Too many red flags?

[KarmaK]

Several weeks ago I met a man at a work-related party. He is in his 50s. I am 15 years younger. He introduced himself to me, we chatted and he gave me his business card. I emailed him and we arranged to meet for a drink. We met for a drink and got along very well. We had a second date which went well although I did notice at that point that he seems very unsure of himself.

We had a third date the other day. At this point a few things started to worry me slightly. Firstly, he had mentioned two friends of his, both of whom work in my same industry. He had said, "my friend XX is directing that movie." But by chance a friend of mine told me that in fact her own boyfriend is directing said movie. My date then backtracked and also admitted that the man he mentioned is not his friend after all. On our first date he had also talked at some length about his friend who is a writer. He talked about the books she'd written and he told me very funny anecdotes about this friend's experiences as a writer and about her love life. On our third date he started to repeat his stories about this writer friend but then he promptly admitted that actually he does not know her at all and has never met her. He said that he knows the woman's boyfriend's friend and that's where he got all the anecdotes about her from.

At this stage he also talked a little about his teenage daughter from a previous relationship. He did not have a good word to say about his daughter's mother and said she seems mentally ill and he talked about how his ex had prevented him from seeing his daughter for years and years. He also was very critical of his ex's new husband. Very disparaging indeed, in fact. He says that his daughter, who is in her late teens, is actually now coming to live with him in just a few months time.

On top of that he has a teenage daughter and on the 3rd date I asked him whether his daughter's mother is his ex-wife. He then began slagging his mother's daughter off to the point where I became speechless. He said she's probably mentally ill, that she has treated him horribly and he said he refuses to call her by her name but instead refers to her as "the mother". He also said, with a lot of pride in his voice, that his daughter refers to her mother not as mummy but as "THAT WOMAN." He really seemed to get a lot of pleasure from this.

Overall he also seems very hesitant. Rather than actually initiating dates he will drop heavy hints. We have tentatively arranged a fourth date, but I'm having second thoughts.

What do you think?

It's all bullshit with losers and users... goes with their territory.

Yes Lizzie! Those random lies were really creepy

it's not judgemental. :)

You don't want to see him again. Even if he ran an orphanage during the week and spent weekends rehabilitating orphaned hedgehogs while delivering meals on wheels to the elderly, if there are doubts (for whatever reason) you shouldn't need to seek validation for those. Sometimes there are valid reasons for not wanting to see someone again, but sometimes you just might not want to, because the chemistry isn't there perhaps - and that is fine as well.

Ask yourself this question - if you'd come on here and told all that you have now, and the response had been "oh, he just sounds as if he's been through a hard time, bless him, I wouldn't bin him because of that," what would you have done? Would that have made you want to see him again? or would it have made you doubt your own judgements even more?

You need to trust your own gut feelings and instincs, even if that thakes you a little while. That's not a criticism, it's just a statement that you don't need anyone to confirm how you should or shouldn't be feeling. Your feelings are your own and need no confirmation from anyone else. :)

He sounds like a freak fwiw and I personally wouldn't go there, but you have to make that decision for yourself, and instead of seeking validation for that decision, come here and spread the word that we might all judge along with you.

I hear what you are saying Wannabe. Just please know that not all women are confident enough etc to be able to do what you've just said. if they were, then there wouldn't be so many women "trapped" in highly abusive relationships. Coming here, and hearing feedback from other women, many of whom probably have more experience or confidence than me, has actually given me that extra push to get rid of this guy sooner rather than later. I have also just now started seeing a therapist, so that is a real positive. I know that I shouldn't still be "needing" validation from others, but I am a work in progress.

@ wannaBe. If there was such a saint -of orphaned chldren and hedgehogs & meals on wheels-- I'd bet good money on him having rabid b.o, rancid feet, monobrow, and flowing nostril hair.

The reason why so many women tolerate abusive or unfulfilling relationships is that they erroneously believe that they need 'a man' to define them.

"The reason why so many women tolerate abusive or unfulfilling relationships is that they erroneously believe that they need 'a man' to define them."

I disagree. Personally I am happiest and more content when I am single and I don't need a man to define me. I wouldn't mind a man for the companionship, but it's not essential for me. The reason I've stayed in abusive relationships in the past was simply because I didn't know any better and didn't have enough self-worth to know that I didn't deserve to have a man abusing me.

You say that you didn't have enough self-worth to know that you didn't deserve to have a man abusing you, but that doesn't square with a woman who's always been happier and more content being single, Karmak.

Oh God he's terrible

I'm sorry.

Just read the OP, not the whole thread but it's pretty clear that he's the one with the MH problems - he's a fantasist. I bet his ex is as sane as anyone and he's making it all up.

I would be running faster than I ever thought possible from this one.

I opened this thread with slight insecurities about my own relationship but you've reassured me that DP isn't anywhere in the same league as this fellow!

I hope you are Ok x

Well whether it squares with you or not Izzyizin, it is how it is! Or rather, it is how I am! Just because a woman doesn't have enough self-worth doesn't automatically mean she will feel the need to constantly be in relationships. In fact, the root of my self-worth issues come from being sexually abused from early childhood onwards. The result of that was I became - and still can be - very wary of anything to do with men and sex, to the point of sometimes going for years without dating at all. Everybody doesn't just fit neatly into a box.

Thanks Betty.

As I think I mentioned in my thread, the man has now called to fix up a date tomorrow. I'm taking the route of simply not responding to his call. Presumably he will get the message that I want nothing further to do with him?

I wouldn't rely on it, Karmak.

You're best advised to answer one of his calls and simply tell him that you don't want to see him again or take the relationship any further and wish him all the best.

You can add that it's nothing personal; you've realised you'd prefer to follow solo pursuits instead of dating twats. Or say you've got a very crowded schedule for the next few months and won't have time to meet up with him again, ever.

Pleased to see you can get feisty - now all you've got to do is display that quality when it comes to twats, losers, abusers, and any other users that come into your life.

I wouldn't count on it either. He might not understand that sort of hint.

I'd probably tell him, just once, that you are too busy to see him for a while as you have got family visiting, or are going to be working overtime or something quite believable like that.
Make an excuse that gets you out of it for a few weeks at least and then stop replying - if he doesn't know where you live, that's an advantage.
Be careful as it does sound like he's a bit unbalanced.

sorry, it's horrible to suddenly realise someone you've been seeing is quite scary and weird, but hopefully he will get the message and leave you alone. Come back for advice if he doesn't.

You COULD tell him you have met someone else and that way you have the added thing of another man being around, well, he will think that, and it may mean he is more likely not to try it on or bother you too much if he thinks he'll get his teeth knocked out by some geezer

I'm slowly but surely getting there Izzy. Coming to this site to ask for advice is a whole lot better than actually entering into a relationship with or, God forbid, even marrying one of these traits. You were right in saying that I shouldn't have agreed to that third date with him. But hell, it could have been a whole lot worse. The twat doesn't know where I live, I didn't sleep with him or anything and all in all I have escaped quite unscathed.

Good news there

Try to keep it that way, actually the not answering might be the way forward - at least for a while - and if he does get the message, that's brilliant. If he doesn't then you can explain that you have had so much on that you forgot to get back to him, and actually it wouldn't be fair to pursue anything as you have got far too much work and other stuff at present.

You have to keep your cool whatever, any hint of self doubt on your part and he'll be in there. Good luck x

I get you totally KarmaK. It just doesn't come naturally to some of us to see twats as clearly twats right off - sometimes you have to experience more of their twattish behaviour than others would to feel sure of it.

Asking advice of a sample of disconnected strangers on mn is a reassuring way to get a range of opinions that you might or might not agree with. I don't think we need telling the decisions are still ours to make!

Thanks Betty and Pickgo!

"I know that I shouldn't still be "needing" validation from others, but I am a work in progress."

KarmaK... of course you need some kind of validation from others, your world was about as far from normal as it could get, probably always was... How could you know what was and wasn't normal!

So glad you came to ask here, really it's a great place. I would however recommend you pop along to www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/1425123-Support-thread-for-those-in-Emotionally-abusive-relationships-number-7 It's a great bunch of people some in, some already out, but all of us understand the dynamics, and are always testing stuff out on one another.

Well done for listening to your instincts! Well done for asking and realising that your feelings ARE valid!

Firstly, I agree you should not see him ever again, because of all the reasons given upthread, making out the ex is mad, lying with his entertaining, fascinating and witty anecdotes etc.

Seconldly, I am no expert, and would be feeling in a dilema as to how to get rid of of him. I too feel fine on my own, in fact relieved and overjoyed to have finally escaped from an abusive man.

The kindest thing if it was it was a nice man you were dealing with would be to just tell him what was said upthread, nice to meet him, don't want to persue a relationship. But wondering if you tried that he would start with trying to persuade you to carry on going out with him, try to make you give a good reason etc.

So if you feel brave enough, I suppose you could ring him and tell him you don't want to persue a relationship, or say that next time he rings. If you don't feel you could do that, or you do and it doesn't work, go to plan B:-

Would it be terribly awful to tell him by text or email that you don't want to persue a courtship with him (not using those words,sounds sarcastic).IMHO Not saying too busy right now or anything because then he'll hear twist it in his head, to mean you like him really, so there is hope, so keep pestering you, thinking, like in romantic comedies, you will eventually realise he is God's gift to women, you are ideally suited, etc etc.

If you'd been going out together for a long time, the text or email route would seem on a scale between not very nice to cruel. But with the type of man he is and length of courtship, IMO, especially if you don't want to speak, or do speak and it doesn't work, texting or emailing would seem justified.

It would stop you cringing when the phone rings/having to buy a new 'phone, having to give him reasons, (which btw, why should you, it's not a job interview feedback), and make it so he's not left wondering.

KarmaK - if you don't feel you could actually say the words to him, could you just text him and say that you aren't interested? (Experience of persistent gits who don't understand what ignoring phone calls means). Just to put a full stop by it. But whatever you do, don't say sorry or apologise to him!

Karmak, that's a really good point by lazarusb about not saying sorry to him.

Karmac, I'm sorry, when I was sarcastic about his fascinating anecdotes etc, I didn't mean anything against you for initially finding them funny.

I'd just text him and say "I've decided I don't wish to pursue this any further, it was nice meeting you and good luck for the future.' or alternatively 'I've decided to take a break from dating, it was nice meeting you and good luck for the future.'
then ignore all further communication from him
quickest way to get rid

and good luck to you OP for future dating - you only saw him 3 times and that's fine, next twat will probably only be 2 eventually someone nice will come along, it's all good experience

I'd be out of there like a rat up a drainpipe!

He did call a couple of times (I didn't pick up).

I've now texted him to say I don't want to see him again due to the lies he told about pretending to know somebody he doesn't know.

So, I was a bit blunt. But it feels good.

Good for you - that's fair enough. He chose to lie (badly). Not a great start to any relationship really Hope you feel like it's a weight off your shoulders.