am 6 months pg ffs, with very low libido. I couldn't pounce if I tried. I don't know what I have changed, if you gave me an example I might get what you are talking about.

He did agree to me having a relationship, is that really hard to understand, he was OK with it, he suggested it, and before you start on it, he wasn't after a threesome, that would never be an option and he know that. It was a mistake agreeing to him being with her, I do know it was something they both wanted. Perhaps I should try less hard to please.

We are both supporting her through the abortion. We also offered to support her if she wanted the baby. It is likely that DH will go with her for the procedure, but that is her call. None of this was relevant so I didn't bring it up, but we were very close before anything sexual happened and we remain that way. She and I will always be good friends regardless. We do care for each other a lot, despite what you think.

I don't know how unsisterly it is to be OK with her having experiences she enjoys. I'm not going to begrudge her enjoying sex, I haven't discussed the gory details about her and DH with her, but we have talked a lot about the pregnancy and she has not referred to regretting the act itself, just the lack of precautions.

I don't get off on having been abused, it may colour my relationships in terms of imprinting, I am aware of that, but I don't actually enjoy the idea.

I'm not going to pay any attention to your diagnosis of my psychological state, I have 2 qualified professionals who actually know me, and have spent hours talking to me to do that, and they are confident that I am making good progress. I am too, I have been with much worse men than DH, who has an awful lot of decency in with a strong streak of immaturity and impulsiveness. I do have the capacity to question his actions, and confront him with it, which is a start, I could just be sitting around ignoring the lies and letting him fuck about, I'm not, I'm looking for a way to set things right or get out.

Erik, I did agree to spanking and just spanking, and that is fine. I then also agreed to sex, I am not bothered about the sex, I am bothered that he lied about it and then about the pregnancy.
I am more bothered about the blow jobs 2 years ago that I hadn't agreed to that he only just told me about.

OP how did you deal with your H sexually assaulting you before? did you confront him about it? has he had counselling? is he remorseful?

I confronted him, he went to sleep in the spare room for a while until I felt safe to sleep with him again. He is remorseful. I don't think he thinks things through, when I told him it was assault he was shocked and it took a while to sink in (I guess there had been times when we had sleepy sex and it took a bit of a prod for him to realise that this was not the same). I think he could do with some counselling, we were supposed to be going to Relate together, but I have no one to look after DS, I was wondering whether I should send him on his own, or whether he needs me there to make sure the facts are straight.

i just want to point out your language... "send him" to counselling... "whether he needs me there"... i'm not trying to be nitpicky, but that has nothing to do with you. why has he not been clambering to sort himself out? is he one of these helpless types who expects you to be in charge of the parts of his life that he can't be arsed with?

i think you are being used in a really dreadful way OP. this is going to sound cruel but he really sounds like a manchild. are you honestly going to stay with him?

earlier on i think you said something like "he's a good man except he's impulsive and immature"
but do you see that a man who is impulsive and immature is a dangerous man to have in your life, especially when you are a) a survivor of abuse, b) a mother, c) pregnant with another baby, and d) attempting to navigate a poly relationship?

it honestly sounds to me like you and your H are acting out a very painful and dangerous psychodrama (probably to do with the massive boundary violation you suffered with your rape/abuse) with one another and i really feel for all involved. including your children and your BF. this is a deeply unhealthy dynamic.

don't you think you should split with this person? wouldn't it be better to build something healthy, with a man who's capable of nurturing and respecting you? your H sounds AWFUL. i mean really really awful, just a complete train wreck of a human being.

btw i'm also a CSA and rape survivor so i'm not just talking out of my arse here. i can see parts of myself in you.

Your OP starts by saying that it's all very complicated. If you strip away the details, which is hard to do because so much of it is kind of outside the 'norm', then I would say it's very simple really. The problem seems to be that your DH is an utterly selfish, self-obsessed man, and like so many men like that, once you got pregnant and suddenly everything in your life and relationship didn't prioritise him and his interests and wants, everything went tits up.

If he were obsessed with going out with his mates and getting pissed, or playing Call of Duty, or going fishing or playing golf, then your OP would look simpler, and far more familiar. But he's obsessed with sex, and (more complications) the open marriage/bisexuality aspect which has in the past played a legitimate role in your marriage. So, on the surface of it, total headfuck.

But put all that away for a minute and look at the actual elements which are causing the problem, and they all stem from his selfishness in the face of being asked to put his own wants on the back burner as parenthood arrives - in other words, to grow the fuck up. Normal, supportive, GOOD partners know that when their partner is undergoing the stress, uncertainty and slog of pregnancy, their role is to support, to care, to put their own needs aside. Ditto when baby comes, with bells on. Mature partners can handle this, because they know that sex/golf/lads nights out can WAIT, because at this time, there are genuinely more important things going on in their lives- building a family, cementing their relationship, going through the most intense experiences of their lives. Immature twats, however, can't quite get to grips with this. Your H is of the latter camp. Since your first pregnancy, let's see, he has:

• let you know that he was thinking of bailing out, shortly before the birth
• been unfaithful beyond the boundaries of your relationship
• harassed and pressured you for sex when you were physically and emotionally unfit to take part
• manipulated your relationship with your friend, essentially for his own kicks
• lied repeatedly
• had an affair

and it goes on, and all because he couldn't for even a second put you, your pregnancies and your babies ahead of his stupid obsession with sex.

The poly aspect of all this, especially, is a total red herring, because the real problem would be the same if it were missing. Your H is just a selfish, selfish man. He is not the only person whose needs matter, and he thinks that he is. So, you ask: 'I love him, I want to raise our 2 babies with him, and for everything to be fine again, but is it even possible to rebuild trust after all this?'

Personally, I don't think a good relationhip is possible here - and do you know why? The one thing which stands out for me is his harassing you for sex during the time you were healing. Him seeing you in pain, and STILL his uppermost thoughts aren't 'Goodness I hope she's going to be ok' but 'I'm only having sex once a month, I need to go elsewhere.' That is disgusting. Really, totally disgusting - the ultimate in nothing matters but MEEEE blinkered, unable to empathise selfishness. Especially knowing your sexual history, presumably. Nasty man.

This man isn't going to be a good father or partner unless he changes so radically, I can't see it happening. I feel for you and also for your poor friend, I have to say. And reading of how sad and sympathetic you sound when retelling how she doesn't want to have a termination, I can't help but ask how you would feel if she changed her mind and kept the baby. If the answer is 'fine, actually' then if I were you I would tell her that.

The thing is oik, if I point out to him how awful he is being, and he realises, he is absolutely mortified. He doesn't want to be awful. At least I think he doesn't, maybe he is turning on the waterworks to manipulate me, it doesn't seem like it. He has been childish he's like a naughty boy who got caught out, right down to his body language. He tells me he lied because he didn't want to upset me. I have explained that it is not doing the upsetting things rather than not talking about them which will cause the minimal damage.

He tells me he wants to grow up, and be better, and do right by us. He has shown evidence of this in the last week or so, he has been trying and doing well, but I don't know if he will maintain the effort or get bored and revert.

I find it hard to consider taking his children away from him (DS loves him so much) and turning all our lives upside down over issues that happened in the past when he is trying to fix it.
Putting things right is a fairly attractive prospect when the alternative is raising 2 under-2s, with no family to support me, not many friends locally, no job (I've just given maternity notice, and he doesn't earn enough to support us and himself in 2 different households). If he can just be honest with me, and keep it in his pants, and help around the house a bit, that would be better than nothing maybe.

agree with doctor...
OP your H is a proper twat. i mean like a proper, horrible, nasty bastard. and you need to get away from him, for your own sanity and that of your children

(crosspoted)
OP i hear you.

the thing is

you have made the fatal mistake of confusing words with actions.

words are meaningless. if you want to know how someone really feels about you... look at their actions only.

you mean very little to this man and you are awfully, awfully vulnerable. you need to start seeing that. yes it will be hard to go it alone, but LOOK at this man and what he thinks of you. is staying with him, and teaching your babies that this sort of nonsense is OK, really a viable alternative??

a man who can only see he's being a twat AFTER you painstakingly explain it to him, is not a man you need in your life. and he is not a proper father for your children either

doctordwt, you have absolutely hit the nail on the head, many times. It would probably not surprise you when I say that him going out drinking all night (apparently OK because I was asleep) and playing computer games have also been issues in our relationship.

He has said that he felt the need to have sex with me to "reconnect" after having to face the idea of losing both of us during a difficult birth. I think he sometimes sees it as a way of sharing the fact that we are alive if that makes sense. He was the same after his father died (with me, not his father, that would have been very wrong). There is definitely some kind of conflict between wanting to nurture me, but his sex drive overriding that, most days he manages, but when he doesn't, even if it is just occasionally, it is damaging.

DH didn't want BF to terminate the pregnancy, he told her that because he wanted to make sure she wasn't doing it out of obligation to him. I also had a conversation with her about this (she didn't understand why he was sad about the termination, she doesn't think he should care) and the conversation came around to alternatives, I told her that I would be happy to adopt if that was what she wanted (would be a nightmare with 2 babies 4 months apart, but I would if I could), but it isn't, she just wants it over with. She knows both DH and I would support her in whatever choice she took, this one is very much hers, although I think it is more born out of worrying about what people would think, and the practicalities than emotion.