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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

How should I deal with my family's negative attitude towards me and the impact of this on DS please? Sorry, this is long..

43 replies

maristella · 06/04/2012 12:20

I have a bad relationship with my mother, she has nothing positive to say to me or about me, but will mostly hold back from negativity towards me.

DS is 14, and lovely :) He is very sensitive.

Last year my mother accused me of neglecting DS by denying him drinks Hmm although he is a teen, is given plenty of drinks, and can easily access squash, water and hot drinks if he wants them. He does need some prompting. My mother was lucky lucky to be able to continue to have a relationship with DS and I. I did not tell DS about this accusation; there was no need to upset him, and since the accusation was borne out of malice and a need to criticise. My brother told DS that mother and I 'had argued' but urged DS not to believe everything he hears (from me). That put me in a position where I had to explain the situation to DS, while he had been forewarned not to believe my explanation.

At the time I made it very clear to my mother that her nasty attitude towards me will not be tolerated, particularly in our home. I also made it very clear to brothers that I will not put up with this.

Since then things have been as ok as they could ever be. Until this week.

My mother offered to take DS out for the afternoon and evening while I worked this week, which was kind of her. She then took some food items from my house which were defrosting. I looked everywhere then called to ask if she knew where they were. Brother answered and told me they had taken them because they had assumed they were my contribution. I explained that I did not know this arrangement had conditions attached, and that I cannot afford to give any food away at the moment. Brother got unpleasant (he has been very aggressive towards me over my refusal to be treated like shit by mother in the past, which intimidated me).

When mother dropped DS off later I asked for my food in a light hearted way, and was given replacements that they had bought. I thanked her. I was met with a barrage of sneering criticism about what I should be providing for DS but am not. I asked her why she feels the need to criticise me constantly and why she never feels she can praise me and recognise my successes. She started to leave, and I said she cannot criticise me in my house, and yes she ought to leave. DS ran off. When she had gone he came back in tears and said that since my phone conversation with my brother he had been really worried about everything.

I just cannot trust either of them. My mother has never liked me, has never tried to boost my self esteem, choosing instead to put me down at every opportunity. My brother backs her to the hilt, and can be aggressive in doing so. They are not able to hide this from DS, and make him feel awful :(

I also realise that DS was worried about my reaction. I am explosive when it comes to my mother, I just will not tolerate her nastiness and will bite back. I wish I didn't.

Both mother and brother have not spoken to me since, and giventheir track record are likely to make arrangements with DS without contacting me.

I feel the need to assert my position as DS' mum and protector. I need them to understand that their position in DS' life is actually conditional, and that they cannot compromise him like this. DS loves them, esp my brother and would hate to have this relationship disrupted, he fears losing my brother, and I think he would rather I shut up and put up in order to not rock the boat, yet hates their attitude towards me.

How do I move on from here? How do I find a way to manage this?
I'm sorry this is so long, but it is difficult to discuss this with family and my friends cannot stand my mother and talking about these incidents fuels this.
I would really appreciate some advice

OP posts:
mamas12 · 06/04/2012 13:17

well that is disgraceful behaviour. Your poor ds being in the middle.
I think you need to let your brother know your sons opinion.
If he is in any way worried about the welfare of your son then hopefully he will wind his neck in and stop saying things to your son.

I think your son unfortunately has to say to them what he has said to you, that unless they start respecting you and stop putting you down in front of him then he will walk out, I am sure they don't want that.

Give him the confidence to be able to say it to them either by email or on the phone if he can't face to face and then leave the ball in thier court.

RandomMess · 06/04/2012 13:23

Your DS is 14 so is an age when arranging to see them himself is fairly reasonable.

In fact would it be better/less harmful if he makes contact with them directly and therefore removing you from the loop? He has your permission to see them, you will always come and collect him if he wants picking up from their early but they would no longer be coming in your home etc?

CogitoErgoSometimes · 06/04/2012 13:26

Your DS is reacting to the confrontation. Arguments can be upsetting. The answer is therefore not to back down but to ask him to wait for you somewhere until you've had a chance to talk to his grandma/uncle. Then take your mother somewhere quiet and make your point calmly. Rather than emotional inward-looking questions like 'why do you feel the need to criticise me constantly?' ... a welcome-mat for a bully.... make it about her & keep it brief. 'Don't accuse me of neglecting DS. You only make yourself look ridiculous'

springydaffs · 06/04/2012 13:41

I'm at the other end of this hideous state of affairs ie my kids are grown. If I could just re-write history and cut off my family at the start .

it's too late now. As it is for you. I also have a toxic family and my kids were subjected to this shit from the get-go. No amount of talking to my family, sanctions etc goes anywhere at all ime. Nothing works, except physical distance. I would go so far as to say if at all possible, if it doens't disrupt ds's schooling: move. yy I know that sounds drastic but I wish with my whole heart I had. You can't underestimate how poisonous these people can be. As for someone saying maybe ds can see them alone: no chance, they will corrupt him about you. I wish I could say that was theory.

CailinDana · 06/04/2012 15:02

It's time to get your mother and brother out of your life, for good. They are abusing you, and you can't let it continue. As for your son, he is of an age where he can make his own choices. You need to sit down with him, explain the situation honestly and clearly but without emotion and without influencing him. Just tell him that you are cutting contact and that it's entirely up to him if he wants to continue seeing them. If he does want to continue then you will have to see them now and again but just make it clear to them that you are no long listening to their bullshit and ignore ignore ignore.

captainmummy · 06/04/2012 15:10

Hear hear springy. This is abuse, mental and physical. Don't let it spread to your ds, cut these people out now.

Just because you are related does not give them the right to treat you like this.

maristella · 06/04/2012 15:50

Your responses have made me cry, it's a relief to be understood, thank you x

I wish to god I had cut myself off from them so much earlier, but the poison was different back then.

Saying that, my mother has always used DS to hurt me. She would pick him up for a nice afternoon, then refuse to answer any calls or texts about his return etc, knowing I would get more and more frantic. She would decide where and when he would be returned to me. It felt as if she was with holding my own Ds from me, and wow did I explode.

She just with holds her love and warmth when it suits, as a punishment for whatever it is she perceives that I have done wrong. Usually because she cannot handle that I have control over DS, morally and legally.

It's funny you should say that about moving away; since the latest incident I have thought of little else other than the situation we are in, and how much I would dearly love to move away. I've looked at jobs in areas we would like to go, I've looked at house prices, but have no savings. I'm a social housing tenant, which I had been hoping to change this year, but that it difficult without a perm job. I feel stuck. Moving would give me much greater control over the atmospheres that Ds is exposed to, it is those toxic atmospheres and the emotional abuse that I suffered that lead to me being placed in a hostel by a social worker when I should have been able to live at home, feeling loved and safe. Also to minimise disruption to DS' education we would have to move before September.

OP posts:
maristella · 06/04/2012 15:52

captain that is what I have said to DS: I would never tolerate this treatment from anyone else so I should not allow family members to treat me this way. Unpleasant people treat people badly when they can get away with it, so to vulnerable people or to family members. It's horrible, I would never try to make anyone feel bad about themselves.

OP posts:
RandomMess · 06/04/2012 16:07

I wonder how torn your DS it, he loves them and gets to see their nice side and can't reconcile that with how awful they are to you?

Heyyyho · 06/04/2012 16:55

You sound like a lovely mum. What a difficult situation :(

maristella · 06/04/2012 17:45

Thanks heyyy I'm far from perfect but I try my best for all the right reasons, I just want my DS to be so much happier than I was. He is happier, but the same person who caused my unhappiness is of course making him unhappy.

Random he does see their negative sides, but I worry that he would rather I put up with this because he fears losing a close relationship with my brother. DS' father will not see him, so his relationship with my brother is so important to him.

I had a big chat with DS earlier. I know that my mother and brother will approach DS to start making plans and I have asked DS to ask them to approach me, as I know what our plans are. Then we will have the discussion in which they will either agree to my terms, and go on to meet with DS, or they will disagree. My terms will be that they do not criticise me to DS, or to me in front of DS. If they want to visit it will be on the strict understanding that they are not to criticise me in my home, or they will be asked to leave. I'm going to sound like a right twat having this coversation, but it does need to be said and agreed to.

And I'm going to keep on buying those lottery tickets :)

OP posts:
birthdaygurl · 06/04/2012 17:53

I think thats a good plan and actually you are good, i would tell them to fuck off. Wink

maristella · 06/04/2012 18:01

birthdaygurl I'm not that good, I have effed and jeffed quite a bit over the years. I rarely ask my mother to leave when she starts accusing me of all sorts of petty and ludicrous shit when she's in my house, I tell to get the fuck out of my house! Not when DS is about, though.

OP posts:
birthdaygurl · 06/04/2012 18:02

Haha good they sound horrible.

hathorinareddress · 06/04/2012 18:04

Maristella - I've nothing to say that hasn't been said except I get it from my parents and brother and have very limited contact (saw them today, last saw them at Christmas) and I also have it going on from my ex's family (I have a thread in chat about it).

It's awful

{{hugs}}

springydaffs · 06/04/2012 20:26

I hate to say it but my family have influenced my kids to the extent that, for the timebeing, I have lost them. You can't expect your family not to badmouth you to ds - they will do it, very subtly if you specifically clamp down on them doing it openly.

OP - move! surely you can get social housing in a new location? I would also not let your family know your plans or your new location. Of course, they can contact ds through social media but iiwy I would limit contact as much as possible in every way you can.

Like you, the signs were there but I didn't realise exactly how poisonous my family would be.

maristella · 06/04/2012 23:56

Thanks Hathor it was your thread about toxic relatives that prompted mine :) Sending a hug right back at ya

springy your threads are everything I fear :( I have honestly reached the point of no return with my mother and brother. If I'm ever lucky enough to have another child she will not get a look in. I hope you're doing ok; silly thing to say when I know you must be heartbroken.
It would be quite hard to start again. I have massive anxiety at the moment, and the prospect of being plonked in a big estate makes me cold with fear. I fought so hard to be placed elsewhere after living on an estate went really wrong. I have worked so hard to build up my career (which is transferrable) but I have also built up the max discount on right to buy and was desperatey hoping to buy this year. I'd be gutted if that dream went down the pan. Actually just typing that had me stopping and thinking - I will do some more digging. The place I want to move to has much lower house prices than here... If I was to quit work, relocate, then maybe I could cash in my pension for a deposit; not sure if it would be enough. Sounds loony but I always felt so sad that DS would have nothing to inherit, like my status as single parent would always affect him, that it became such a massive goal for me to buy. I'm busting a gut trying to get straight to do just that.

I had another big chat with DS this evening. My mother has tried calling him. What a fucking surprise! He told me that when he is with mother and brother, he feels that he has to take sides and that they will like and respect him less if he was to stand up for me :( Toxic fucking wankers! I am so angry, and so scared.

Ds said that he will never take sides. I think I have been quite harsh, but I explained that when mother gives me grief (which is often very nasty) my borther will jump in, so my Dad (no longer with mother) will not get involved in a sibling row, and that I am all on my own. I have said that while they love DS, they do not make the sacrifices that a parent makes, and that if he does take sides with them against me he will be shooting himself right in the foot. I didn;t say this to him but if my mother had any inclination to provide care she would have taken me to court by now. DS then said that I am not alone, because I have him and he will never side against me - I'm really crying now...

Basically since a load of shit I had with family over Xmas I have had so many panic attacks, and so many around DS, which is unusual. But I think it was because I sensed he was being pulled in another direction. I know this sounds blooming silly. They have started the process of coming between us, and casting doubt in our loyalty :(

I told DS that I will never hand him over to anyone that I cannot trust. I said that a child's most important relationship is with their parent, and that anyone who tries to damage that relationship cannot be trusted. I have said that I have put up with so much to protect his relationships with family, but now that the damage they are doing is evident things are going to be different.

OP posts:
springydaffs · 07/04/2012 00:27

The abuse has already spread to him re he feels he can't stand up to them or he might lose them. that says that 1. they are badmouthing you and 2. they are emotionally manipulating him. You are his mum, get him out of these poisonous relationships.

I personally don't agree that they love him - people who behave like this aren't capable of love: they are using him. All that shit your mother got up to when he was small: horrendous! My family are poisonous but they didn't do stuff as bad as that - your lot are baaaad imo. Get away! Run! it won't get any better, it will get worse so GET OUT.

Sorry to shout. I hope you can get a transfer somehow. I don't know if there is any literature about toxic families, for your boy to read. I feel very concerned that he has been subjected to this toxicity and is already part of the dynamic: this is so damaging for him.

he sounds great but this shit has to be cut out of your lives, once and for all. It won't be easy but you must find a way to do it. Good luck sweetie ((hug))

springydaffs · 07/04/2012 00:33

btw there will be a dramatic change in your anxiety levels when you get away from them (it's not surprising you're suffering a lot of anxiety at the mo!). You may need some therapy to work through the mountains of shit you've had to put up with - your boy too may need some support somewhere along the line (possibly?). Contact with toxic people leaves a mark ime and imo we need professional support to make sense of it all. xx

springydaffs · 07/04/2012 00:39

Maybe contact Womens Aid tel: 0808 2000 247 to talk through this and your options. You might also talk to a family lawyer - first half hour free (they get through a lot in half an hour!) - just to see what your options are.

maristella · 07/04/2012 00:43

It was horrific when he was very small.

When Ds was a baby he was sat in his highchair in my parents kitchen (before they split up). My mother went ballistic over something and would not allow me back into the kitchen to feed him. Called me a filthy slut and said I was not allowed in her kitchen. Physically barred my way to the kitchen, and I could hear DS start to whimper. His food had bleeped in the microwave, he was waiting for it and he could hear I was upset.
I'm ashamed to say I lost it at her. I didn't touch her but I shouted so loud that the neighbours approached my Dad later in the week to ask if my mother was ok. To those who know us both well, it is unhealthy for me to bring the past up, but I think it is relevent. It is how she woudl behave today if she thought she could get away with it, so she has to take the more subtle, emotionally abusive approach. I hate her, and I don't hate may people, generally reserving hatred for paedophiles, people committing genocide etc

Thank you so much for being there x

OP posts:
izzyizin · 07/04/2012 00:50

As you are in social housing have you investigated the possibility of a mutual exchange with another social housing tenant in an area you wish to live in who is looking to move where you are living now?

If you were to exchange, your right to buy and the years of discount you have built up during your tenancy will transfer with you.

There are internet sites for council/social housing exchanges but do make sure that any property you are interested in is eligible for right to buy as it's my understanding that some housing association tenancies are exempt from the scheme.

springydaffs · 07/04/2012 00:54

great advice izzy - briliant

ah yes maristella - they load the gun, we fire it, everyone crowds around them giving them support, we're cast out as the baddies. got that t-shirt! don't wear it any more! Wink

maristella · 07/04/2012 01:41

Thanks izzy and if you are the same izzy, then thank you also for your support in the past too. I've had a shocking 18 months; thank feck for MN.

It's my understanding that your discount does not transfer with you, it is only with the local authority. I would not only lose my discount, but my job and MY CAR which is paid for thanks to a loan from employers. I have massive panic attacks driving; all since that shit over Xmas, and only when DS is in the car with me do I have them, because I envisage him and my brother sneering about me

OP posts:
maristella · 07/04/2012 01:44

I was just on the phone to WA for advice, told them everything.
I have been offered hostel, and have contact details for people who were abused as children. Fuck. I'm in the categories I always hoped hoped I would never fit. I feel validated, but this already feels massive and I need to make changes. But I'm scared to make them :(

OP posts: