Help Needed Re Overbearing PIL

[TimothyClaypoleLover]

Hi, am at my wits end and need some advice please. Sorry for length of post, just trying to set the scene.

Ever since DD1 born PIL have been overbearing and demanding access to her, overnight visits from very early on, turning up unannounced all the time to see her and generally interfering with our parenting decisions.

When I went back to work full time I initially had DD booked into nursery but PIL insisted they have her for one day a week. I was reluctant to do this as thought it would cause problems down the line and they do not parent how DH and I want to parent. However, after asking advice on here and my DH assuring me that it was the right thing to do for DD I gave in and PIL have been looking after DD for one day per week (8am-6pm).

I am about to go on maternity leave with DC2 with the intention of giving up work and becoming a SAHM. It has been hinted several times in the past that current childcare arrangement will no longer be necessary as I will be at home to provide the childcare. Obviously I am happy for PIL to see DD1 and take her out but not necessarily for 10 hours a day, more like take her out for a morning or afternoon although obviously if they want to take her to the zoo or seaside etc then a full day is fine. And of course they will be able to see DD1 on other days so not necessarily only on the set one day per week.

Well, PIL have kicked off majorly that I am denying them access to DD1 (which I am not) and that they should be entitled to keep their one day a week arrangement indefinitely. DH is stuck in the middle. He is more worried about his DM kicking off than he is of upsetting me as I am normally fairly chilled out and go with the flow whereas his DM shouts until everyone gives in and she gets her way. DH sided with me and said he was going to tell his parents what would happen from now on. However, PIL have had a go as DH is now saying we should let the current arrangement with them continue to keep the peace.

I am not wanting to stop them seeing DD at all and appreciate the childcare they have provided. However, I never wanted them to provide childcare in the first place as felt it would blur the boundaries between providing childcare and being loving grandparents - which it obviously has. I am being made to feel that I am the one in the wrong by PIL. Can anyone offer some advice as to how to deal with PIL without causing a huge family rift?

I would allow them to carry on having her one day a week, perhaps not for 10 hours. Believe me, you will really welcome the break when you have a new baby.

Whilst you may appreciate your DD being cared for a day a week when you have the new baby, I don't think the situation is being handled with any sensitivity towards you.

What is your daughter's feelings about her GPs caring for her? Could that influence the overall decision? IE if she is happy then can you let it continue for the time being, and if she is not happy then could your DH arrange something different with his parents?

It sounds like you are completely in the right and they are completely wrong and your DH is very weak. In fact it sounds horrible but is it really that bad, considering they have been caring quite adequately presumably for your DD up to now. Would a frank discussion between the four of you as adults help to come to some happy decision?

"It sounds like you are completely in the right and they are completely wrong" - I honestly do doubt that!

I think your pil are being way overbearing, yes. I don't like the way they are going about this. They have no right to demand that.

BUT

Fact is...when that baby comes along, you will be very grateful for the break. Having another won't be problematic for you - you'll do what we all do and just get stuck in - but if it were me, the lure of a regular lessening of the load would triumph.

I would drop dc1 off at ten say, and collect him again at five or something.

Your pil are full on...but a break is a break and they are precious bloody few.

The problem with your overbearing inlaws is that for them its their way or no way; this is par for the course for such bloody minded dare I say toxic people. It is not yours or your DHs fault they are like this; their respective birth families did that to them.

Your H also gave into their incessant demands; he has also had a lifetime of their conditioning so breaking out from that is extremely difficult. Also he is still likely to be seeking their approval even as an adult. He is torn yes but his main loyalty now is to you and his family unit; not them.

Your ILs are not reasonable people and as such will never respond at all to any reasoned argument you care to make. They also do not apologise for their actions nor even take any responsibility for them.

I was also wondering how your DD gets on with them?. Has she ever returned to you overtired and or upset?.

Note too how they have trampled on and over any boundary you have tried to set; again typical of such people. They are only thinking of themselves here, they are completely self absorbed. If you are not happy you have every right to express this.

You and your H need to set boundaries re them a lot higher than they have been and you must both present a united front to these people.

Would suggest you read "Toxic Inlaws" written by Susan Forward.

If you don't want PIL to look after DD, and you want to give up work to look after both of your children, then that's what you should do. Some people don't feel like they 'need a break', and if you're giving up work to become a SAHM then it seems a bit odd to me to send one child elsewhere for the full day whilst you stay at home with the other child - would that not make DD feel as though you were more interested in DC2 than in her?

They can't make you hand over your DD on the specified days. I don't think you're in the wrong - you didn't want the arrangement in the first place, and now you're being made to seem unreasonable for wanting to do what you want to do.

I'd make it clear to DH that your plan is to have both children, at home, with you and that whilst PIL are of course welcome to have DD on occasion for trips and things like normal GPs, the current arrangement (which you didn't bloody want) will cease.

Then let PIL tantrum if that's what they choose to do.

This is a huge warning sign for the future. I see the above point about wanting the break when you have the new baby - but it's not about that. Use this opportunity to make it clear to PIL - both of you - that you do not intend to stand for them using emotional blackmail, shouting and threats to get you to do things their way with your children.

It doesn't matter what it's about - and it sounds as if there will be plenty more issues to come - you already hint at them riding roughshod over how decisions are made in your family. This isn't about specifics, it's about control.

It's great that your DH is on side. Naturally he feels conflicted, but what he really needs to see is that this is about sorting things out for the long term. Nip their behaviour in the bud, for their sakes. Because this will run and run - grandparents not accepting that they are no longer the parents - and the worst possible outcome is that you accommodate until you can do so no longer and end up with an almighty falling out. It happens. And then you have a family at war with deep set bad feeling on both sides.

You need to make this clear to them. If there is going to be a good family relationship, they need to respect above all other things that your children are your responsibility. If they continue to interfere, they will put the whole relationship at risk, permanently, because - and this you need to make CRYSTAL clear - you won't budge. Your children, your decisions.

Access? If that's the word they are choosing to use, you might want to point out that for grandparents, that doesn't exist. Relationship is the word they are looking for - and a definition of that is unlikely to include trying to dictate to a parent what to do with their own child.

Them being so demanding would probably make me dig my heels in!

Ok, they are not right, but try to make the situation work to your own advantage.

How about making them understand that you are grateful for the care they are providing BUT that as her parents, you are the ones who decide to change the agreements as and when you wish, that you would allow for your dd to spend (insert reduced number of hours here) but if this is going to cause a confrontation, that you much rather not bother them with any childcare.

And stand your ground with your DH, your pil have no right to call the shots on who does the babysitting. So it is your way (DH and yours) or NO WAY.

I think you will need that break, and a pair of willing babysitters is a luxury you can't afford to loose, BUT if they start calling the shots so aggresively in your children upbringing, it won't be long before your relationship with DH starts to suffer. Keep that in mind, it is more important for the children to have a pair of happy albeit over tired parents, than living with two resentful parents but spending time with dotting grandparents once a week.

Does your DD enjoy going to them? It is worth keeping as many things as possible in her life consistent when baby comes, unless there is very good reason to change (eg can't afford nursery fees).
FWIW I would be thrilled if my PIL had DD1 one day a week to enable me to really concentrate on my newborn, if DD1 was happy with that. Two kids is bloody hard work.

You are by no means the only one to be subjected to overbearing inlaws.

This may also prove useful:-

If your husband isn't able to handle his family as he should (this is a learning process for many husbands); simply, clearly, boldly and kindly tell them YOUR plans for their visits. Do NOT offer up an explanation initially because this will indicate to them they are owed one. They are not - it is your home, your baby, your rules, your family. Your plans should reasonably include them, but I recommend deliberately making plans different from what they stated so that they understand clearly they are not calling the shots. If they act hurt or become angry, don't worry, it is just the first reaction. And absolutely do not react to their negative reaction. Take the stance that what you are saying is perfectly acceptable, understandable, and reasonable, because it is. It may take awhile for them to come around, but hopefully they will. If they are stubborn and unrelenting, all the more proof that what you did was necessary - better to deal with it now than suffer years of problems.

At the risk of having your PIL deciding on your child upbringing? No, not worth it, managebale perhaps, but that behaviour has to be stopped as soon as possible.

Thanks for your replies.

No harm has come to DD whilst the current arrangement has been going on but I have issues with it in that they will not follow our guidelines about things - and I am not being PFB, I mean they give her fizzy drinks when we don't want her to have fizzy drinks, they don't allow her to nap if it interferes with their plans so she comes back to us a complete nightmare. They only change DD's nappy twice in 10 hours - despite being told to change it more often - and say that it is not convenient if they are out and about to change her. They also don't do anything child friendly with her such as taking her out to the zoo, park etc. They spend their time taking her round the shops and visiting elderly relatives. DD is only 20 months so cannot talk properly but she often comes back and makes a beeline for me refusing to interact with anyone else.

I know that I will appreciate a break when the baby arrives and I am not disputing that which is why I am happy for them to still continue to see her. Just not on exactly the same day every week for 10 hours. Is that so wrong? Other grandparents I know get to see their grandchildren plenty without having to have them for a solid 10-12 hours. With me being off work now I would like the flexibility to sometimes make plans for the day they currently have her without feeling like I have to ask permission to see my own DD on that day. I feel like as DD's mother I am being sidelined to keep PIL happy.

It seems to me that this arrangement would end naturally any way - what would they do when she starts school - demand she has a day off each week to accomodate them?
If you arent working then she wont need to be with them for 10 hrs a day.

I also think you need to be sensitive to your dd needs and she may very well be clingy etc when the new baby arrives and may not want to be carted off to GPS.
Shes your child do what YOU want and whats best for her. but it seens to me this is all about your PILs wants.

Do what YOU want! You are the mother of the child and it's upto you how much or little your DD sees her Gps.

If you don't nip this in the bud, it will get worse, believe me! I live too close to my inlaws, hence they thought they could/should see my kids when they felt like, and not when it was convenient for us as a family and it's been a hard long slog to get DH to find a backbone and stop giving in to their demands.

When your new baby arrives, you will appreciate the times when they take your DD off your hands, but don't have set days, because if they're anything like my inlaws, they won't be able to adapt if you need to or want to change things.

Woah. Stop right there. They change her nappy TWICE in ten hours- you know this as a fact? And refuse to listen to your views on how to provide basic care that does not border on neglect?

You're into a whole different ball game here. Sounds like this is the perfect excuse to stop what's going on here - your daughter not bring cared for adequately and properly, for a significant amount of time. As you've tried discussion and it HASN'T worked, you can assume it won't (unless your PIL suddenly develop a lot more respect for their children as parents) so I'd be putting my foot down. Show your DH this thread. Not changing a child's nappy because it's not convenient for you is neglectful. Their interaction with your children needs to be put on a completely different footing, for your DD's sake.

This is an issue of PRINCIPLE - namely that you are your dd's mother and as such should be able to decide who looks after her. With other issues there may be room for compromise in the future, but I really feel that if you don't put your foot down now over this issue that you will just be storing up more problems for the future. As other posters have said, you need to regain control.

If it were me, I wouldn't bring it up, but if asked say you are going to stick with your plans to have her at home with you. Repeat ad nauseum, no need for confrontations or family rows, just do what YOU want to do. And if they don't accept this then you may need to distance yourself and see less of them generally.

Good luck, sounds a nightmare.

Atilla, you are totally right about DH being conditioned by his parents over the years. From what I have witnessed PIL have been really manipulative with DH and SIL and still are. And it is all about control. Both DH and SIL have their own families now and PIL can't stand not being centre of attention.

Up until now I have left it to DH to let PIL know what is what but that doesnt seem to be working as they continue to manipulate. I do think we need to keep saying "our children, our decision" until it gets through.

As said, I am more than happy for them to see DD and they will be able to see more of her now I am finishing work as we will be around all week rather than them just seeing her on one day. They way they are behaving is like I have banned them from completely seeing DD which I would never do.

doctordwt - yes I know this for a fact re nappy changing as I count the nappies that go into the change bag. DH then asks them why they have only changed her twice and they say "oh we forgot" or "we were out shopping and there was nowhere to change her" or "she was asleep during the normal change time". It absolutely infuriates me!

I used to say 'you've had your children, now it's my turn and I'd quite like to bring them up MY way', now we see much less of them, thank god, so it's less of an issue.

Timothy

No its not wrong at all. Your ILs have not respected any boundaries you care to set so they won't respect any boundary you set with regards to your DD who they currently look after one day a week.

SO why do they act like this? (well I can hazard a guess why, its to exert power and control over your H and you). It also sounds like they just want to show her off to the assorted rellies they visit and or shopkeepers. I am wondering if they will treat your youngest the same or if they go onto show overt favourtism towards the oldest (that could too easily happen).

You and your DH must present a united front to these people and tell them straight so they have no argument against you. Any weakness will be exploited by these people; you have already seen how your DH has backed down against their onslaught. BTW such people do not change so you need to be prepared for further backlashes in the years to come (they could well use the children in future years to get back at you). Also them using the term "access" re DD1 also makes them look extremely unreasonable.

'They don't allow her to nap if it interferes with their plans'

• hang on, if they are caring for her, their plans include... caring for her. That is the priority - right? Or is it more the case that they want to be able to show off your DD, play with her like a doll, but providing the kind of child-centred, admittedly rather intensive care that a 20 month old needs is not part of the plan?

I am not surprised that it sounds like these visits take a lot out of your DD rather than enhancing her relationship with them.

And I am increasingly convinced that you need to look at this not even so much as a 'nip controlling grandparents in the bud' thing, as a 'start protecting your children NOW from what's shaping up to be a not-so-brilliant grandparent relationship' thing. Your DD doesn't seem to be the actual priority here, more their rights to take control over their changing family dynamic.

Definitely speak in detail to your DH about this and make it clear that this won't sort itself out. And that in fact, you have no plans at all to spend these lovely years with your young children feeling 'sidelined' and seeing your children - well, used to keep this pair happy.

Thanks Horsemad, our PIL definitely do sound like they are very similar! DH, like yours, needs to grow a backbone when dealing with them rather than just rolling over. I also need to start being more vocal with them. DH accused me of not communicating with them properly which leads to them being annoyed but I have purposely been leaving all the communicating to DH as its his parents - he is obviously not up to the job of communicating properly either!

Oh well, that's easy then. Dd isn't being well looked after by them, and isn't enjoying it. So stop the arrangement. It isn't fair on your dd to be treated like that. Time to protect her.

If they say "you are stopping us from seeing our grandchild" your reply is "no, I'm not actually, but I could do. Your behaviour is making me want to. Think about that for a moment".

If they start shouting/having a go, then leave. Pick up your stuff and walk out, or put the phone down, or get them their coats, depending on where you all are. Don't stick around for it. They are behaving like toddlers, so try toddler-management on them. They tantrum, they get ignored.

Oh and last thing - it's well worth falling out over this now, because it's more likely to give them the shock they need to change, and if they can, things can improve.

Leave it for another couple of years of interference and you seeing a detrimental effect on your children, and you'll hate them too much to want to try and sort it. Make your DH see that too.

The nappy changing is neglectful. Say it. 'I've had enough of DD coming back to us heavily soiled/not changed enough after her days with you. Your routine clearly doesn't suit her if her basic hygiene is being neglected. It's a serious problem and even if the baby weren't coming we would shorten the time she has to be out and her needs not attended to in this way. The same with her naps. It isn't working for any of us.'