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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Male/female friendship dilemma - WWYD?

50 replies

dilemmarama · 05/04/2012 16:48

Namechanged for this, btw. Sorry it's so long!

I left my last job 3 years ago, but have remained close friends with 3 former colleagues there - 2 female, 1 male. The male is like a brother to me. We hit it off right from when he interviewed me (he's the HR manager) and have always had loads in common. It's definitely an "intellectual chemistry", not physical/sexual, but we're on the same wavelength, have extremely similar worldviews and experiences. I can talk to him about anything and he's one of a handful of friends in this area I know I could always count on, no matter what...

4 years ago, he was a huge support to me in leaving my violent, abusive ex. He provided moral support, but also lent me money when I was struggling and both he and my boss were absolutely fantastic about supporting me through the whole thing. There has never been anything untoward between us. No physical contact and no emotional affair. Nothing. Just a great friendship.

We would occasionally have lunch together next to the office (often with other colleagues around, so not sneaking around or anything, as we had nothing to hide) and whenever he had a meeting in my building (or viceversa), we'd take 10 minutes to grab a coffee in the break room together (I was in a managerial position, so no pb taking a break). Again, almost always with other people around. Sometimes during quiet periods, we'd chat on the phone or via e-mail, but once again, nothing intimate or inappropriate. Pretty similar to my female friends really. Occasionally he would reply to his emails from home, but I never used his personal e-mail address or phone number, just the professional ones.

However, one weekend (the day after I had my ex arrested for battery!) I had an irate phone call from his wife, telling me to stay away from her husband and that he had no business communicating with female colleagues outside of work. That she'd already been through one divorce and didn't want to go through all that again, so she was very wary of her husband having friendships with women!

So I backed off! I didn't want to cause any trouble for him so even though we remained friends, I made sure that we only ever saw each other as part of a group. And was careful only to chat to him during working hours. Since I've left the firm, we've met up for lunch 3 times in 3 years, had coffee twice when I popped into the firm for administrative stuff and exchanged e-mails every few weeks.

Last night he called me, quite distraught, to tell me his marriage is pretty much over (second marriage for both of them, married for around 8-9 years and they have 5 kids between them). They're living separate lives under the same roof and barely speaking to each other. He sounded really down and said he needed to share it with someone as he's not coping well.

He wants to meet me for lunch next week, but herein lies my dilemma:

  • on the one hand he has been a good friend to me over the past 6 years and supported me through some pretty tough times and I feel I owe it to him to support him now it's his turn to be struggling.
  • but, on the other hand, if his wife is spying on him, I don't want here thinking I'm somehow involved in any separation/split. I'd hate her to think I'm the "OW" (which women automatically seem to assume is the case when a man wants to separate), and I don't want her naming me in a divorce case for adultery, when that's obviously not true.

So what should I do? Meet him for lunch and give him the support he needs, or stay out of the way to avoid making things worse for them? I'm just so torn and I need objective opinions from the wise women of MN... WWYD?

OP posts:
puds11 · 05/04/2012 16:50

He is your friend and he needs you, i would throw caution to the wind and meet up with him. If you dont he may hold it against you, and at the end of the day his friendship means more than his wifes opinion of you

RatDesPaquerettes · 05/04/2012 16:53

I would meet him. He was a good friend to you in your hour of need and you should do the same for him now. On top of that, if he ends up separating from his wife, you will also be able to resume your friendship.

Flightty · 05/04/2012 16:56

Does he know his wife contacted you?

I think this is relevant. If not perhaps you ought to tell him so that he knows you're in a difficult position...haven't thought that through though so just putting it out there.

springaroundthecorner · 05/04/2012 17:01

I would meet him too. It is very valuable to have a friend of the opposite sex when going through a separation. It is a different perspective. He was there for you in the past and you can repay the kindness.

Like Flightty says be cautious about the wife. I would definitely tell him to be careful.

dilemmarama · 05/04/2012 17:03

Thanks. Yes, flightty he knows his wife contacted me. He told me she was very possessive and jealous and he understood completely when I chose to put some distance between us after that. I have never met her.

I think her jealousy is one of the big issues in their marital problems, tbh. She is very controlling and he is very much a "people pleaser".

OP posts:
freeforall · 05/04/2012 17:03

Hmm. He's you friend and he needs you, but are you absolutely sure that his feelings for you are the same as yours for him?

I have been the "OW" in this situation and his wife was absolutely right, although I was oblivious at the time.

Has he told his wife he'll be seeing you? Even if things between them aren't great, they are still married and I wouldn't want to spend time with any married man in secret, after my previous experience.

Puds does the friendship mean more than his wife's feelings/opinion?

Flightty · 05/04/2012 17:08

I'm also unsure about his motives for contacting you. What exactly can you provide in this situation? He knows his wife doesn't like you being around him. I doubt that meeting you can have any positive impact on the marriage, well, if she knows that's where he is - but she may not and his not telling her is another thing.

it's such a minefield. But at the end of it, what is he expecting you to do about his/their marriage?

freeforall · 05/04/2012 17:12

BTW, I'm not sure his wife would see "exchanging emails every few weeks" as backing-off!

Not saying you've done anything wrong, but wives are always accused of being possessive and jealous when they have just cause for concern. I wonder if his wife realises the marriage is over and they're living separate lives under one roof?

If their marriage is in trouble and any feelings he may have or she thinks he may have for you are an issue in that, then meeting him is not the right thing to do for your friend. I know it feels like it is and it's nice to be needed, but it won't help.

dilemmarama · 05/04/2012 17:13

Free, he's never tried anything on with me in the 6 years we've been friends, but I guess with men you never know, lol.

I don't think he'll have told her he's asked me to meet up for lunch, especially if they're not speaking. But you have summed up my dilemma perfectly :)

OP posts:
OldLadyKnowsNothing · 05/04/2012 17:19

He is your friend. Has he lied to you in the past? Why would he be lying now, to try to get into your knickers? Confused

Some people have a very low view of men. There is evidence the wife is a jealous controller.

Of course you should offer as much support as you can.

dilemmarama · 05/04/2012 17:20

it's such a minefield. But at the end of it, what is he expecting you to do about his/their marriage?
I think he just needs moral support! I certainly did when I left my marriage!
And I think I'm one of his only friends around here, as his wife doesn't allow him to see anyone outside of work (other colleagues, including my former (male) boss, have mentioned this)!

BTW, I'm not sure his wife would see "exchanging emails every few weeks" as backing-off
I think we've each sent 4 or 5 mails in the past year, just catching up, nothing personal or intimate. And it's over 18 months since I last saw him in person! Not sure how much more I could have backed off without ending the friendship altogether!

OP posts:
LadyClariceCannockMonty · 05/04/2012 17:25

You sound as though you trust yourself that he's 'just' a friend (although I hate using that word; friendships are so much more than 'just ' implies). If you're confident about this, go and meet him, offer support, make him laugh, be a friend.

I hate how male-female friendships often attract so much suspicion.

freeforall · 05/04/2012 17:26

Oldlady, dilemma does know he's been lying to his wife for years though.

Sorry dilemma, maybe I'm projecting but this is so much like what happened to me. Presumably she doesn't know about the occasional coffees or regular emails? (you said every few weeks, which is it?) Doesn't matter what the content is, it's the deceit that counts, at least that's what everyone would be saying if his DW had posted.

dilemmarama · 05/04/2012 17:27

No, oldlady, I don't think he's ever lied to me. He's a very honest, straightforward, gentle person.

I had lunch with one of the 2 female friends I mentioned from the same firm (the other has since moved to a different site, abroad) the other day and she told me she was worried about him, and thought he was having problems in his private life. I had been planning to call him to see if everything was OK when he called me.

This friend also lives near to him and his wife and seems to corroborate what he's told me. I haven't told her about the phone call (and she doesn't know about the call from his wife 4 years ago, either).

OP posts:
TheSecondComing · 05/04/2012 17:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SkinnedAlive · 05/04/2012 17:29

I think it's very, very sad that you feel can't support your friend. Both of you know it is a platonic friendship, but I can see it would cause problems if his wife found out. At the end of the day it is his decision who he has as his friends, whether male, female, stright, gay or whatever. But if his wife is going to start calling you and harrassing you if she finds out you have had a simple lunch, then that makes it a problem for you and you have to look after yourself.

I feel for you OP. If he is a good friend he should be able to understand if you feel you have to say 'no' - particularly as she has called you before. However I can also understand why he would feel very let down as he was there for you in a bad situation. No easy answer :(

OldLadyKnowsNothing · 05/04/2012 17:30

Free, does she? I've re-read her posts and can't see where she says her friend has been lying to hus wife for years. Genuine Confused

I had a male friend like this, he was friends with Dh too. New girlfriend insisted we had no further contact. Lost the friend, would still welcome him back if he contacted us needing help.

freeforall · 05/04/2012 17:32

Well, OldLady, is it likely the wife knows about the occasional coffees and regular emails?

pinktrees · 05/04/2012 17:36

I would meet up with him, he's been a good friend to you, hopefully you can be a good friend to him.

Personally, I would meet up in a public place because his wife is going to be very suspicious. That way, if she is spying/following, she'll see it's all platonic.

The only other caution I would add is he may perhaps be in love with you, regardless of the fact that you have always behaved properly etc. You might be the OW in his mind.

Also to add that it is rare for men to leave marriages without there being an OW on the scene. I believe this is statistically true, rather than just man bashing! Either an established affair or just fancying someone. Just be aware you might be that someone he fancies.

Give him the benefit of the doubt, meet up and help him. But just be aware of the possibilities.

dilemmarama · 05/04/2012 17:37

I'm not a husband-stealing man-eater! I have other male friends, although not local, but there's never been any problem with them and I get on well with their wives. One even asked me to be a witness at their wedding!

second coming his wife actually sounds similar to my ex, in that she doesn't allow him to have friends outside of work. They spend all their free time together or with their respective kids. Like I said, other friends have also commented on this!
I've managed to rekindle plenty of old friendships since my divorce, but for the 11 years I was married I hardly had any contact with anyone :(

OP posts:
catsareevil · 05/04/2012 17:39

Meet up with him. His marriage and wife are his business and he needs to make the decisions about that, not you.

fussbucket · 05/04/2012 17:40

I'd have lunch with my friend and take a box of hankies, or whatever the male equivalent is, and sod the wife. I've got a very dear male friend, and did this when his relationship broke up. His ex rang me in a state of drunken fury, which was unpleasant and upsetting as she absolutely refused to believe that her ex could be friends with a woman without being in a relationship with her. I just hung up in the end as there's never any point in arguing with a drunk. That was 14 years ago, today my friend is still my friend and the ex is long disappeared from all our lives.
There are certain differences in my situation in that she was in a completely different part of the country and although she knew my name and had found my phone number, she had no idea where I lived, so I wasn't at risk of her turning up on the doorstep. I was also living happily with my DP; you haven't mentioned a current relationship.

StillSquiffy · 05/04/2012 17:41

Your loyalty is to him, not her.

He is in charge of managing his relationship with his wife, it's not your problem to fix.

I would never forgive myself if I didn't help put a friend in need, regardless of fallout that might occur.

dilemmarama · 05/04/2012 17:41

Thanks pinktrees. I'm leaning towards that solution right now - lunch in a very public place near his office, so it's obvious there's no sneakiness going on.

I'll also be vigilent and make sure things stay platonic! Thank you for that warning.

OP posts:
OldLadyKnowsNothing · 05/04/2012 17:42

Free, why would the wife need to know? And if she's the type to go ballistic, I can quite understand why he wouldn't tell her. If she asked, "Did you meet OP for coffee?" and he said "no", that would be lying. Ommitting to tell her, to keep the peace, is not lying. And I'd say the same if the sexes were the other way round.

Can be doing with people who seek to control every second of someone else's life.