Has anyone ever told their mum what they really think about them...

[Catsnoise]

... and had a positive outcome?

Bit of background - I didn't have a terrible childhood, I wasn't abused or anything, but in the scheme of things it wasn't good. I don't remember much praise, encouragement, love or affection, but I remember a lot of criticism, coldness, shouting, and humiliation. I've never spoken to my mum about it and we have an okay relationship now, but it's beginning to dawn on me just how much baggage I am carrying around regarding this. It's getting worse as my dds are at the age where I remember a lot of negativity in my childhood, and it's really coming home to me how badly treated I was. There's not a day goes by when I don't think about things that happened to me as a child.

Dh is great, he talks to me about my childhood and would happily listen while I poured out all my anger (but I think I would bore myself, never mind him ). But he honestly believes that I will never have "closure" on this unless I confront my mum herself and tell her just how much damage she did to me and my self-esteem.

Thing is, I don't really think this will help. I think it would just hurt her terribly and wreck the relationship we have now, with no tangible benefits. I don't think I would feel better because the anger I feel now would be replaced by guilt for upsetting her!

Not sure if anyone can offer any advice or whatever, but it may help me just to chat round the subject.

BTW, I am a regular but I have changed my name as my mum knows my mn name.(Clue in the name though!)

First of all, from your description I would say you were abused - emotionally.
I tend to agree with you that confronting your mother wouldn't help - but not because it would hurt her, but because it might hurt you very badly. If she doesn't listen, if she refuses to take it on board, if she twists things against you...
It is so hard to leave things like this alone. So many times I've contacted my parents, looking for some kind of response, looking for 'closure'. It's been like banging my head on a brick wall - their position changes not one bit and that little girl terrified of her parents and desperate for their approval rears her head. That little child is never far away when people who've been hurt by their parents have dealings with them. It's so difficult to overcome.
Could you write a letter to your mum, write it all down, but keep it n a drawer and not send it?
It might help to remember that with your dds you are breaking the pattern, you are doing it better.

You could try writing a letter to her and pour it all out, then rip it up/ burn it without showing her. I don't think she did any of it on purpose from what you said and would be gutted if she knew. However i would tell her as a last resort maybe you would become closer in the end. Your dh sounds lovely and v, supportive.

Thank you - I think you have both hit on valid points. FIT, you are probably right re. the abuse, it's something I have great difficulty getting my head around. It was only really the other day, when my dh said "you know, you really did have a cr*p childhood", when I thought, yes I did, you're right! And the "little girl constantly seeking approval" is definitely me, dh comments on it a lot, it drives him mad sometimes .

Yummy, I think that to a point she didn't really mean to be nasty to me, but that she used me as an emotional punchbag for all her feelings of anger and frustration. Looking back she and I both think she suffered from (undiagnosed therefore untreated) PND after the birth of my db when I was six, which contributed to her situation. However I still don't think that it excuses her behaviour, nor does it explain why it carried on until I left home at the age of 20.

The letter is a good idea; I have considered doing it before.

Thanks for your comments

Like your namechange

I think that it may help you to talk to someone about this, bur not DH and not your mum, a counsellor maybe? Depends how you feel about counselling, really!

Definitely write it all down, but you could burn it rather than keep it - depends how you feel when you've written it down, I suppose x x x

Maybe you would benefit from some innerchild therapy or pschotherapy ( where you "go back in time") I wouldn't like to comment furthur on mum as i don't know either of you. It sounds like you had a really hard time what is your relationship with her like now?

I think that being negative rather than positive was a key feature of many people's parenting styles a generation or two ago!

If you try and measure it by today's standards, most peoples childhoods would be found to be lacking.

I think there is a famous quote that goes 'the The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there!' Which I think more or less sums up the issue

By all means suggest to your Mum that things could have been done differently. However, more importantly, you have a chance to shape your relationship with your own children! Adults have immense power over our children - use it wisely

I agree you need to talk to someone. But i dont think it should be your mum. If you have a good relationship now i dont see that you need to interrupt it.

I say that because something came up with my DM last year, and in an effort to clarify the situation and circumstances my DM asked close family & friends "am i really like this? Do i really do that?" and she was utterly devastated with the replies. It didnt do any good to the circumstances either. Sorry thats quite vague i know!

See if you can get some counselling and take it from there.

x

If i'm not misinterpreting the name change I think Scottish parents had negative parenting down to a fine art quite frankly!

Yes, I did. Told her why I was angry, what effect her parenting style had on my behaviour within my own relationships -including my relationship with her. Got her to acknowledge and apologise and take accountability.

Like Catsnoise, my mum isn't a monster, I wasn't abused etc etc, am really quite priveleged and happy, but there was one big aspect of my mum's character/behaviour/the way she relates (attacks) people close to her that I was angry about because I had learned how to do it to and thought it was normal.

Result was, I was able to let go of the anger, be a better daughter and stand up to her and tell her I wasn't goiing to be labelled negatively any more.

Worked a treat, wish I'd done it 20 years ago.

I think soapbox is right about the past, but if you are unhappy and angry in some form daily about the way your mother treated you then it is a serious and relevant issue.
I think, based on my own experience and I can understand what I think may be, correct me if I'm wrong, your fear of repeating this pattern of negativity with your own daughters - that you should tell you mum you don't want to carry this baggage any more and she has to help you offload.

Good luck

quite the reverse actually we now dont speak. which is good in itself. sometimes you just have to let people go.

I wish to God I could get rid of my relationship with my mum, it is a gigantic thorn in my side and sucks all the joy out of life. Unfortunately all my siblings got there first and now I am stuck as the only person she has got left - she is very dependent on me and has a nasty habit of taking overdoses when she is upset. She also has regular episodes of the screaming phone calls and abusive surreal accusations etc. It is very stressful. I feel quite desperate when I think of it continuing like this for years. I did once (at her invitation) tell her some of the things she has done to hurt me (milder examples, like throwing me out in the middle of the night when I was 11)..she just cried and said she couldn't remember any of it and if I had anything else I should go to a counsellor because it wasn't her responsibility.

At the moment we are in stalemate. DS1 started nursery 5 mornings a week last week, and I had been warning her for weeks that it would mean an end to our rigid "two days a week" arrangement because I would have less time with him myself and would need things to be more flexible, and would need a bit of space, for a while. She called on the evening of his second day at nursery and nonchalantly said that she and my stepdad would pick us up from the nursery two days a week so that things could carry on as normal. I rather shakily stood my ground - I'm not used to it but it is really important this time - and she started crying and accusing me of all sorts of bizarre things. She sent me a really confused strange email saying that I have broken her heart and I am using the nursery as an excuse to cut her off from her grandchildren. I sent one back which detailed all the preparation I had done to get her used to the idea and the fact that I didn't want to stop her seeing them, I just didn't want a formal timetable any more. I know she will take this as being cold and vicious, because it was logical and stiff - I get like that when I am hurt and frightened. She has ignored it for four days and I am now waiting for the weeks of bombardment to start. I had a miscarriage last time she did this. I don't know how I am going to get through it this time.

Sorry - this is a terrible blatant hijack, it was going to be all useful and succinct, but I started writing and it all splurged out. Luckily its 1am so no-one's going to read it anyway

I am so sorry to hear that meanoldmummy.
I think sometimes it is easy to forget that mums can have personal and psychological hangups of their own, caused probably by their own mothers.
I really am worried now, that when my dd grows up, she will think how I may have messed up her life in some way without realising it. Maybe I put her on the naughty step too much.
My mother used to lock me out of the house too, maybe it was a strange form of punishment. Now we do the naughty step. I only do it for two minutes, but it must seem like an eternity for a three year old.
My own mother ws awful by the way. I have tried speaking to her about it, she just gets upset and tell everyone I am lying.

I don't think it will help a lot to talk to her, I believe it will set alive every single negative issue that you now barely remember and that will hurt YOU more than anybody else.

You can't change your past but you can change the present, fight for yourself. My mother still does many of the things she did when I was a child and I found painful. Now when she does them I just stand for myself, sometimes I only need to say "that not a nice thing to say, you know" or if she says things are meant to be in way that sounds unfair to me, I always speak out and tell her it doesn't. So, our relationship it's much better now, obviously I still have some ghosts going around but in some way I feel much better with myself.

yes agree with Chandra, it is possible to get to that stage; being able to stand your ground and refute labes, comments and not get wound up. However if you have anger, then it does help to work it out - but maybe with a counsellor rather than face to face with your mum.

MOM - I know how frightened you must be. When I finally stood my ground with my parents (my mother was the driving force) and refused to leave then dp, now dh, I got IBS, felt sick before speaking to them, developed a fear of the phone ringing (I still jump now), burst into tears with my professor, etc. etc. I got screaming and sobbing on the phone (mainly my mother), accusatory letters from my mother (I was 'driving my dad to a breakdown', it was 'like a bereavement' for them, my mother threatened suicide. It was hideous. It did leave scars. And yet I got through it.
Sounds like yours and mine went to the same school of manipulation. If you don't stand your ground, it will go on and on and on. TYou will compromise more and more of your life. I had to stand up for myself as the alternative would have been to lose the man I loved. The fallout was awful, really awful. But then I was free. You can be too. It might mean the end of your relationship with her, bzt tbh, wouldn't it be better than this? And that is HER responsibility, not YOURS. I know the awful guilt too well. But: Our parents are not our children.
Good luck. I'm always here to talk.

Catsnoise,

I would actually describe your Mum as a toxic parent.

"Toxic Parents" written by Susan Forward may well give some insight here into how such people operate.

DH had a long heart to heart with his father and they ended up not talking for over three years. His father was a prize arse hole who walked out on them when dh was 13 and had no contact at all for many years. He would periodical swan in and think that he had some real relationship with dh and his brothers but he didn't. He was talking the same part with our kids when dh stepped in and basicaly saif, 'You either want a relationship with them or you don't, but you can't mess them around as you did to me'

His father paineted himself as the victim in all of this and it accieved nothing. He died this year. None of his sons went to the funeral. He left over a million and not one penny went to any of the boys. His second wife also got us to pay for the wake!

If you need to do it, them go for it. Just don't excpect any form of resolution or reconciliation. people this crap at being parents just don't seem able to change in any real ways

Catsnoise - that could have been me writing. It was an almost identical situationto mine. As you say, it wasn't abuse but the effect it has on the rest of your life is momentous.

My mother couldn't cope with children once they began to have a mind of their own so withdrew affection and basically ignored them emotionally and physically.

It has a profound effect on the rest of your life and I so much identify with the phrase "not a day goes by without me thinking about what happened to me as a child".

I poured it out to my DH (very long suffering) and I wish, in some ways, I had confronted my parents but I didn't. I was too scared - they were very dominant strong characters and I didn't have the courage to do it (which I am ashamed of). They passed away about 18 months ago so now its too late.

However, firstly, whilst they were alive I had have counselling and that did help somewhat. It was soooo fantastic to talk to someone about it. And I will say that since they died, the endless churning around in my head has stopped totally. I very rarely think now about my childhood - their passing away has made me look forward, not back and its a great feeling.

Good luck with it all

I'm in the same position really - and the birth of my daughter has brought up it all up for me (partly because of the way my parents have behaved and partly because it's made me think about parenting generally). It was emotional abuse. There's no other way to describe it. And I'm not prepared to be spoken to and about in such a disrespectful manner any more. It wasn't until I met my husband and had more interaction with his family that I realised that it was possible for families to deal with each other with politeness and respect.

I take the point about our mothers' own experience with their mothers - but I've spent quite some time listening and trying to console my mother about her experience with her mother (who died last year) - only to find her saying the same things about me, as her mother said about her.

I haven't spoken to either of my parents since New Year (when they behaved atrociously) and I feel much better for it. I don't see any way forward without my telling them what I think. I don't necessarily expect it to make anything better - the last time I wrote to them they just ignored the letter and pretended it hadn't happened - and only started talking to me again when I had a miscarriage. However, I'm not prepared to make small talk and pretend any more. I'd like my child to have a relationship with her grandparents, but I'm not prepared to have her exposed to such toxicity. If I hurt them - well, it's a drop in the ocean compared to the constant pain they've caused me. It's only recently that I've realised how the constant chipping away at one's self-esteem has affected so much I've done or not done in my life.

Thank you all for your comments. I have to go out now but have read and will digest what you say and come back to it later.

Just some quickie random comments before I go - unlike some of you, my mum and I have a fairly OK relationship now (I daresay she thinks it's great ) - she exhibits none of the negativity she had when I was a child, quite the reverse, she is quite proud of me. Deep down I wonder if she feels let off the hook re. her behaviour towards me as a child.

When dd1 was born I think it hit her how different a mother I was to the way she was with me (I was the first born), and she sometimes said "was I too hard on you?" - but all she really wanted to hear was "no, of course not" so I never took the bull by the horns and told her. She's never brought it up since.

I've got two younger brothers, both of whom had (and have) a much better relationship with her. The difference between her attitude towards them and towards me (as a child) was truly breathtaking at times.

I also saw a counsellor when I was at university - ostensibly to deal with an abusive relationship with a previous boyfriend, but we ended up talking about my mum for about 12 weeks! I bottled out before my counsellor felt I was ready to stop; looking back, I was finding out too much about myself and couldn't cope with it at the time. She too encouraged me to talk to my mum about it but at the time I was still too scared of her.

It is so true that our parents' generation seem to think they have no responsibility for the way we are now - but we are constantly told any problems with our children are our fault (by the media etc). We also have a situation where DP's mother will "not remember" quite key moments of humiliation from his childhood, conveniently. I feel a lot of pressure to paint a good picture of childhood for my children and constantly think "will they remember this when they are older", generally about unhappy situations. We do expect more and this has an impact on our own memories.

I was the eldest and think a lot of my mum being crap was that she was only 16 when she had me - and she will readily admit that by the time she got to number 3 she had an idea of what she was doing!

Luckily, my mum is the kind of person you can be honest with - and I have told her exactly how I feel - I suppose it does help that she is now a Social Worker so she understands the benefits of getting ot all out of your system. She doesn't necessarily agree with everything I have said but understands this is my perception etc.

How was your mum brought up? I know for a fact that my mum was a product of her upbringing and the same for me to a point. I mean that we try to do things differently etc.

I think that if you think it would serve not a positive outcome by talking to your Mum - then the letter writing ot seeing a Counsellor are really good ideas. Good luck

Thanks guys.

Soapy - the quote about the past being a foreign country was one I had on my noticeboard as a kid! (And I had "This be the verse" by Philip Larkin hidden in a drawer ).

I am trying to work out what I really want here. I want to not be dwelling on the past so much. I want to have a good relationship with my mum that doesn't carry a shadowy "undertoad" (Prayer for Owen Meany ref.? I think). I suppose what I really want is for her to say "I was horrible to you and I'm so sorry" - unfortunately I think that is highly unlikely. You know what it's like - an apology is worth so much more if you don't have to go looking for it.

QV - I think that's partly what is holding me back - we do have a fairly good relationship now, why spoil it for dubious benefit.

Hotmama - she had an unpleasant and abusive father, and a mother who would never intervene on her or her brother's behalf. I get the impression that her brother might have come in for quite a lot of beating, which her mother didn't stop. Her relationship with her mother has suffered a lot as a result.

Ironically, in a lot of ways she doled out the behaviour of her father to me, and her mother's role was taken on by my dad. I remember several times when she'd been really mean to me, and me sobbing my heart out to my dad, and ending with "but I don't know why I bother telling you, you'll never say anything to her", and to my knowledge he never did.

It's almost impossible to give advice in this situation without it being coloured by our own experiences, but my 2p worth is that confronting your mother will only hurt her and spoil the relationship you have with her now. She knows she was too harsh, otherwise she wouldn't have asked you about it unprompted.

My own mum was often cold and sometimes downright callous to me as a child/teenager (she never locked me out though ), and it was because of her much worse relationship with her own mother and the depression she suffered as a result.

Her relationship with my sister has always been much better, and I think it's because my mum and I are very similar, whereas my sister is more like my dad. My mum just doesn't like herself very much and so finds it difficult seeing the same characteristics in me.

Since becoming a mum myself I do feel a lot of compassion for her (having had a difficult relationship with her throughout my 20s). Now I'm just terrified I'll do the same to my kids .

How about having some more counselling to finish off what you started the last time?