Potential Holiday from Hell

[TherapeuticVino]

Could be long sorry.

I have been married to DH for 15 years and have always had problems with MIL and SIL. SIL has a mild disability which means an operation every 5ish years and day to day issues but she is mentally 100% and works, lives on her own etc. MIL has dedicated her whole life to SIL and woe betide anyone who has a bad word to say about her.

Anyway, MIL sees herself as the head of the household and was very put out when I came along, as was SIL. She dictated where we needed to be every weekend even though we lived in London and they lived an hour away - she would tell us we had accepted invitations to events and were expected there so we couldn't say no - that kind of thing. SIL has always been openly hostile - she used to slam doors in my face but apparently she had behaved like this towards all of DHs gfs so I tried REALLY hard to be friendly and it got a little better. On the rare occasions that we (or other friends or family) have quietly mentioned one of these outbursts MIL has gone MAD and come out fighting - really not nice. Again, there is NO mental disability - she is just used to behaving like this and getting away with it as everyone is too afraid to say anything.

Against my better judgement I agreed to go on holiday with MIL, FIL (who is lovely) and SIL and ours dcs a couple of years ago. Nightmare. SIL was openly rude and abusive, and on one occasion when I mentioned that I had 2 friends who had similar issues to SIL's MIL went MAD that I had dared to "diminish her problems" by saying it was common(!) and went and woke my sons up crying over them and wailing that I would never understand disability.

I have tried REALLY REALLY hard to understand and in 15 years have plastered a smile on my face and NEVER bitten back because I have tried to give them the benefit of the doubt..I DON'T have a disability so maybe I don't know.

Anyway, the problem. This summer FIL is 60 and SIL is 40 and MIL has announced that we're all going away together (with DCs) to stay in a house for a week. I don't know why but after 15 years I've just had enough, I can't do it. It will be another week of being criticised/ignored/whispered about and I just can't bear the thought. I am angry with myself because I feel like I've made a rod for my own back by putting up with this for so long and allowing them to behave like this, but ALL the extended family feel the same (there are endless conversations about how to bring this up) and if anything is said to MIL she will literally cut us off - she threatened to once before.

That might be a blessing except...FIL is lovely. Dh adores him, I adore him and DCs adore him. He would LOVE to spend a week all together and he's not getting any younger... He has always largely ignored MILs behaviour but has said openly recently that he plays golf 5 days a week because he doesn't want to be at home. He also realises that SIL is very difficult but says he tolerates it because he brought her into the world.....

My heart and mind are fighting it out. I want to make FIL happy - he deserves it. SIL will have no celebration for her bday otherwise - she has had friends over the years but has treated them all the way she treats me and at some point and they've moved on. I have suggested that just DH and the kids go but understandably he doesn't want to use a weeks precious holiday apart (he gets very little)

How can I make this work? Or is it just a recipe for disaster?

Thanks for reading.

Being cut off sounds as if it would be a blessed relief.

Ok your dh's & family have allowed his mother and sister to behave appallingly for years but there's no reason why you shoukd have to put up with it or expose your children to it.

I'm the mother of a severely disabled child and weirdly enough don't think it gives me the right to behave appallingly to those around me. SIL's disability is a total red herring - if MIL is still dining out on it where her dd is SN fault living independently then she's bonkers.

I honestly would have nothing to do with them. If you go somewhere ith them and they start just walk away and find someone pleasant to talk to. As you have said they're not going to change but you can make it clear that you will not tolerate their bad behaviour and you will only engage with them if they are reasonable.

Oh ruddy iPad 'when her dd is working and living independently' god knows how it mangled that to gobbledigook

I think you don't have to confront them.

You simply say (trusty MN phrase) 'that doesn't work for us'

Let them kick off, let them rant and rave. And keep repeating the phrase, over and over.

Refuse to engage. Detach detach detach. Let the chips fall as they may. Enough is enough.

You (both) can do this. You do this once, it's easy to keep doing. Get the book Toxic Parents too (is tjat the right titl?, correct me if I'm wrong)

Also your DH $ay benefit from taking a look at the stately homes thread.

Long story short? Exposing your children to this is deeply harmful. Stop all of this for them if nothing else. But you MUST stop it.

Sorry, posting on phone, not had me first coffee yet either...

The whole 'guilt' thing with regard to the disability is nothing to do with the actual disability and everything to do with your MIL s personality, psyche and the way she has manipulated the situation almost for her own gain. But then I think that, really, you know this.

Of course disability affects people in different ways and guilt can be a part of that, but this woman has defined her life and behaviour by it.

My child has an obvious disability that will significantly affect his life - do I let this define us? No. Do I use this in any way to make people change their behaviour/attitude around us? God, no, the thought actually horrifies me.

They both sound horrendous and I agree with other posters that it's time to take a stand. Don't go, explain why, take fil out on his own somewhere else. Don't feel guilty! It's entirely her issue and she's been allowed to get away with it far too long.

What did she do that humiliated you?

You have the right to stick up for yourself, even if its at a party. Just make sure you do it quietly and relatively politely so that you don't look like the bad guy. Perhaps a "speaking to me like that is unacceptable, do stop it won't you" with a smile. If they then start screaming like mad women they will only make themselves look like fools.

I know what you mean, it difficult when there is a house full of people, who wants to do such a thing in front of an audience.

Im guessing you have a strong sense of what's appropriate (unlike your in laws), I've had similar, my mil asked me for a favour in the middle of a social gathering, a favour which it was impossible for me to do due to the fact i was having an operation the next day and i had to say no. She then started sulking and stropping. You see the favour would have allowed her to drink that night! Everyone was looking and what i really wanted to do was tell her to stop behaving like a baby and explain to everyone the reason why i couldn't help, but because it was a social event i didn't feel i could say a word in case it ruined everyones night.

I should have said something though because i came out of it looking like the bad guy. My sil took the opportunity to make herself look good, like she always does, with a "well you know I would help you if i wasn't taking that elderly lady shopping . . . " whilst giving me the look!

What did they want me to do . . . Cancel my operation!? Just so that my mil could get pissed!

I just left but its pissed me off ever since.

Been there and done that. It will end up with a showdown, things will be said and done on both sides. Disability or not, she is an out-and-out bully and the fact that she uses her disability to get her own way is reprehensible.
Dump her and see FIL on his own.

I certainly would not go.
I understand you want to conisder your fil, but frankly, he stands by while you are treated like dirt and does nothing, so as much as he might be lovely, I don't think he's lovely enough to waste a week of holiday from Hell on.

The mil and sil sound ghastly, rude, immature, jealous, self centred and controlling.....and nothing on this earth could persuade me to spend a week in their company being picked on and diminished.

Your fil should not expect you to put up with any of it. If he wants to minimise their horrendous behaviour that is up to him....HE can go on holiday with the pair of hags!

Don't go. You and your DH sit with MIL and SIL and explain to them why not. Leave as soon as any shouting, crying or other emotional abuse starts.

Start going to golf with your FIL! Or if you can't stand the game what sane person can? meet him at his club and take him to lunch/dinner, as often as you want to and can.

genuine question. why do your mil and sil WANT you to come? you sound lovely and patient beyond the call of duty.... but i think you are letting dh and fil off the hook here. it's not your place to tell their mother / wife how to behave in a civilised fashion... they have let this go on for 15 years!! how is the relationship between dh /fil? they should be presenting a united front. it'stime to say enough is enough imo. poor you. i had the mil from hell. it was miserable.

I suspect they 'want' her to come, simply because they feel she should do as she is told.
It's obviously not about enjoying her company or spending quality time together. They fully expect her to come away for a week and take whatever they see fit to dish out, simply because they have decided she will.
And for all intents and purposes, the fil agrees with them.

Why do they want me to go? Excellent question. I'm guessing they really just want the DCs to go although I think there's a big element of "covering" that SIL won't be having a big party (I can imagine lots of, "oh we're just going to have a quite week away with the family - that's what she wants".) This is compounded by the fact that DH was 40 last year and I threw him a huge party - we never do that and I really went for it so it was a big deal. (MIL and SIL looked like they were sucking on a wasp all night....and hilariously when DH drunkenly got up on a chair at the end of the night and made a "speech" thanking me and my best friend for all our hard work MIL shouted "what about me??" She lives 2 hours away and had NOTHING to do with organising the party.....)

Re the latest humiliation, don't want to out myself but I took a "luxury" dessert item to the 80yo's party - she has always been like a close granny to me and was going into the home the next week so we were trying to make the last gathering in her own place really special. SIL saw me put it in the kitchen with the other food and after the main course had been cleared she started saying how the food item was over-rated. I looked a bit shocked given that she'd seen I'd bought it, and she then went round the dinner table asking all of the guests individually whether they liked it. They had no idea that I had bought some, and there were lots of "well, I prefer other things" and "No, I wouldn't choose to have that'"s until she delightedly said "Well bad luck, we've all got to have some now as TV has bought some!" Cue embarrassed silence from the whole table.....followed by grovelling "Mmmmm well this one is LOVELY"s from various nice people trying to make me feel better (but making me feel worse!!)

I know that I can't go, I think that much has become obvious...

Your Dh has clearly learned at his father's knee not to rock the boat. Tough. He needs to back you up, and if you say he already does he needs to do it more, harder.

I can't comprehend how you are being dictated to about how you spend previous holiday time and money. "no" is a complete sentence. Practice. Like most bullies they will crumble when you stand up to them - not hysterically, not emotionally, just calmly and firmly.

I agree with whoever suggested starting to use "That won't work for us" and do not engange in further discussions with them over it. Remember no is a complete sentence.

They like you being there to be the but of their nastiness and make themselves feel superior to you. Perhaps there is a lot of jealousy that you got lovely dh and produced the grandchildren and MIL cannot control that?

But why, why would you let her ask everyone at the dinner table if they liked the pudding, as soon as she mentioned it then you should have shot her down.

You need to get tough, if they are rude then tell them so, if they make a show of themselves then so be it.

Do not go on the holiday, tell them exactly why, in fact it's your DH family so he should tell them why.

Yes, I agree with Fannyfifer.

Draw your line in the sand, state that you will have no more part of this. Neither will your DH, or your DC, and that is that. Call them out on their rudeness.

"It doesn't work for us."

Followed by "how RUDE!" to every stunt they pull.

I agree with the comment too about telling FIL that there will always be a place with you for him should he ever need it. Poor bugger.

I agree Fannyfifer.

You and DH need to pulling them up everytime they are rude to you.

Make a plan with dh that you will come straight home if either of them throw a tantrum.

I know it's difficult but is there any way you could just IGNORE them. They are deliberately trying to upset you and will be so pleased they succeeded at the dinner party - you crying in the car on the way home = result! DH phoning = drama! It all adds up to - attention!

If you shrugged your shoulders or laughed at them you would spoil their little games. Or give NO reaction at all - they will hate that. Whenever they start just tell yourself it's THEIR problem and nothing to do with you at all. They would be nasty to anyone that DH picked as a partner by the sound of it. It's not personal. Easier said than done - but it works! They are pushing your buttons - find out what they are and work on them so that you cannot be triggered.

Maybe it's time to set a few boundaries - either they behave or you don't show up and stop going along with plans they make for you. I know the habit has been set but time to wean them off that behaviour. Just pick one time to have already made other plans and refuse and gradually build it up. Life is too short for this nonsense - as you say holidays are precious and should be relaxing or what's the point of going? MIL might have set herself up as the head of the family but you don't have to go along with it. Explain to FIL and make alternative arrangements to see him in future.

Read up on narcissistic mothers as it sounds like that is what you are dealing with.

I can't believe that I let the "dessert" episode unfurl like that...it was like a slow motion car crash as I tried to work out how to intervene without it escalating...sadly DH was in the kitchen at the time preparing said dessert..... urgh it was horrible.

You're all right and it's time the worm turned. DH is taking the kids over there tomorrow for an Easter lunch and I'm at another event so it will be the first time in ages they've had him to themselves. The subject of the holiday will come up and I think it's a great opportunity for us to start the "no" process when I'm not even there to be blamed (although obviously they'll find a way!). MIL in particular will be looking for him to commit to it as he would always have done in the past...he is adamant that he won't be bullied into it so it will be interesting to see what happens.

Thanks for all your comments and sorry to those of you who have been through the same - it sucks!

Meant to add, I think DH has always toed the line with MIL but again has spent his entire childhood being told that he's the lucky one as he isn't disabled - years of hearing that has undoubtedly affected him and he doesn't find it easy to square up to SIL. I'm sure a lot of this is about jealousy. DH and I are a very happy couple with lovely kids, lovely home and lovely friends. We are very lucky to have a happy, stress-free life and MIL seems to need to constantly "even things up" - putting down DH's achievements at work (she completely ignored him being made MD of his last company and didn't tell ANYONE or even say well done) while we all have to ooh and aah when SIL gets a new work uniform... I think putting me/us down all the time seems to "even things up" in her mind somehow..... but they are both her sons!!

I would say to MIL that you don't really think it's a good idea to all stay together for the whole week as holidaying with family rarely goes well and after last time you don't want to run the risk of rubbing one another up the wrong way.

Then go down for a day, or overnight or maybe two nights max, so you can be with FIL for his birthday party, then leave. Or have your own separate accommodation not too close by, and just agree to meet up with them a few times over the course of the holiday.

Why on earth didn't you just laugh at the first negative reaction and say, 'oooh tough luck, I've bought one!'. I can't believe anyone would just sit there for fifteen years!

DH has to be primed, when over at Easter lunch say "oh, by the way mum, I know you were going to try to arrange a holiday for us all but we're not going to be able to make it, no way I'm going to be able to get any time off work that month, big project at work round then."

The thing is reading back, she's threatened to cut you off, but hasn't actually done it? And your DCs are the only grandchildren? Risk it, she'll huff and puff for a while, but then will have to back down if she wants to see them. If she doesn't care enough to see them, then wouldn't it just be easier to let her cut you off?

oh yes, he could add in, "but we could come down just for the weekend."