Potential Holiday from Hell

[TherapeuticVino]

Could be long sorry.

I have been married to DH for 15 years and have always had problems with MIL and SIL. SIL has a mild disability which means an operation every 5ish years and day to day issues but she is mentally 100% and works, lives on her own etc. MIL has dedicated her whole life to SIL and woe betide anyone who has a bad word to say about her.

Anyway, MIL sees herself as the head of the household and was very put out when I came along, as was SIL. She dictated where we needed to be every weekend even though we lived in London and they lived an hour away - she would tell us we had accepted invitations to events and were expected there so we couldn't say no - that kind of thing. SIL has always been openly hostile - she used to slam doors in my face but apparently she had behaved like this towards all of DHs gfs so I tried REALLY hard to be friendly and it got a little better. On the rare occasions that we (or other friends or family) have quietly mentioned one of these outbursts MIL has gone MAD and come out fighting - really not nice. Again, there is NO mental disability - she is just used to behaving like this and getting away with it as everyone is too afraid to say anything.

Against my better judgement I agreed to go on holiday with MIL, FIL (who is lovely) and SIL and ours dcs a couple of years ago. Nightmare. SIL was openly rude and abusive, and on one occasion when I mentioned that I had 2 friends who had similar issues to SIL's MIL went MAD that I had dared to "diminish her problems" by saying it was common(!) and went and woke my sons up crying over them and wailing that I would never understand disability.

I have tried REALLY REALLY hard to understand and in 15 years have plastered a smile on my face and NEVER bitten back because I have tried to give them the benefit of the doubt..I DON'T have a disability so maybe I don't know.

Anyway, the problem. This summer FIL is 60 and SIL is 40 and MIL has announced that we're all going away together (with DCs) to stay in a house for a week. I don't know why but after 15 years I've just had enough, I can't do it. It will be another week of being criticised/ignored/whispered about and I just can't bear the thought. I am angry with myself because I feel like I've made a rod for my own back by putting up with this for so long and allowing them to behave like this, but ALL the extended family feel the same (there are endless conversations about how to bring this up) and if anything is said to MIL she will literally cut us off - she threatened to once before.

That might be a blessing except...FIL is lovely. Dh adores him, I adore him and DCs adore him. He would LOVE to spend a week all together and he's not getting any younger... He has always largely ignored MILs behaviour but has said openly recently that he plays golf 5 days a week because he doesn't want to be at home. He also realises that SIL is very difficult but says he tolerates it because he brought her into the world.....

My heart and mind are fighting it out. I want to make FIL happy - he deserves it. SIL will have no celebration for her bday otherwise - she has had friends over the years but has treated them all the way she treats me and at some point and they've moved on. I have suggested that just DH and the kids go but understandably he doesn't want to use a weeks precious holiday apart (he gets very little)

How can I make this work? Or is it just a recipe for disaster?

Thanks for reading.

I think you should go.

There are going to be so many more parties, including a 70th and 50th in 10 years. Use this one to set the tone.

You and hubbie should agree how you are going to deal with things, practise a few phrases, stick together and follow through...

Rules:

1. Reward good behaviour, don't engage with bad -so be polite and cheerful while they are.
2. Short stock phrase with bad behaviour -goodness, that was an unpleasant thing to say/do, I do hope you didn't mean that (calm, play dumb, think Columbo) and WALK away, don't engage in discussion about it. Doesn't matter where, just step out of the situation, take a DC to look out the window, change clothes whatever...you aren't making a scene, you are doing something else...but at the same time demonstrating that bad behaviour will deprive them of your company.
3. 3 strikes and out -so 3 episodes of bad behaviour, responded to as per 2. and its time to go. "Some of the things you have said/done have been upsetting. I'm sure you didnt mean them, however I'm conscious this is causing an atmosphere for your birthday, so we'll go. Enjoy the rest of your holiday." And

GO! Move physically away from any arguement and if needed keep repeating, "I would hate to have an arguement on your birthday holiday. Hope you enjoy the rest if the week". Smile be calm etc...

You and hubbie need to agree on this and communicate with what constitutes a strike, and agree you will follow through and leave. You'll probably have to do this for a couple of family events but they WILL change their behaviour, provided you are calm, consistent and strong. They will be the ones causing a scene. You will be the calm smiling one depriving the bullies of their victim -bullies hate this.

argument! Sorry!

that is excellent advice Glimmer. You sound like a professional!

'think Columbo'. Glimmer, that is genuinely the best piece of advice I've heard all week.

Good God no! Don't go!

Look, FIL clearly isn't stupid. He escapes to the golf course several times a week to escape these vile women so he'll totally understand why you're not going if you explain. Arrange to take him out for a special lunch on his own - as someone else suggested, go and pick him up from the Golf Course if necessary. There's no reason why you can't continue a relationship with him independently of SIL and MIL.

When SIL or MIL mention the holiday again, simply say "No, we won't be coming. I find you and SIL incredibly rude and unpleasant and I choose not to spend time with either of you any more." Say it very calmly and then don't see them any more.

Seriously, these people add NOTHING to your lives and your children should NOT be seeing this sort of behaviour. Do you really want them seeing you treated like absolute shit? They're going to grow up wondering why on earth you act like such a daffodil and don't stick up for yourself - not to mention why your DH doesn't stick up for you!

Playing Columbo gets me through many situations...it's hard to get angry with Columbo ;)

CalamityKate, for all kinds of reasons people just can't walk away from their relatives, even when they really should. Sometimes walking away is as hard as living with it. What I'm suggesting is a change in behaviour which might lead to a better way of living with it, and if adhered to, works. It's really empowering to feel like whatever happens you can always walk away.

I think Glimmers advice would be good if these were normal people. But they're not.

For some reason, they get a kick out of upsetting you. They don't like you. They don't enjoy your company. You exist for their entertainment. You are their outlet for any negative feeling that they've saved up from when they stubbed their toe on that paving slab, or when their favourite jam was out of stock, or when that shop assistant wasn't quite polite enough.

I certainly agree with depriving them of their victim but I think that saying things like "My goodness did you really mean to be that rude" will not result in them changing their behaviour. I think they will leap gleefully upon that sort of remark as yet another opportunity to turn on you.

I think you need to deprive them completely.

CalamityKate, we'll need to agree to disagree, but I would say that "they get a kick out of upsetting you" and "they don't enjoy your company" are contradictory. They enjoy her company BECAUSE they get a kick out of upsetting her. And what I've described is a behavioural approach which works ith all kind of disordered personalities.

Yes, folk should walk away from this crap. But IRL they usually can't.

Isn't there a halfway here? No to the holiday but ok to contact using glimmer berry rules.

My Mother in Law used to be openly rude to me from day1. She refused to come to our wedding and would not let FIL come either. She told DH's siblings not to go, but they defied her and attended. For years she was openly rude and hurtful to me, but I ignored her and actually felt sorry for her. What sort of life does she have, that shegets pleasure/feels the need to be so vile.
She was not important to me, her good opinion was not important to me, so I didn't give a shit what she said, she only showed herself up in front of others especially as I ignored it!
D'you know I ignored it sufficiently and after many years it went away!
Do NOT give them the satisfaction of a reaction, ever.
You do not want to go on holiday with them so just say, We can't go, we've planned something else this year, we will have to catch up with you all to celebrate some other time.
If your FIL sees you both withdrawing somewhat, he will draw his own conclusions, and may be prompted to say/do something.

Just don't be a party to their games, it should be easy to withdraw you don't like them.

Toughen up a bit, and start feeling a bit sorry for them, then the indifference might even come.

Good Luck

God, they sound grim. Actually fairytale Grimm in their awfulness. I want to shout 'boo' hiss' from the sidelines!

TherapeuticCinderallaVino, you have been saintly in putting up with this for 15yrs. In cutting off SIL and MIL it might make future wider family gatherings difficult, so casting GlimmerBerry in the role of fairygodmother, why not go for her approach first, with the option of complete banishment at the second option?

If you were to replay that astonishing SIL rudeness regarding your desert you brought to the family birthday, how would you and dh handle it this time?

Oh, re SIL's SN requiring an op every 5 years, she doesn't have big buniony feet that don's squeeze into glass slippers, does she?

The thing you need to understand about the pudding incident is that your SIL made herself look like a catty bitch in front of all those people.

There was no reason for you to feel anything other than embarrassed for her.

I don't see what is remotely "empowering" about going on a holiday you won't enjoy so you can deal with their "disordered" behaviour.

You owe these rude, bullying fuckers fuck all. Don't go on the holiday and take your FIL out yourselves.

Good point, you should now refer to that incident as "The time SIL embarrassed herself in front of the family" and practise looking sad for her.

oh really don't let your DH use up some of his precious holiday (and therefore family) time to go on a holiday you'll all hate. The weekend option because he 'can't get time off' is a good compromise. Or just don't go. You don't have to have a relationship with these people unless you want too.

I have tried the two strikes thing on my own SIL.

I ignored anything rude she said for years and it made no difference. She has a bullying opinionated personality, so she just made more rude comments the next time. It could be about our housing decisions, the fact we had bought a cat, whether my kids should play out or not in the park, whether we should have paid for my own (broke) sister's dinner at a family event, you name it...she has an opinion.

Finally I started to be rude back, and without delay- maybe not rude, perhaps, but just 'threw the ball back' as it were.

She makes far less of those remarks now, as she feels more exposed that she will be the uncomfortable one. Ignoring her just didn't, she wasnt self aware enough and she took it as a victory.

Oh please tell us what the dessert equivalent of caviar was!!

Thank you so much - had some fab advice, I laughed out loud at practising being "Columbo" - I am totally going to keep that in my head next time I'm around them! And FashionEaster I will practice looking sad for them too - only problem with your theory is that I found my handsome prince and I'm mean to be living happily ever after!!

Right, here's the plan. DH is going to say NO to the holiday at lunch today. It won't work for us, busy at work blah blah blah. He will say we may be able to join them for the weekend. What we're not going to spell out is that this is now dependent on their behaviour. We're going to try the 3 strikes plan and we are both determined that we are going to start calling them both out on EVERY dig they have. It's worth a go - if we try it and it doesn't work then we know there is literally nothing else we can do, but we can't/won't go on as we are. My only reservation is that the next time I see them is in a week at a funeral.....the perfect place for their wailing and histrionics......eek.

talkingnonsense I didn't get away with changing that detail to cover myself did I! It was champagne - I took champagne and MIL announced it would be drunk at the end of the meal with the birthday cake. Hoping that doesn't out me!

Definitely don't go on this holiday. Tell them that you had a miserable time last time and have no intention of subjecting yourself to the same again. Could you and DH take up golf in order to spend time with FIL without SIL & MIL? You have done your best to have a positive relationship with them, but this has only resulted in misery for you and you shouldn't take it any more.

Accepting bad behaviour like this is not helpful to them in the long term. By making it clear that they are behaving unacceptably, you would be doing them a favour. It would do them good tosee some serious consequences of their actions. They will not change their ways as long as people are putting up with them.

Ooh, what a pair pf witches [buangry]

Give us an update when DH comes back, I'll be impressed if he manages to keep to the line after a lifetime of conditioning from them.

Hope it all goes well. It's great that you and dh are plotting how to handle them! Both be prepared for SIL/MIL to allude to the last incident which upset you.

No need to take up golf [shudder], meet FIL at the 19th!

UPDATE: DH did really really well, and they came out with the big guns!

MIL started with the "well it is for 2 very special birthdays" line. I think FIL had really picked up on the fact that DH had phoned SIL re the dessert incident and realised that we had been pushed too far. He told DH that he can name any time, and country and FIL will pay for us all to go for a week all inclusive ("so nobody has to worry about a thing") somewhere the kids can do loads of activities/watersports (which we have done a few times recently and really enjoyed. MIL doesn't swim so obviously not for her benefit!!)

DH was brilliant and said we couldn't commit to anything, work was too busy, he didn't know if it would be possible....basically refused to agree. (The fact that he didn't jump at it will have rung alarm bells with MIL...) FIL then spoke to him when MIL and SIL were out of the room to say that MIL had been very low recently and time with the GCs really cheered her up and it would be very good for her. Brilliantly DH still didn't give in and instead said that he found being around her very difficult at the moment and he thought MIL could really do with some counselling!!!!! FIL didn't disagree but then they came back in the room so we didn't hear his thoughts...

Anyway, DH and I had a long conversation last night about how this will now play out. The thought of being in a foreign country miles from escape and being funded by them makes this TOTALLY impossible for me - there is no escape even if they are vile. The first plan was at least in the UK and we were planning to say "just a weekend maybe.."

The other problem is that any holiday WE want to have will make it clear that we just don't want to go with them. DS1 is learning French and we were planning a week in France - clearly we have the time to go there so will have to explain why they can't come.....

So I think the plan is that we're going to have to tell FIL why it's not going to happen, which DH feels very torn about (understandably). Or persuade him back to the week in the UK plan and say a weekend only.

We're seeing all of them at a funeral in 10 days time so it will be interesting to see what is said then....

Thanks for all your replies!

That sounds like you really did well. I assume the only reason you are even thinking of a weekend is for fil's sake.