Help with my Mum...please!

[Threelittleducks]

I am 27 years old with two ds and am married, have been for 3 years now.

My mum raised my sister and I after my dad walked out on us when I was about 3 years old. My mum gave up work to look after us and survived on a mixture of state benefits and help from my dgps.

My GPs were the heads of the family and kept us all together. My grandad passed away about 8 years ago after a long illness (depression), my nana died a couple of years ago at a ripe old age after a short illness.

My mum was my gp's carer for about 11 years - not in the needing to intimately care for them sense, but she was the person who drove them to hospital appointments, sorted out any appointments, bills etc and kept their house nice, took my nan out once a day - stuff like that.

My nan bought my mum a car which she could run around in (it was her car, but it was for her to take my nan to wherever she wanted/needed to go - my nan kept it MOT'd, insured, petrol etc)
My mum recieved carer's allowance, income support, housing benefit during this time.

When my nan died 2 years ago, her estate was divided 4 ways between her children (including my mum).
Her other 3 children have done quite well in life - one is a top nurse, one is living the high-life abroad, the other is raising his family in a lovely estate, can go on nice hols, latest gadgets etc etc.

Effectively when my nan died my mum was left with not very much (my nan wasn't especially wealthy. Any money she received from the estate was spent on getting the next year car insurance, road tax for this bloody car). One of my uncles and his wife have helped her out enormously - bought her carpets for her new flat when she moved, even gave her his share of the money they recieved from my nan.

My mum hasn't worked for the last 25 years, so what happened when my nan died? Her benefits were taken off her and she ended up on jobseekers.
Which was a hell of a lot less than she was used to getting.
Fair enough. At the start she seemed willing to work.
She got a couple of interviews, but was knocked back every time. Which was when she stopped trying.
Her self esteem is pretty low anyway - years of just us and my nan for company haven't done her good. She is, shall we say, a rather large lady (which sadly, is something she is instantly judged on by everybody). This bothers me - she is straight out lazy and does over eat when given the chance. She will actually never exercise - not even a little bit. I am really ashamed to say that I am embarrassed for her - which is shocking and awful, but well, here I am pouring it out on the internet now, so I might as well keep being honest.

She's always been big, but never this big and she's flat out given up. I can see how debilitating it is for her - but she won't do anything about it.
Anyone who broaches the subject with her gets a load of abuse back.

Anyway, she went to college to do a care course, which I am proud of her for doing - she is a 55 year old woman going into a class of 17 year olds! Great! I give her loads of encouragement for it. She seems to really enjoy it, it gives her purpose, direction etc. The only thing is, any time anything goes financially wrong for her (her car needing an MOT, her not being able to pay her rent) she almost threatens me with it 'I'm going to HAVE give up my course'.

She refuses to work during this course though, which has led to her trying to survive on the basic college bursary (which I have pointed out to her many times that students supplement with a part-time job!) She has been to hardship more times than I can count. I have bailed her out loads with car insurance, bill money etc (we can barely afford to pay our bills!!) She has argued with the college finance department that what she is getting isn't enough for her to live on. I've had arguements with her - SHE NEEDS T GET A FUCKING JOB!!!! But she just says - 'I keep applying, but there's nothing out there'.

I am currently applying for jobs too and am getting interviews. People I know are getting interviews. They are getting jobs! She's not applying!! All she is doing is sitting on her ass at my house all day drinking juice and flicking through brainless daytime tv!!

She doesn't want to work!

She keeps running this car, which is now due it's MOT and I'm getting all the guilt trip about how she can't afford it, how she thinks she should give up her course if she can't get to it because of her car....

She had her housing officer up last night. They are taking her to court because she can't afford to pay what she owes them.

She's been wangling to move into my house for ages now, and this is how she's going to do it!

I can't live with her - I just can't! We can barely afford to feed 2 adults and 2 kids as it is, plus the house needs lots of work which we are struggling to pay for - she has no means of paying her way and will leech off us for as long as possible.

My god, she's my mum and I love her and I| wouldn't see her homeless or anything, but why is she doing this? Why can't she just get herself sorted? Why am I left with it all? I literally haven't slept for worrying about her. I'm fucking exhausted and fed up with it all.

She's always had everything on a plate (even if she thinks she hasn't - my grandparents helped us out A LOT, in a way I never have. Fuck, I started work at 13 years old so I could buy my own school uniform!)

This isn't probably even making any sense, and well done if you read this far.
I need help.
And I needed to get it all out.
I feel like running the fuck away!!!

Have you considered that she might be depressed? If her father suffered, it's not unheard of for it to run in families. Even if it's not genetic she's had a rough life. Caring for her children and then her parents was her world and, when you moved on and they died, she went through bereavement and effectively redundancy at the same time. There is a lot of age discrimination and the economy isn't all that buoyant so being 55 and looking for your first job in 24 years isn't easy. If her confidence is low, it'll be even harder. If she has no partner to turn to for support she's trying to motivate herself solo.

So 'getting herself sorted' is not as easy as it sounds. She's making a stab at it but is it any wonder she gets discouraged and feels like giving up? You're going to have to intervene more... help her fill out applications, accompany her to interviews or get her appointments at the Job Centre. See if there are any extra benefits she could claim through Turn2Us perhaps. And do consider if she'd benefit from seeing a GP.

I fully understand why you don't want her to live with you, stand firm and say no as often as needed, it would be such a bad idea to let her move in.

Can CAB help?

Has she tried applying for jobs with elderly people who need company and a lift places?

i really do understand your frustration and i see that you do love your mum but, i think you could do a couple of things to help her - in my area the WA centre runs a course on self esteem, i have met several women who have been on it and the difference it has made to them is astounding, perhaps you could encourge her to look for the same sort of course? also, i can understand your mum being terrifed of looking for work, at her age and with her lack of experience she must feel daunted and pretty hopeless - are there any schemes in your area that help with cv writing and general presentation skills? perhaps you could look into that and maybe even attend one together? (im not assuming you need help, just as company for your mum) anything really just to boost her self confidence! i know this all seems very hard on you but you sound like a nice person and i reckon you can manage! one thing though, be very straight with her, tell her in no uncertain terms that moving in with you is not an option! she is far too young to do that, it wouldnt be good for your marriage or your family right now, tough i know, but you have to put your responsiblity for your dh and dcs first over this!

good luck!

I understand where you are coming from, BUT I also understand where your mum is.

You are quite right not to expect to be hand holding your mum. It's as though the roles have become reversed - often does with single mum-daugther relationships - and you are being expected to do the parenting, provide the support both financial and emotional and sort your mums life out when she doesn't seem inclined to do it herself.

Your mother has had some hard knocks in life though and probably has incredibly low self esteem and no confidence in her abilities - which you don't if you have never stretched yourself in life. You kind of forget what you can do and focus on what you can't. She is probably also suffering from depression long-term ongoing functional depression.

This is why so many people get trapped on benefits: there is a lot of internal emotional stresses preventing people from taking control of their lives again and it really isn't just about pushing people back into work.

She has no husband and as you do have a functional nuclear home, my guess is she will look to you to not just support her and take her in, but provide companionship and friendship, make her feel better, and other things. So you do have to put the breakers on somewhere as you can't be expected to do that. Once shes in your house she'll probably not leave and if you try and make her leave you will be the bad guy.

I suggest you speak to her doctor and explain your concerns about poss. depression. Can you speak to her housing officer regarding her home? Whatever you do, put your foot down and don't let her move in. Don't let her stay even for the night. She might drag it out and not leave.

What does your husband say?

I feel sad for her as i am sure you do but i don't think you bailing her out is going to help her in the long run. You can't afford to give her money so don't. Make it clear though that if she doesn't sort out a way to pay her bills and she gets evicted then she won't be moving in with you. I know that would be hard to say, but you don't want her living there and if she moves in you'll never get her out. Personally id find it a strain on my marriage.

Blunt talk is needed. She's always been able to rely on her parents but now she needs to rely on herself. Tell her that!

Obviously if she is depressed encourage her to see the Dr.

She's not old so there is no need for you to become HER carer. Don't feel guilty about that. You have your own life to lead.

I am sorry you are going through this.
Firstly weather she wants to hear it or not and weather you are going to have her getting mouthy with you you are going to have to tell her that there is NO WAY she will be moving in with you even if she becomes homeless, she will have to go to a hostel.

Also ask her to consider going to her GP about her weight and possible depression.
Stop letting her sit on her fat backside at your house.
Also can you speak to her siblings and see if they can take some of the load off of you.
Simple tell her that if she has to give up her course then so be it, really do you think she is going to use it to get a job? It is just another way for her to avoid going to work.

has she told housing benefit about her reduced income? they should increase their help with rent if she is worse off now. I guess as she has a housing officer she is in housing association or council housing? if so she could offer whatever she can afford to reduce rent arrears - even if's £5 a week - and it's very likely they would accept that, if she talks to them. she could go to local advice centre/CAB etc, and they could help her do this if needed.

Thanks all.
She has been depressed before and been on meds for it. She suffered from it when I was about 17. We had some really bad shouty arguements and in the end I had to leave home - she wasn't good to live with. She has a woe-is-me complex which was amplified (understandably) when she is depressed.
She blamed everything on me though, as I was the oldest. It was a really tough time for all three of us and I suppose something which has left me a bit psychologically scarred, which has taken me this long to realise. At one point she met some rather strange folk on the internet and went on holiday. Her best friend at the time phoned my house when she was due to come back and told me not to expect her home. We seriously thought she'd run away.

I know she's had a tough time of it, I know. She knows and alerts us to this fact every time there's a barrier.
My sister has successfully distanced herself under the guise of being too busy with her nursing course. There's loads of issues there too. My mum sees herself in my sister - she's the spit of her at that age and the nursing is something they have in common (mum worked as a nurse assistant before my dad left.)

Mums siblings have a funny relationship with her. My auntie and uncle have no four what its like for any of us here, and nor do they want to. They dip in and out but generally just keep it to niceties.
My other uncle is not q nice guy and him and my mum have never ever gotten on. Mutual hatred.
My other uncle has an amazing wife who tries her best with my mum. She's given her so many legs up. Her latest is to fund her 20 quid a week.
Which relieves me. But makes me mad at my mum. If she's getting this 20 every week, why the hell isn't she putting it straight into the rent?

My mum has habitually, as long as I can remember always done this. Phone companies, gas and electric, shopping catalogues, anyone she borrows money from - she doesn't pay it.
When I wad younger I had the same mentality as her because itvwas all I knew, but now I'm so angry about it - I'm not exactly well off but I always always pay my bills, or make arrangements to.

I know she's struggling, I know she's had it hard, but she won't do anything to help herself.

Dh is great, he found me some numbers for her to phone. Which I'll give to het. And she won't phone. And then I'll say ill phone. And then she'll get annoyed and angry about.
I can't win.

I'm so tired. So exhausted. And upset. And fed up of it all.
I feel so pressured. There's so much going on at the moment and I wish I had a mum to turn to and cry on.
Sometimes I really need a mum :(

Oh god, I'm so upset now! Trying to think of the last time I was mothered.
I've been through 2 lots of post natal depression in the last 3 years, moved house 3 times, been through all kinds of shit with my absent dad and his family, had some crazy in-law stuff to deal with and mothered my mum through all kinds of stuff all the while.

I need a break.
Why can't she just sort herself out for a bit and leave me alone?
Oh I'm horrible, aren't i?
I don't mean it, I'm just so tired and upset.
It's like finally sitting down and thinking about it all has opened some kind of flood gate. Have to stop crying now - she's coming over at 11 to pick up her dog!

"Sometimes I really need a mum "

I'm sorry but that's not how it works. You're an adult, not a child and you have a mum but she is struggling with problems. You can't 'do it for her' and I can understand that it is frustrating if you think she isn't making an effort, but there's no need to be unkind just because she's not quite the ideal mum and is falling short of your expectations. You don't have to do all this alone, of course. The rest of the family were quite happy when she was looking after their elderly parents and they have to take some responsibility for her welfare. Put some pressure on them to help.

All the time you bail her out she will keep relying on you to keep doing it.
Set the boundaries, she is a grow woman and needs to behave like one

Cogito, its a perfectly valid feeling.
And on a forum like this I feel I can talk openly about how I feel. I'm not saying it to het face! That's the point!

I don't have to do this alone, but the reality is I am. Everyone had abandoned her and I'm the only one still here giving a shit. Which is why I'm so upset. And tired.
I feel so bloody alone.
Do me a favour, just say something nice and encouraging and stop me crying into my jumper sleeve.
If I could talk to anyone in my family about this I wouldn't be here.

Fuck, I hate this. I never bloody cry.
Ridiculous woman!
Always look red and puffy afterwards too.
Very attractive!

I disagree with cognito. The roles are reversed and it sounds like they always have been. I had similar and it was something that was discussed at counselling. My counselling never dismissed it as Well your an adult now! Because she was aware of how those in mine and yours positions miss out on their childhood. Its a HELL of a lot of pressure to put on a child. Her blaming you for things that happened when you were a child further cemented the idea that you were responsible for her rather then the other way around. If you spend your childhood playing the part of an adult emotionally then you miss a vital part of your development.

One friend of mine has control and cleaning obsessively issues due to similar. Her mum was like yours, just not really able to cope and function. My childhood left me with massive amounts of guilt, i felt guilty about everything and felt other peoples happiness was my responsibility and i was incapable of ever saying no. I also have an anxiety disorder.

This doesn't mean she is a bad person but the effect it had on you is just as strong and long lasting nonetheless.

I also disagree with Cogito, your mum has a responsibility to help herself and sometimes being 'kind' is the worse thing you can do as it just enables people to wallow in self-pity and general uselessness. You aren't responsible for your mum, she is an adult and in some ways everyone else needs to remove the safety net so that she is forced to take responsibility for herself. It sounds like you actually have a very unhealthy relationship because she is continually leaning on you - and other people - instead of making her own life.

It is great she has gone on this course but don't let her emotionally blackmail you about it. If she gives it up so be it - but make it clear to her that you won't be offering her any more financial assistance if she does give up and you also won't be listening to any more whinging about how awful her life is.

Sometimes we get caught in the trap of trying to prove to people we love that we aren't going to let them down like everyone else supposedly has. The problem with this is that it is terribly wearing to be somebody else's life raft and, in the end, it is too much pressure and often you end up offloading them in the way they fear most - ie it becomes a self-perpetuating cycle. The answer is to support them but only if they help themselves, and make this clear to them.

Life is short and you have a right to be happy too you know. You've done your best, now it's time to look after yourself and your own little family. Support you mum if she helps herself. If she won't help herself then that is her choice and not your responsibility.

Thanks poopoo.
Your experience is really something that I can relate to. Can I ask how you accessed counselling? I often feel its something I could really use.
I so have really bad anxiety issues, which spread to all areas of my life.
And yes, I do feel like I missed out on a part of my childhood. So much.
We moved around loads too. My mum has never ever been happy or settled.
The older I get, the more I realise how much I have had to shoulder. How responsible I've been made to feel for it all.

And that's it, she's not a bad person. And if she could help you she would. She's good with my kids (when she can be bothered) and I realise life has dealt her a bad hand. She's also had ample opportunity to sort it out.

She comes to my house every day to drop the dog off if she's at college because the dog barks if left alone (old old dog). If she finishes college at say 11 she will then sit in my house until dh comes Oi from work. I feel like I can't go out anywhere on my own without her coming too. I feel like I have to keep her company , because she has nowhere else to go. She would literally just go home and vegetate. We seriously looked st leaving the country to work and live abroad. We thought about it for like,a nanosecond . Then we realised if we moved she would literally have noone.

And I just can't do it to her.

Ahrgh!
I gave her numbers for welfare advice this noon. She won't phone them. She wants dh to. Gonna have to ask him when he gets home.

She's in my house now. Am sitting in my car parked at the beach after dropping ds at nursery. Hiding.

Back to it I suppose....

Thank you cleopatra :) I just wish she wanted to help herself.
Yesterday it was my fault because I hadn't made an arrangement with my mechanic friend to get her an mot.

Not her fault for not actually asking me to, mind.

After I pointed out that he is busy chap and it might take a while, she 'didnt know what she was going to do without her car' and left in a huff.
I casually advised on the nearest bus route and got an earful.
She would actually never leave her house until she got her car back/someone offered her a lift (i.e me)

I got mine through the Dr. I actually went about my anxiety and it all came out.

I know you said she was given a bad hand but was it really that bad? You say your dad left but that happens in a lot of families. It sounds like she heaps on the self pity and i wonder if the only reason you think she's had it tough is because that's what she tells you. It keeps you where she wants you, feeling sorry for her and taking responsibility for her.

What happens to us makes us who we are but also how you react to them. She can chose to give herself a kick up the bum if she wants. Sorry if that sounds harsh.

My mum was similar and had no get up and go. Her attitude to everything was that if it was a bit tricky or scary best not do it. Its frustrating. I often feel that my mum just wasn't capable of changing but that again took the responsibility FROM her.

You can't be sat in your house every day! Perhaps start off making plans once or twice a week. Something she can't come to. Lunch at a friends for eg so that she has to leave. The gym? You can't be babysitting a fully grown woman. Encourage her to go somewhere . . . a club, class or coffee morning or something. She needs to get out. You need your life.

Thats awful that you wouldn't go abroad. Really you can't live the rest of your life like that or you will vegetate as well.

My mum didn't got out either and i felt responsible for her happiness but i made myself be selfish, or that's what it felt like, and had a life of my own. I felt terrible about it and had such guilt every time i enjoyed myself. Not that she ever actually sad anything. I hoped this would prompt her to change but it didn't. I think she was actually content like that or rather it was better then the scary alternative. Perhaps if YOUR mum is unhappy she will change.

Just read you are at the beach! Stay there! Seriously you need your own life. If she expects you to stay in all day every day looking after her just so that she is never alone then she is very selfish. She should think about your needs for once! What would she do if you were at work?

And tell her to make her own bloody phone call!

And let her arrange stuff for her own car. The longer you baby her, even though she is asking you to, the longer she will behave like a baby.

It must be exhausting having an extra fully grown child to look after.

You say that some others in your family have backed off, perhaps they have realised that will be best for her in the long run.

You are right Poopoo, it wasn't so bad!
It was only tough because she made it tough. The moving around and changing schools was truly very hard for me rather than her - she got a decorating grant from the council each time we moved and her parents helped her out with furniture etc, so we were never really hard up like that.
The moving around and the fact that unlike other mothers in our area she smoked like a chimney, was extremely fat and didn't work was tough on a wee kid who had to try extra hard to fit in at school - I never really did in the end.
Kids are perceptive - they know when you are different.
My grandparents were kind of more like my substitute parents. We lived with them for a bit, and I truly look back on that time as the most settled I've ever been. To my disadvantage at times. It's like the ideal I can never realise again.

I find it really hard to put down roots somewhere, which is a horrible feeling.
All I want is to be at home; sod everything else!

And yes, oh yes, it is absolutely exhausting entertaining her every day.

How the hell do you help someone who has no motivation or urge to help themselves.

Sometimes she has broached the subject of herself and comes out with such gems as 'please don't end up like me'.
She is so well aware of her situation.

All she wants is to live in sheltered housing (no joke, she gets wistful about it at times - it's where my nan lived in her latter years) and potter about for the rest of her days.
She's so young yet.
It's frightening!
I really, really don't think she is depressed, I honestly do believe she just doesn't give a shit and wants to do nothing.

Poopoo, how is your relationship with your mum now? Have you ever had to discuss your counselling etc?

I feel so sad for you! Your story of your childhood is very sad. I can feel it in your words.

You are right, that would have been much tougher on you then on her. Where is her sympathy for you. Where was her concern about the impact on you? When did she put you first?

Sorry if these questions are upsetting. I think perhaps you need to get upset about it and not let it be buried by your mums self pity. Then you can get angry. You have a right to be angry!

She made your childhood difficult. She only thought of herself, then she blamed you when it all went wrong. You weren't allowed to be a child.

Its up to you whether you talk to her about it, but they are your feelings and you are entitled to them. Don't let anyone tell you different.

Be back soon . . .

yes so young to want to go into sheltered housing. Im guessing its so she can be looked after and have no responsibility. She sounds afraid of life. A child herself.

My mum passed away. It was a terrible time as you can imagine and so unfair as she was so young, although she acted older like yours. She missed out on seeing her grandchildren, the first by just days. She would have been devastated by that. She was so looking forward to it. She knew she wasn't going to live that long but it came sooner then expected.

I dealt with it very badly. As well as grieving i had unresolved issues as she would never discuss these things, just bury her head in the sand and give me this look that made me feel so guilty for bringing it up. I know my mum loved me very much and did her best. I just would have liked to be able to rely on her for support.

She had an anxiety condition which made her dependent on others including me.

Anyway what i was leading up to is that i started my counselling after she died so never discussed it with her.

Oh and i have no idea how you help someone why doesn't want to help themselves. It sounds almost like she doesn't want to live.

You can help yourself though. You don't have to allow yourself to be dragged down practically being a carer for someone who doesn't NEED a carer.

Have you ever suggested that she volunteers in a charity shop or somewhere to get experience?

And what is this earful you get from her if you say something she doesn't like?

Threelittleducks you sound like such a lovely, lovely daughter and ...woman.
You sound so loving and empathetic and insightful.
I don't really have much advice other than yes getting help for yourself might have a knock on effect of helping your mum in the long run. less is more.

I think the main thing to realise is that you can't change another person, BUT you can change how you react to them.
That is probably the reason you feel so exhausted, you are bashing your head against a brick wall.
Use your time and energy to make your life better not hers. As other posters have said the first thing you must do is stop her using your house as coffee shop. If you see her it should be at her house. I think if you could manage to do that you will find it so much easier to implement anything else you need to do.
Good luck!