dp has just made such an offensive statement....

[inbetweener]

I am so angry.

We were having a conversation about an article in the paper about babies and all of a sudden he pipes up with " well I think a DNA test should be offered as standard as soon as your baby is born " Wtf !!!!!

I asked him why and he said that it would stop a lot of men being fooled and forced to bring up another man's child !

I have just flown into a rage and we have had a massive row. He seems not to see how fucking offensive that is. I can't get through to him that that suggests there is no trust !! He said, yeah but it eliminates doubt !!!!!
What !!!
Am I wrong to be so offended ? And wondering where my dh is and who this Dick is in his place !!

that report itself concludes with

It is quite possible, and should certainly be investigated, that in intact families where the man is suspicious enough to have a motherless paternity test, the rate of misattributed paternity really is the 10% or so revealed by these results, at least in Australia

From what I can gather the statistics that say "1 in 6 men are not the baby's father" are taking their stats from the men who underwent DNA testing and NOT the actual population of fathers. So 1 in 6 men who underwent testing were not the father, which means 5 out of 6 men who were suspicious, found out that actually they were wrong.

so that would seem close to the 13% which was attributed for the UK.

I can't see anything in it saying the rate is 0.1% which is what you assert it is.

That's just a quibble over how the introduction of routine DNA testing should be sold to the public. If the consequence is the same (ie it reveals paternity) it doesn't really matter if that was the primary purpose or not.

Privacy is an interesting one. Does a parent (ie a father) have a right to see his child's genetic information, especially if that information is being collected as a matter of routine. parents generally do have that sort of right, and it would be odd to argue that a father shouldnt have that information because it might breach his partner's right to keep her infidelity a secret. That would be a matter for the judges and legislators in Europe though.

"Two years ago statistics were released revealing that one in six men who underwent Paternity Testing on their presumed offspring, were in fact not the father.
The statistics were released by the Child Support Agency, who estimated that around 3,000 men who had DNA paternity testing in 2005 were being unfairly stung for child maintenance. The paternity testing showed they were not in fact the fathers. But around 84% of all the men who came forward for paternity testing through the Child Support Agency were, it turned out, the fathers. The 3,000 men therefore accounts for a relatively small percentage. Of course, for those men paternity testing makes all the difference to them both emotionally and financially."

I don't understand what he's suggesting. Surely any man can ask for a DNA test currently if he feels the need. Is he suggesting it should be done routinely unless you opt out? Offered on the NHS?

Honestly though it sounds like this is more about an issue in your relationship, rather than a debate on policy...

so that one is 16%. its going up all the time!

thelean, I did NOT assert that, I said as you yourself quoted, that was my THOUGHT and not an actual statistic.

This is going round in circles.

Nesbo, granted but surely it is the right of the parents of the child to say what information is gathered from their child? I know when I questioned the tests being carried out on my baby, I was seen as a troublemaker. My dh wasn't even consulted.

The father does have the right to know that it is his child of course, but as for MANDATORY i.e. compulsory. No. If he is that suspicious then fine, let him have the test but otherwise let us start with the presumption that a large majority of women are faithful and are indeed carrying their partner's babies because if you do not have that presumption then what does that say about attitudes towards women and mothers?

thelean, what are you on about? I hope you are doing your proper calculations and taking into account the total number of American fathers (because that was an American site) and then calculating the number going in for paternity tests along with the number who are then revealed not to be the father.

Also I don't get where you are coming from, why are you so keen to prove that loads of men are duped into providing for babies that are not theirs? What is your objective?

TSC - but women's rights and/or feelings don't come into this, don't you see? Men have to be protected from devious witches like us.

rubarb sorry if I quoted you wrong, my error and apologies.

When a child is ill, the hospitals must have a nightmare explaining to dads that, no, there's not a match.

tsc I don't understand. If he has never paid a penny then why do the CSA have his details?

I'm not set on proving anything.
The link I provided had links to worldwide studies of which I took the UK figure (or British, I forget now)

the other link was one you provided, which was australian and not american, and the 16% was from teh CSA, again you provided this

My objective is I was bored at work and you kept arrograntly dismissing people who said it was around 10% so I thought I'd check and they were right and you were wrong.

thelean, the last quote shows quite clearly that of the men who went in for paternity testing (and the site is International Biosciences and whilst it says CSA I'm not sure if it is referring to the UK or not), 5 out of 6 of those men were in fact the fathers.

Compare that to the number of fathers in the UK, just for example and it's a very small percentage.
There are no stats to show exactly how many men in the UK ask for a DNA test which is why the stats are often misleading because 3 men might ask for a test to cover one child - 2 of the men would therefore get negative tests which kind of pollutes the stats. Also, you don't know the circumstances and whether the woman herself has asked the men to get the tests done.

Stats on this are very misleading and so my point is to show that such evidence is not reliable.
Sorry you think I am arrogant, I am in fact just angry that women could be viewed in such a way and am more sensitive today as my niece has just given birth to her first baby so my protective instincts are coming out strong.

So all men should supply a DNA sample at puberty, so it's on file with their NI number, and the children can be paid for.

What a good idea.

The Guardian has the most reliable information, but even they are prone to getting it wrong as their amendment shows: "To clarify the article below, the one in five proportion was of cases in which paternity was resolved through DNA testing in 2007-08; fathers were wrongly identified in 0.2% of overall cases processed by the CSA during that period, or one in 500. Our headline should have said 'One in 500 fathers wrongly identified by mothers in Child Support Agency claims'."

So a total of 0.2% of cases processed by the CSA showed the father was not biological.

lets not argue then therubarb , should be a happy day

It is really
I'm just waiting for dd to come back so we can go together and pick up a few bits and pieces to send to her. I'm a great aunty!

Just hope no-one suggests a DNA testing kit for the father or I would not be responsible for my actions!

Sorry, should have linked to that Guardian article.

Anyway theleanandhungrytype - friends ok? Gotta go, happy debating!

Congrats to your neice.

My fuckwit of a father was convinced I was not his child. He based this on something he'd heard in the army about women not being able to get pregnant the first time they have sex or summat. Notwithstanding the fact that my sibs and I looked like a set of Russian dolls and I have his blood group not my mother's, he believed this shite to the end of his life. He never stopped going on at Mum about it.

What this shows, imo, is that a madman who wants an excuse to punish his wife and child will bloody find one, even it contradicts all known facts. Test all you like, doubters will doubt. DNA tests are only 99% accurate I believe; the crazy guys will all convince themselves they're the statistical exception!

Mind you, I agree with whoever said it'll become part of standard health checks eventually, anyway.

As an adoptee, I find it quite disgusting that a man should only be expected to raise his blood child.

Me, too, CaoMiNa, but I guess that's a whole other touchy subject :(