HELP what is worse staying with him or divorce?

[yumyummymummy]

I've never done this chat thing before but i feel so desperately in need of some support that i thought i'd give it a go. To summarise i've been with DH for 7 years we have 2 DS age 2 and 3 and have got to the point where we literally cannot communicate without it being an argument or a venemous exchange. I don't feel love for him anymore i sometimes wish he was dead but then i wonder would that make me feel some love for him even if it was then too late. He is incredibly critical, negative, nasty and unreasonalbe yet he thinks our problems are 99% down to me and he only acts the way he does because of me.
I am so scared of being alone and if i could cope with the boys as sometimes its hard enough with his help. I don't work and my youngest wont start school till sept 08 so i cant see that changing and we have massive overheads each month - probably a good £3,500 with mortgage and bills and just basic living and he is self employed (declaring minimal income for tax purposes)with a brother who is one of the best divorce lawyers in the country so i am terrified of what will happen financially.
I have tried counselling with him but he wasnt prepared to stick at it and have a library of self help books because i am so afraid i will crumble and lose the plot. I have had depression in the past and once ended up hospitalised but checked myself out after 4 days as i realised being in a psychiatric ward at edgware general was worse than being depressed at home! I also knew i would lose him if i didnt pull myself together as he wouldnt come and visit me and didnt believe i needed any help like anti depressants or hospital treatment.
Things used to go in cycles of good and bad but lately its just bad. I feel so terrible for what we could be doing to our beautiful children but some hope somewhere or maybe fear keeps me here still.
I'm also terrified of having to tell people, other parents at nursery, the teachers, neigbours etc i feel ashamed and embarassed. My parents dont even know about the problems though i'm amazed they haven't picked up on the bad vibes.
I turned 40 last year and my life isnt beginning, it feels like its ended and i just exist. i have hardly any social life, i am tired all the time, i think i hate myself and i feel so useless.
I have started some counselling this week which i didnt even ask him to come with to so i know thats a positive move but every day i am crying and feeling dragged down. Reading this back it sounds like i am depressed, maybe i am a bit, but i dont want to rely on pills and surely anyone would find constant bullying and bad atmosphere's depressing.
is there anybody out there who can relate to this or would just like to say hello - i hope so x

Short answer: I'd rather be on my own, homeless and alone, having to start from zero w/my kids, than remain w/an emotionally abusive partner. My kids and I deserve better.

So do you and yours.

Keep going to counselling. On your own.

You have no self esteem. This is why you remain w/an emotionally distant and, it would appear, emotionally abusive spouse.

This is why you ask why it wouldn't be better just to stay w/him and put up w/behaviour that makes you miserable.

Get to a counsellor. NOW!

i dont want to hear that but maybe i need to. I still wonder if you had a hidden camera in my house perhaps you would think its me just as much as him. He says i am the one who is emotionally abusive. i do know sometimes 100% it is him just picking a fight with me but other times it is shades of grey. I can't see the wood for the trees sometimes...
i agree with the self esteem thing - i have all the books its just putting it into practice i find difficult as i just don't feel good enough and he kindly re-inforces that for me constantly.

ps thank you so much for replying it is so comforting to know somebody out there is listening.

You do sound depressed - it's that life is grey feeling. Being even slightly depressed means that it is hard for you to make the changes that you and your boys need. You say you don't want to rely on pills and I do understand the feelings behind that statement, I really do. But this is how I figure it. If you had permanent migraines, a bad back or an ingrowing toenail or anything else that debilitated you day to day and made you feel dreadful, then I am sure you would go to your GP and get some pills for it. Depression is the same thing. Your brain is simply an organ that is not working properly and should be treated as such. There is still too much stigma in seeking treatment for depression (as your stupid dh epitomises) but if pills help you to lift your head enough for you to see a way out for you and your boys, then do it. Once the anti depressants start to work, you will feel more able to take on the big life changes you need to make. Your councellor should help you through this and well done for seeking help. Even coming on here means that you are already stepping away from how your life is into how you need it to be. Well done you x

thank you so much for your wise words. i did go to the doctor about 10 months ago and went so far as to get the prescription but never got the pills. it sounds so shallow but she said a side effect could be weight gain and i have fought really hard to take off the 3 stone i gained with 2 pregnancies a year apart and am currently trying to get off half a stone thats crept back on again. Then i think well if im more bothered about my weight can i really be depressed and in that much need of pills and i answer no. i have been on various different AD's years back so its not that i'm totally against them but i don;t feel i am as low as i was then but then i don;t have to go into an office environmnent now and i don;t really have to face the outside world much - the thought of doing that is not a pleasant one. I suppose my internal scale is if i can;t control the tears outside of my home then i know help is needed. Am probably half way down that slippery slope and clinging on.

If you are half way down the slippery slope, do what anyone would do and reach out for help before you hit the bottom. You know the symptoms and you know how far down you can go. The further down you go, the longer it takes to get up the other side again. Catch yourself.

Classic abuse: the abuser blames you for his/her behaviour. Sorry, but that's textbook. 'You made me do it.' 'If you weren't so XYZ all the time.' 'I only do this b/c you . . .'

thank you i know you are right. its so helpful to hear this from somebody with no emotional bias. i just need to make a list of all the things i can do.(am great one for making lists!)
i exercise as regularly as i can although couldnt get out of bed this morning to get to 10.30 gym class. I have booked to have my hair cut and coloured on tuesday to give myself a lift (hopefully it will look good)and am going to cinema with friend in the evening after 2nd counselling session although haven't told DH i need him to babysit as get scared to ask people for any sort of help. Am also invited out to NCT girls night out on thursday, subject to DH babysitter, but dont know whether to tell them how bad things are.
i sound really selfish and my good feelings about myself seem to be tied up in how i look or what i can buy which isn't a particularly attractive trait.

any suggestions are welcome.

You are not selfish AT ALL. Wow, that you even think you are. Well done for sorting your social life out, and lean on your friends. If you feel comfortable with it, talk to them. It always helps to share your feelings with others - as you have just said about this thread. Women are great. You are great.

And dad's shouldn't 'babysit'. You pay someone to do that. It's called staying in with my child because my partner is going out. If you look at it that way, maybe you won't feel scared to ask him. I am also bad about asking people to do things for me but when it comes to going out, it's my turn, I deserve it and he stays in. And when he wants to go out, the same applies. Now, going out TOGETHER, now that's a different thing altogether...

And the classic "get my dh to 'babysit'" issue - he is your children's father, he isn't "babysitting" and he certainly isn't babysitting "for you".

If you know your NCT group well, I would certainly confide in them. You may find that it starts to lay the groundwork for being able to tell people you're separating, if that's the route you decide to go down.

Nothing wrong in having a good haircut to give yourself a boost, sounds like you need it just now!

My god (hope that is okay to say!) I have never even thought about the 'babysitting' like that. I am crying buckets just to think of it this way. Thank you so much all of you.
My mother in law - who knows whats going on and is quite supportive just called to hear my weepy voice and is coming over now. DH and boys have gone out for a walk which is why i am on this now. expatinscotland, cha and tribpot, i thank you from the bottom of my heart. i hope to chat again soon and feel like i have discovered hidden treasure here. And yes women are just great!xxx

ps DH just called and is as nice as pie on the phone after being really horrible before leaving - that doesn't wash any more as i know the horrible side will be back again before long but i can't understand how he thinks i can just act like nothing's happened or is that a better strategy?

I'm so sorry that you're having such a hard time. Go and have a great night out, enjoy yourself. We women don't do enough once we get our children, I should know and when we have a relationship problem, we always beat ourselves up about. doing the same thing myself at the moment. We all need Mummy-me time as I call it and I'm working on getting more of that too. I think counselling sounds great, an impartial third party to help you work out what you want to do. You need to be strong and happy as being a mummy is hard enough without any other emotional issues. My two ds's are 4 and 2.5 so I know how hard it can be. Take care of yourself and I'll keep checking in in case you want to chat more. In US so bit of time difference

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So sorry to hear your dilemma Yumyummymummy.

You might find this book helpful , 'Too good to leave, too bad to stay' by Mira Kirshenbaum. You can get in on Amazon for about £10. It's a bit heavy in places but I found it very very useful.

Agree with expat don't waste another minute on him think of yourself xx

Just wondering if maybe your DH is depressed too? Mood swings are a classic symptom, and having 2 young children is stressful for many fathers as well as mothers. That said, I left my DH when my DD was 2, and it was by far the best thing I ever did. It was hard, but I felt like a weight had been lifted from my shoulders. DD is now 10, I have fab DP and a DS who is now 3. Life really can get better, just believe that. xx

Don't really know what to say, except that I know how it feels to be scared of the future bringing up your kids a;ons and while its ahorrible feeling gradually it turns into a feeling of opportunity - you have the chance to bring up your children and teach them the values and morals that you would like them to have. They will be your greatest achievement !!

Please feel free to cat me anytime, slightly different situation to yours but totally understand the fear of going it alone and the feelings of depression, but (hopefully) I am on the upward climb out of it now!

I have found talking on here has been one of most helpful things I have done - people are always around and are supportive but don't just tell you what you want to hear like friends can sometimes. Please keep posting whenever you need !! big hugs

this sounds very similar to me

H didnt want me taking ADs
H told me I was "wallowing in self pity" when DR diagnosed PND
H told me his affair was MY fault cos I was miserable to live with etc

IT IS NOT MY FAULT
IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT

one thing I have learned from being on my own is that not all men are like this - most are supportive - mine wasnt - yours doesnt sound it

yes I get lonely when kids have gone to bed BUT our weekends are more relaxed cos the 3 of us are on the same timetable and not hanging around waiting for H to get out of bed at weekends (gone 9am BOTH sat & sun) list is endless

someone on MN said the other day
"better to walk alone than badly accompanied"

how true

I can only echo what others have said. Please believe this isn't your fault. Your husband is using mind games against you. Its called transference! I've been there and have the t-shirt. Everything is somehow your fault, he only shouts at you because you annoy him, he only goes to the pub because he needs to get away from you..... please, the list is endless.

Even in your depressed state (& yes I do think you are depressed) you know that this relationship is not right.

Personally I find reasurrance in facts. I would go and see a good solicitor and just explain your situation, get some information about exactly were you stand. I too was worried that my husband would fight for custody, he is alot more financially secure than I am, but talking to my solicitor reassured me about the strong position I was in. Whether or not his brother is a divorce lawyer I think you will find you too are in a very strong position, you have been the primary carer the courts will take this into account.

As for the depression, I've been there too! I used AD after the unexpected death of my father. I used Citalopram and can't sing its praises enough. It helped make life bearable. For me the effect was almost instant and a 6 month course was all I needed. I also now have a very good cousellor and again I can't sing her praises enough.

Please take some time to look at your options. Don't live in fear, get the facts and then make a considered decision. Use mumsnet, we are all here for you.

I used Lustral and it's fab - good if you're prone to anxiety and panic attacks.

yummyummymummy I am now in my fourth month without an abusive and violent h and I can say it does get better. Sit down and imagine life without him and then look at life with him which feels better?

In the end it is so hard to sort this out because your h makes you feel bad about yourself and that keeps you with him. It is in my opinion a typical last resort of a fearful person and bully. It is totally unsurprising if you are depressed because again keeping you that way means you wont leave. Depression can be sorted and so can all your problems. Dont be bullied and feel free to cat me any time.

thank you again so much everybody - i just don't feel so alone now and it feels so comforting to know that when i feel desperately unhappy i have some support.
Went to bed last night both of us ignoring each other as is now usually the case and thought going to bed by myself would be far more pleasant than this. Had a bad morning again - i had to go out to do something for the kindergarten committe i am on and asked him what time he wanted me back by as he wanted to go to the gym - he didn't answer and then when i asked him again as i left he wouldnt answer and said it doesnt make any difference. Later I ended up in tears after a phone call from him to berate me for taking the 'wrong' set of car keys with me.I write this and it sounds like somebody else's life! My friend was there when he called and thought he was being incredibly petty. He is out with DSs now so i have some time to myself and am going to go up now and have a bath.
i think i am going to go and see a solicitor to see where things stand, i'm not sure i'm quite ready to do anything yet but i feel weak thinking i'll be left destitute post divorce so maybe the reality is slightly better than i fear.
wonder what the rest of the day will bring?!

just had bath (lovely!) and in it realisation that i feel i need to prove it to him that he is being abusive to me. why? is that an impossible task anyway and is it because part of me does think maybe it is me? i know for sure sometimes i don;t act very well but i think its often in response to his abuse but then that's what an abuser says blaming his behaviour on the other one...
think i will do a daily log - i know today for sure both episodes are unfair to me and i did not respond in an inappopriate way to either so i have a clear conscience.
i know my mind goes round and round in circles and that's not good for me or my energy levels....

am trying to fight back tears as i know my weakness makes him worse. he came back in foul mood with me. is talking to me but in very unpleasant tone. i have been scared of asking/telling him about going out on tuesday night so stupidly i haven't mentioned it and he saw the friend i am supposed to be seeing today so she mentioned it to him. this has obviously annoyed him and he's just told me in an agressive way that he is going out monday and wednesday night which is fine with me. i just think here i am so worried about asking him that i haven't and there he goes just telling me he's going out.
i am pleased he is so its not about that its just why am i agnosing about something he doesnt even consider.
and how do i fight back the tears when he's being so unpleasant either in tone or what he's saying.
is anyone there?

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