Mother/Daughter/GC relationship.

[DaughterAndSon]

There is lots of background and I don't want to drip feed, but it would take too long and be too boring to read if I detailed all the ways I have problems with my mother.

My most recent problems are wrt to my mother and her tantrums. I can't think of any other way to put it.
I have a DD who is 3 and a half, and yesterday, my mother and I took DD to an appointment at the hospital. DD was tired and bored, and was not in a good mood generally.

There were 2 older people in the waiting room, snoozing whilst waiting for their appointment. After DD and I were called through to the consulting room, DD had a few tests, then left the consulting room to find my mother while the dr chatted to me.
About 2 minutes later, I heard DD screaming at the top of her voice. I rushed to the door with the dr, and as the dr opened the door, my mother, who was holding DD in the air by the back of her jumper, dropped DD onto the floor at mine and the drs feet and shouted 'I can't cope with this!!! before flouncing off.

The dr's mouth fell open and dr said 'Oh!' and I felt very embarrassed and didn't know what to say. I took DD to the reception to make another appointment, and receptionist was busy, so while we waited, DD had a tantrum because she wanted to run away. I took a firm hold of her hand and explained that we were just waiting for the receptionist to make another appointment, and we would be able to go. I feel like I had control of the situation, even though DD was crying, and I was holding her hand.

The next thing I knew, my mother appeared out of nowhere, and was pulling on DD telling me she would take DD.

I felt like everyone was looking at me.

Later of course, it was DD's fault for being so naughty because she wouldn't be quiet and was waking up the snoozing people.

A few other things are that if we are out and DD is misbehaving, my mother will say 'You'd better be good DD or your mummy is going to give you such a hiding in a minute, you're going to get a belting.' I do not use physical punishment on DD, and although mother says she doesn't condone smacking DC, she always beat smacked us, and some things she says make me disbelieve her opinion that smacking isn't a good idea.

Mother will sometimes play at building towers with bricks, or drawing, but if DD knocks the tower down, or scribbles colours in my mother's intricate drawings, mother gets really annoyed, crosses her arms across her chest, pouts, and tells DD 'I am not playing with you anymore DD because you spolit my drawing/tower etc'. Mother is serious btw. She will still refuse to play with DD if DD asks her to play something different 10 minutes later because 10 minutes ago, you scribbled over my drawing so I am not playing with you anymore.

There is so much more, but basically, mother likes to control every situation, and if she isn't in control, then she will use threats, manipulation or whatever gives her control. Failing that, she goes to extremes and throws tantrums. She thinks DD should do exactly as she says because she said so. There is no compromise. I think she expects too much from a 3 yr old.

She flies off the handle and then blames everyone else, it is never her fault. She never admits fault at all.

A few more things;

When DD was a little over a year old, she was very interested in bins. Very annoying for adults but I imagine great fun for a DC of that age.
DD had managed to get hold of something in mother's kitchen bin, so mother roared at how dirty DD was, then got the whole almost full kitchen bin, and tipped it all over the floor telling DD she could have a fantastic time playing in all of the rubbish now. The atmosphere was horrible. I was aghast, and took DD straight home, leaving mother to clean it up.

If another of mother's GC go to her house and turn the tv up and mother doesn't like it, she will turn it up to full volume so it is deafening, then ask the child 'Are you happy now?'

Mother blames me for not being responsible enough (when DD lost her glasses), not organised enough (if I can't remember something and need to find the details) and apparently I am the biggest slob in the family (because I have friends who I see instead of doing hours and hours of housework every day).
No matter what I do or don't do, mother never seems to approve of anything I do.
She has very little respect for me, if any, has humiliated me by shouting at me in public, demeans my authority with the DC by challenging me, has told me that my friends only tolerate me out of politeness, and cannot keep anything to herself that I tell her.

If you have got this far, you may be wondering why I have anything to do with her, and the truth is, of course she is not always like this. It is only when she is annoyed and when DD is behaving, mother seems to enjoy the time she spends with DD. Some days she gets annoyed easier than others. I had a reason to cut her off completely a few years ago, and did. I then hit a crisis, and my sibling told my mother that I needed her. I didn't, but over a year had passed at that point, and I decided to give it another go, only now it has just gone back to the disrespect, back to how every single thing is about my mother, about how I should just listen to her more and I would get it right, back to how she knows every bloody thing. Arggghhhhhhhh!!!

I don't want DD to grow up to be a people pleaser, and I know she will learn from my example, but to stand up to my mother is not easy. I pluck up the courage over maybe days, force the words out which is very very difficult, and then she picks my argument apart at the seams and turns it around so I am the pathetic one, so I am the unreasonable one, that it is so hard on her, that it is silly to fall out over one incident, that I am hurting her with my terrible accusations. She then complains to my sibling about how I have said terrible things to her, and hurt her feelings so much, cries, and my sibling rings me at all hours, turns up and knocks and knocks on my door, shouts through my letterbox and asks me to once again think about what I am doing to mother, who has done so much for me, been there for me when I have needed her etc etc.

A lot of my life seems to revolve around how my mother feels, whether my mother is happy, what can be done to please my mother, yet I can't honestly say I feel she is this concerned about me. I cannot bear to see her this week, because I am still very angry over her behaviour, yet I know she will be upset that I don't go to see her.
If I explain how angry I am, she will turn it all back to how embarrassed she felt, how if I disciplined DD more, it wouldn't have happened, how it is not her fault, and surely unless someone admits responsibility, what's the point? She just wouldn't get it IYSWIM.

How do I handle this? Am I making a fuss over very little?

I have no one else I can talk to IRL.

Oh D&S.

Your mother has had such an awful effect on your life. Why have you maintained contact when she has been so incredibly destructive?

I don't mean that in a nasty way, I just can't see how you could think she was a lonely but well-meaning old lady when she did something so horrible to you and your DS? Never mind how horrible she was to you when you were small???

Aren't you afraid she will do the exact same thing with your DD??? I would be terrified of that! There's no way I would risk it!

She has destroyed your DS's sense of family and safety too, not just yours!! Why would you still allow her in your life?

I really don't mean this nastily. I mean it in a "I want to give you a long hug and tell you how precious you are and that you deserve SO MUCH BETTER than this" way...

Doesn't your DP want her out of your life too? Surely he isn't happy about this horrible woman being in your and DD's life?

What does convoluted mean?

oikopolis, I fell out with my mother for over a year after this. I refused to speak to her, went through the nasty phone calls from my sibling, ringing me in the small hours of the night, leaving messages on my phone to say how mother was just trying to help me, and how ungrateful I was for everything they had ever done for me, that they were giving me the opportunity to start afresh, and I was not thinking of anyone but myself as per usual, that I was selfish blah blah blah for not thinking of mother and how this all affected her.

I broke away and apart from hoping I didn't bump into either of them when out and about, everything was fine.

I was banned from going to my mothers house, as you might have expected, and saw DS rarely from then on, so just kept in touch by phone.

A year later, my partner and I split. For many reasons, not just what had happened between my mother, sibling and I.

My eldest sibling (who I had always got on with and had remained in contact with) then phoned my mother to tell her the basics of what had happened wrt my partner and I splitting and told my mother I needed her. It hadn't crossed my mind to speak to my mother tbh. Anyhow, I was all over the place and trusted my eldest sibling when she said it was for the best to get some support from my mother.

My mother came over and I glossed over the details, but explained that my partner and I had split. I asked her to keep it to herself. I didn't want my sibling who had supported my mother in her nasty behaviour and who had phoned SS to have DS removed from me, to know what was going on. My mother arrived at my house, and promptly sat in my living room and phoned my toxic sibling and told her everything RIGHT IN FRONT OF MY EYES!!

I realised then that I had made a mistake, but she was already here, sitting in my house, she was up to date with what had happened, and I didn't want to spoil things again.

I waited 40 minutes until she was off the phone, then asked her why she had phoned sibling to tell her when I asked her not to. She said 'Sibling only wants to help, like I do, she'll know what to do to help you, but she has said that once she has helped you, she doesn't want anything more to do with you.' I said that was fine, because I didn't want nor need her help. 'Stop throwing our help back in our faces D&S!! It's not our fault you and your partner have split is it?? I told you he was a bad one, if you'd listened to me in the first place, you wouldn't be in this mess, it's not siblings fault or mine!!'

A few days later, I phoned my mother. Home phone was engaged, so I called her mobile. She must have fumbled in her bag for her mobile because the next thing I knew, I could hear her talking to someone about my situation, every tiny detail. She must have been in the same room on her home phone, I thought she was talking to me at first, and I started recording the conversation. Then I realised to my horror that she was talking to her FRIEND!!! when I'd specifically asked her to keep it to herself.

Mother does not know to this day that I heard this conversation, where she was telling her friend that she fully expected me to reconcile with my now XP, because 'D&S just never listens, she'll be back with him within 6 weeks, and sibling and I have both told her, we wont be there to pick the pieces up again.'

I never saw the point of raising this with my mother, first she would deny it, then she would just say what she always says 'I'm only trying to help, how do you think this makes me feel, you dump this on me and expect me to cope on my own blah blah.'

I may be naive, but mother has never put DD in the 'golden child' category. She has only ever seen DS as the one who is wonderful, from when he was born, she wanted to mother him. Her relationship with DS is unlike her relationship with any of her other GC, so I honestly don't think she will ever want DD to live with her, or anything like that. She wont even have the other GC to stay at hers unless she feels pushed into a corner. This is why I am probably foolishly not worried.
I know this may sound like a strange thing to say, but mother has always been dismissive of girls, she is dismissive of DD and her other GD's, yet her GS's can do no wrong, and DS, well no matter what he does, she complains but does nothing. Honestly, she treats him like a god, then she complains that he walks all over her. It is almost like a relationship of unrequited passion. Mother revolves her life around him, and he seems not to notice and in fact, not only does he have v little respect for her, he blatantly freezes her out and dislikes her. He doesn't speak to her unless he has to.
Mother compares the way DS is with me to how he is with her constantly.

And again, although that was very long, that is the basics.

Thank you for listening. It helps enormously.

Do you know what, I think you need:

a) to get some counselling to offload all of this stuff, no wonder it is spilling out here, you must have been so frustrated with her all these years

b) realise that your mum really is as immature as a toddler and therefore can be treated (if you choose to stay in touch with her) in a similar firm but non-emotional manner. If she is rude, put the phone down. If she disrespects you, point this out and then withdraw. Don't engage, and if she has a paddy, walk away like you would if your child has a paddy.

I think you need to emotionally protect yourself from this situation, otherwise you are going to get very wrapped up and possibly damaged by it.

Oh and if you may be wondering why DS still lives with her, I can only give you his reasons.

He says his grandma doesn't bother him, he works within walking distance of grandma's and he doesn't want to learn how to cook/clean which he would have to do if he returned home. He doesn't have very much tolerance for DD, and likes his own space which he wouldn't get living with me (small house, 3 people as opposed to small house with just grandma.)
He enjoys living within walking distance of the town centre, whereas I live in the arse end of nowhere, so travelling is more of a problem (he can't drive) and he says he doesn't listen to grandma, just ignores her complaining and ranting.

I have been there when the two of them are arguing, and DS doesn't respond to mother's guilt inducing tactics, or her emotional blackmail. It's almost like he doesn't care how she feels. He seems to shrug it all off and just walks off. Mother just issues constant threats to him that are ridiculously extreme and which she has no intention of carrying out, all said in anger, then expects DS to take her seriously, which he doesn't.
DS doesn't understand my relationship with mother, no matter how I try to explain how hard it is. I suppose he can't understand. He wasn't raised to think of others above and beyond himself at any cost.

Mumsyblouse Thank you for your advice. That is very helpful. I shall certainly be using those tips.

I cannot imagine staying in contact with someone who has behaved to me as you have described to have acted with your son and your xp.

She is an absolute fucking loon, and a dangerous one at that.

If you must remain in contact because you don't feel strong enough to deal with the fallout, then do so on a minimal basis, where you phone once a week, visit her for an hour every so often whilst closely monitoring what she is doing with and saying to your child, and leave if she becomes rude or inappropriate. Don't let her in your house if she can't be polite.

She is bringing nothing positive to your life, and she is going to fuck up your daughter - so don't let her.

Take charge, be strong, and realise that you can control what happens in your own life. Be secure in your own family unit, and make it strong and happy.

Thank you Crocodilio.

I so wish I had stood firm when my eldest sibling phoned my mother and invited her back into my life, but what's done is done, and I am reading these replies and realising that I do in fact need to exercise damage limitation for DD's sake as well as my own.

Sometimes, I think it is not that bad, that my mother means well, but upon reading the replies here, I am feeling stronger, I am feeling angry too, angry that I have allowed her to treat me this way, to disrespect and undermine me this way. I am beginning to see how damaging it is for my relationship with my beautiful DD, for DD to see me being disrespected and undermined by my own mother.

I appreciate your advice Crocodilio. Already, since starting this thread, I have not seen my mother since I started writing. I would usually have seen her by now, but I postponed seeing her, because I am angry at the way she treated both DD and myself.

However, I do not want to raise any suspicion in her that I am avoiding her, because I am not sure I can cope with her meltdowns if she realises that I am withdrawing at the moment.

Lots of things are coming to mind, like when I am on the phone to DS, and mother is standing there and I finish the phone call by saying 'Bye, Love you DS', my mother feigns sticking her fingers down her throat in a 'that is so slushy and sick' gesture.

Makes me feel like I am being weak by saying 'Love you.'

"He says his grandma doesn't bother him, he works within walking distance of grandma's and he doesn't want to learn how to cook/clean which he would have to do if he returned home. He doesn't have very much tolerance for DD, and likes his own space which he wouldn't get living with me (small house, 3 people as opposed to small house with just grandma.)
He enjoys living within walking distance of the town centre, whereas I live in the arse end of nowhere, so travelling is more of a problem (he can't drive) and he says he doesn't listen to grandma, just ignores her complaining and ranting. "

That sounds like a typical teenager/young adult, to be honest. He's been spoilt by your Mum......

D&s you are not weak your mother has done quite a number on you and screwed with your head.

Are you able to get you an your son into family counselling to rebuild a relationship with him?

Oh and keep her away from you dd.

I first read this thread yesterday and haven't stopped thinking about it.

Your mum has an incredible amount of power over you which she abuses. I realise you love her but she is truly evil and toxic.

She has screwed up your son and your relationship with him and is now treating your daughter so horrendously. The things she threatens your daughter with are not acceptable.

I know from my own experience how much power parents like this can have and how it can be incredibly hard to stick up for yourself. But you know full well you have to.

The only way i can see this working is if you have a lot of therapy. Its not going to be quick or easy but you have to do it otherwise you are allowing the dysfunctional behaviour to carry on down your family.

I would also work on your relationship with your son. Would he come back home?

You are going to need a lot of strength.

You need to tell your interfering sibling to fuck off, they have learnt it from your mum. Generally while you are dealing with the counselling which is essential, you need to be hugely distanced from your family. Not including your son of course.

Don't bother engaging in arguments with your mother. She is way too manipulative. You can make a statement without going further into it. For eg i don't wish to see you this week due to your unacceptable behaviour. Do not discuss it any further. Walk away, put down the phone, push her out your front door. Whatever you have to do.

You have guilt regarding your mum because she has taught you to. Counselling can help you unravel this.

I feel for you so much, she has really fucked with your head. You need to do this though otherwise she is going to fuck up your daughter the same way she did you.

She should never have been allowed such influence over your son. Can you talk to him. Will he listen?

DAS: I wasn't trying to belittle the situation with your DS. I hope you don't think I was doing that. I agree with Butterfly that family counselling could be the way to go with your DS.

Your Mum is absolutely toxic. I'd keep her well away from your DD.

But I realise, small steps at a time......

You need to feel that anger, I reckon, to help you deal with her. It's her who has the problems, not you - you are a loving mother putting her children first, and you must continue to do so by minimising the influence that your mother has over you and them. It's not weak to tell your children that you love them, it's normal.

It doesn't matter if she means well, or if she doesn't. It doesn't matter why she does it, if she had a bad childhood, or an abusive husband, or whatever. The fact remains that she does abuse you and your family, and it's time for her to stop.

If you can't cut her out, then short, regular telephone conversations with a time limit are a good way of keeping in contact (so a 5 minute chat then 'must go, dinner will burn if I don't take it out now, nice talking to you, byeeee') or a short visit with some non-confrontational topics of conversation prepared so you can avoid sharing the personal details of your life that she can use against you.

You are prioritising your children's welfare, remember, when it feels like too much to cope with.

Your Dr can usually refer you for counselling op. Are you going to do it!?

Hi DandS, I've been without the internet since I last posted, how bloody awful for you. She's done quite a number on you and your family hasn't she? I know that awful pull of obligation and guilt and how they can blindside you even though your mother has behaved appallingly to you.

I agree with the idea of counselling. I have just had some myself, and though the ideas of my mum being a narcissist and toxic are not new to me, to hear someone else validate my experiences, correctly summarise them (my god-she actually listened. To me!!) and explain about the earliest experiences of my childhood have really helped me. I even recalled a feeling, just out of reach, but definitely there somewhere, about my days as a babe in arms and as a toddler.

It has helped me understand things about me, firstly, that make my actions around my mother and people like her more easy to understand and hopefully, in time, easier to change.

What I'm not quite ready to do yet is "deal" with my mother (in my head, I mean). I think I've accepted that she won't change but that's as far as I've got.

I think what I am saying is that counselling has helped to open these things up to me, and that is helping. It may do the same for you, I hope so.

Sorry for the ramble.

D&S I believe you when you say that your mother won't take DD off you in the same way she did with DS.

But you realise that that is actually not the worst-case scenario here? There are far, far worse things that could happen if you allow this extremely disturbed woman near your DD.

You say she is dismissive of DD. And you describe very disturbed behaviour from your mother. And an utter dismissal of you and your feelings.

Do you understand that if you allow a nasty, abusive and dismissive woman to spend time with your DD, and if you bow to her will in front of DD, keep the peace with her in front of DD, etc. etc. etc. you are saying very very very clearly to DD:

"Darling, Mummy is a piece of dogshit. And you know what, so are you. Granny is right, Mum's not worth the cells she's made of. Neither are you. What's important is to kowtow to those that injure you, because you are not worth anything more than that. It's far more important to placate abusive shitheads than it is to seek happiness and fulfillment in your own life."

Do you understand that by saying this to DD, day in and day out, you are also telling her v clearly, "Please ensure that you marry someone who feels you too are as worthless as dogshit. Ensure that your friends think this of you too. Avoid people who seem to value you; they erroneously believe you have worth, which means they are out of touch with reality. Instead, seek out and be sure to take as much abuse as you possibly can, because you can't expect anything more than that; you are worthless, never forget that."

Then there are other scenarios. When DD is older your mother may start playing her off against you, just as she played your siblings and your son against you. She may not treat DD in the same way as DS, but that doesn't mean she won't manipulate the shit out of her.

You say yourself that your DS seems immune to your mother's manipulations. But you also say that she treats DD in a v different way. Don't you think this means that your DD may be FAR more vulnerable than your DS, since she will be seeking the approval of your mother?

Think about the consequences here... what you fear is not even the worst thing that could happen. It's not even the most likely thing that might happen. Far worse consequences are likely.

You cannot continue like this.
You really really need counselling. And you need to start taking action, for the sake of your daughter if for no other reason.

Spring into action. Take strength from the women here. Call a helpline today, make an appointment with a GP, look up support groups for abuse survivors (there are online ones), anything. This is an emergency situation. Your mother has injured you brutally and laid your life to waste in so many areas. You have lost one child to your mother, you can't stand by while she fucks up the life of the next one.

What an excellent post, Oikopolis.

Listen to oikopolis!

oikopolis I feel as if you know me, how I think, how I feel, and the struggles too. I am gaining such a huge amount from this thread, so thank you thank you thank you.

When you said that by placating my mother, by allowing my mother to spend time with DD, by bowing to my mother's will, I am saying very very clearly to DD that "Darling, Mummy is a piece of dogshit. And you know what, so are you. Granny is right, Mum's not worth the cells she's made of. Neither are you. What's important is to kowtow to those that injure you, because you are not worth anything more than that. It's far more important to placate abusive shitheads than it is to seek happiness and fulfillment in your own life."

Do you understand that by saying this to DD, day in and day out, you are also telling her v clearly, "Please ensure that you marry someone who feels you too are as worthless as dogshit. Ensure that your friends think this of you too. Avoid people who seem to value you; they erroneously believe you have worth, which means they are out of touch with reality. Instead, seek out and be sure to take as much abuse as you possibly can, because you can't expect anything more than that; you are worthless, never forget that."

You are unequivocally absolutely 100 % right, because that perfectly sums up exactly how I feel!!

To think DD may grow up to feel that way too is such a horrendous concept to get my head around. You have put into words exactly how I feel in my day to day life, feelings that somewhere deep inside I don't logically agree with, yet still feel them.
I cannot have my beautiful special enchanting DD destroyed like that.
I spent DS's whole childhood more concerned if he was happy than if he was bright or sporty, no I only wanted him to be happy. I cared not and still don't if he worked scraping dog shit from the pavement, so long as what he did filled him with a happiness, and an eagerness to go to work.

I have been to the doctor's before when I was suffering with depression and was given counselling because apart from the depression, I was having problems coming to terms with my upbringing, and how I was treated. I was put on a waiting list for 6 months, for 6 sessions with a counsellor. At the end of the 6 sessions, the counsellor told me she wasn't going to arrange another session, because she wanted to give me time to think about whether I felt I needed any more help, and if I felt I did, I could phone her and book some more sessions although there may be a further wait.

I didn't phone her back. I thought what she was really trying to say was 'I don't wish to help you anymore, I am fed up of your complaining about something that happened years ago, which you will not address by confronting your mother with what a rubbish mother she was (same for your father) you are like a broken record, going over the same things over and over again and you are boring. You cannot be helped, because you wont move on from things that happened years ago.'

Now, I am not so sure what she meant tbh. My ex partner also went to the GP for counselling and was put on the waiting list for the same counsellor. She works in conjunction with the doctors, so this is what I think will happen if I go to the doctors. I didn't think 6 sessions, at 1 hour a time) was enough, yet this is all someone is offered before they are put back on the waiting list. I also didn't feel I gained very much at all from this counsellor. However, I absolutely do want to have some counselling, to help me to resolve these issues in my life.

Does anyone know how I can access long term counselling? Well, longer than 6 hourly sessions anyway. Would a counsellor be the best person for me to see? (I have previously had CBT and that didn't change my opinion of myself or increase my confidence as much as this thread has tbh.)

The counsellor I saw for 6 weeks did lend me a copy of Susan Forward's book 'toxic parents' or something like that, and I gained a lot from that book, but I do not have my own copy, so maybe it's a good idea to get myself a copy of that, or borrow a copy from the library?

I hope I have not left it too late for DD. I also hope that DS realises how special and wonderful he is. I also hope that my parenting is not as damaging as my mother's has been.

it sounds very much to me that the counsellor is very busy and is under pressure to accept many many patients from the local health authority, so she probably gives every "functional", not-about-to-slit-their-own-throat client "time" in hopes that she can reduce her waiting list by only staying in contact with clients who are utterly desperate. it's got nothing to do with you!! i can promise you that!

i am not actually in the UK so am not much help re: counselling resources. perhaps someone else has suggestions?

have you any money to pay for counselling? if need be.

if counselling ends up not being available, i would look for a support group for abuse survivors. and keep talking here. you can actually detach from your mother, if you want to do it badly enough. it takes two things: planning, and being prepared to cope with the emotions that will overwhelm you. (you have to bear in mind that the emotions you'll feel are just that, emotions. not reality. and they are temporary. after they pass, you will barely remember them. all that will matter is that DD is safe.)

can you start making a list of the things that you need to do next, in order to begin protecting DD?

i'm glad you feel understood here D&S. because you are understood. and the ladies here can help you take the steps you need to get away from this person. x have faith

Speak to your Dr about it. There might be a different service he can refer you to.

Can you afford to pay?

Don't give up on the counselling as i really think its the way forward for you.

I can't afford to pay for counselling. Since I split with my ex partner, I have been on benefits.

This may sound silly, but I just don't know what to say when I go to the doctors. I don't want to see the 'in house' counsellor. I honestly think I need more than 6 hours of counselling.

Apart from that, I am not ready for a confrontation with my mother, and she is expecting to see me today. I am contemplating going to see her today with DD, armed with the advice I have had so far.

I would rather see her at her house, than have her in my house. This way, I can leave rather than ask her to leave my house if she becomes rude or undermines me. My intention is to go for a shorter time than usual.

I hope everyone who has posted does not now lose patience with me for not feeling strong enough to make the break yet. I feel like I am making steps in the right direction, but I also feel tremendous guilt on behalf of DD now, rather than on behalf of my mother.
I just want to do the obligatory visit so as to not raise mother's suspicions just yet.
Have not seen or spoken to mother all week which is most unusual, so I admit I am beginning to become concerned she has seen this thread. I have no idea if she is an mnetter, I don't think she is, but I have never asked her and I don't want to ask her now in case she decides to take a look for herself.

I hope it goes well today, I really do. I feel so guilty that I am taking DD to see the woman who treats her in the ways I have explained.

Am going to do some chores first, and think about this thread whilst I am doing the chores.

Today is a sad day for me. I just don't have the strength to do the right thing right now, yet I don't have the strength for the nastiness (if it happens) either.

Why am I bloody well doing this to DD and myself??

I keep thinking of what oikopolis said;

Darling, Mummy is a piece of dogshit. And you know what, so are you. Granny is right, Mum's not worth the cells she's made of. Neither are you. What's important is to kowtow to those that injure you, because you are not worth anything more than that. It's far more important to placate abusive shitheads than it is to seek happiness and fulfillment in your own life."

Do you understand that by saying this to DD, day in and day out, you are also telling her v clearly, "Please ensure that you marry someone who feels you too are as worthless as dogshit. Ensure that your friends think this of you too. Avoid people who seem to value you; they erroneously believe you have worth, which means they are out of touch with reality. Instead, seek out and be sure to take as much abuse as you possibly can, because you can't expect anything more than that; you are worthless, never forget that."

I think mother takes over because she thinks I am struggling when DD is naughty, but her method of discipline is not the way I want to discipline DD. I feel self conscious disciplining DD in front of my mother, and I have no idea why.
Am I just fooling myself by thinking that mother takes over to help me? Because she sees me struggling?

Am I just fooling myself by thinking that mother takes over to help me?

Most likely yes. She has clearly shown what she's like (ie. NOT a helpful and giving soul)

Why do you think you want to give her that benefit of the doubt?