dp has just made such an offensive statement....

[inbetweener]

I am so angry.

We were having a conversation about an article in the paper about babies and all of a sudden he pipes up with " well I think a DNA test should be offered as standard as soon as your baby is born " Wtf !!!!!

I asked him why and he said that it would stop a lot of men being fooled and forced to bring up another man's child !

I have just flown into a rage and we have had a massive row. He seems not to see how fucking offensive that is. I can't get through to him that that suggests there is no trust !! He said, yeah but it eliminates doubt !!!!!
What !!!
Am I wrong to be so offended ? And wondering where my dh is and who this Dick is in his place !!

Where are the stats? Look at how many babies are born each and every day. Out of all those babies how many fathers do you think are sat there going "I think I'll book my slot on the Jeremy Kyle show, that baby looks nothing like me!"

The majority of all relationships are built on trust and respect. If you trust and respect your partner you would not ask for a DNA test. My dh KNOWS that both of his children are 100% his, he doesn't need further proof and neither do most other fathers. Even where the baby is not his, the majority of mothers come clean and say so.

Just look at Mumsnet, as a snapshot of society if you will. How many threads are there from posters who are wondering if the baby they are carrying is their partner's or not? I can't think of a single one on the 10 years I've been here and don't tell me that they wouldn't talk about that, Mumsnetters talk about being the mistress, wanting abortions etc so of course they would come on anonymously and discuss it. If Mumsnet represents a snapshot then that shows you how often this is an issue.

To ask for a test is completely disrespectful to the woman and what about the repercussions for that baby? Are you saying that to be a father you need to be biologically related? That's a slap in the face for all the wonderful stepdads out there isn't it? Fathers who have been there for every step of their child's life who somehow don't count because that child is not really theirs?

99.9% of men will NEVER be in the position of unknowingly raising another man's baby. Many do know and accept it with grace. If you are so paranoid may I suggest you fit your partner with a bloody tracking device.

women aren't vehicles and men aren't unwitting helpers who are undeserving of the truth

You are also assuming that women lie and would deliberately deceive a partner over not only an affair but the fact that he is not the father of the baby.

I am sure Nesbo that you would be at pains to point out that not all men are rapists. In the same vein, not all women are lying, deceitful bitches which is the implication that you are making.

People lie.

No-one is suggesting that all women do this, but it would be silly to think that no women do this.

another one going on with 'repercussions for the baby'
Being a single parent and splitting up with your partner is not a 'repercussion for the baby' or a punishment! Tell your OH, if he leaves, fine. If he accepts but is unable to love your DC, leave him. Where is the 'repercussion'? How come it is worse being an SP?

I have a friend who found out during their parents divorce that her dad was not her biological dad. The hurt that caused was immense, but it was the hurt of the history of deceit not the hurt of biology.

I am of the view that only being willing to consider raising a child if one has scientific proof that that child is one's genetic offspring makes one a jackass.

The stats I've read say that about 10% of children are being raised by men not their fathers, but who believe that they are.

You seem to be taking this argument very personally Rhubarb and I dont want this to become a bun fight. Personally I trust DW implicitly and I have no intention of asking for a DNA test. That doesn't mean that I would object though if at some time in the future they come as standard. In fact as I said earlier I think it will happen as we will all end up having our DNA logged, it will just be a question of who has access to that info.

The only people who should have real cause to worry about this are the ones who shag around and lie to their partners, but I don't have huge amounts of sympathy for them to be honest!

I don't believe that many women lie on such a huge scale as this and yes Nesbo I am taking this argument personally because I am coming from the point of view of a woman who would wholeheartedly refuse any kind of DNA testing whatsoever and if dh had ever asked for one I would have left straight away because I couldn't be in a partnership without trust and respect.

Programmes like the Jeremy Kyle show make people think that this is a commonplace occurence and it's not - hotDAMN just where are those stats? Because I've googled and can't find any such stats that claim that, again where they in the Daily Mail?

Mandatory DNA testing strips a relationship of that trust and respect and makes the woman feel belittled, as if her very slaggish nature is so well known that hospitals automatically test to make sure the baby is his. It's extremely patronising at best.

"it will just be a question of who has access to that info. "

Well that makes a mockery of the DNA test being as standard doesn't it? It's not the test in itself that is the issue, but what is done with the information that is the crux. And who gets to decide who should see it, and when?

I think that as soon as you start trying to legislate and standardise people's relationships you are opening a large and wriggly can of worms. That isn't how relationships work.

Agreed Orm.

OP, I can see why you would be furious and upset that your partner is doubting that he is the father of your child. However if there were standard DNA tests at the birth of every baby, you would not be having this argument. Women know with 100% certainty if they are the biological mother of a child or not, it seems only fair that men should be given the same certainty.

DNA tests are NOT 100% infallible.

And don't forget about the American woman who was forced to endure officials watching her baby being born to prove it was hers because of doubts over the DNA of her older children. It turned out she was a chimera, with her ovaries/womb having different DNA to the rest of her body, so the DNA of the resulting babies did not match the DNA she provided in a blood sample.

Measuring paternal discrepancy and its public health consequences
Mark A Bellis1, Karen Hughes2, Sara Hughes2, John R Ashton3
estimates 13% of children in UK are fathered by someone who is not the biological father but believes that they are.

Sounds like quite a lot

What I imagine will start to creep in is a full DNA report being produced to highlight potential genetic problems, future health issues etc. it will start off being available only to the wealthy but gradually become more common.

Inevitably this report will give information about parentage and the question might become whether you opt in or out of receiving that info. Cultures develop and in a couple of decades time the idea of not having this information might well seem bizarre to a new generation. It could honestly become as routine as being told what your baby weighs.

If it is routine information included within a whole ream of other DNA analysis why eoplep anyone need to feel degraded or accused by it (unless it revealed something embarrassing)?

Jeez, what happened to "would" in that post!

I meant to add a link

"estimates" but no real stats.

Nesbo, unless you have given birth you have no idea how demeaning it is to have your every being prodded and poked, to have your baby's measurements taken and tutted over as though it's your fault the baby is not average, to be told what you can and cannot do during labour, to have midwives telling you the best way to feed your baby and also to be told to have your baby get all the immunisations and vaccines because to question this policy is to show yourself up as a bad and neglectful mother. Why don't you ask your wife about how she felt during labour and birth and whether she'd be fine with just another routine test to ensure that she hadn't been shagging around?

Dartsagain - useful information and worth remembering.

The creation of a comprehensive DNA database is already underway. Perhaps people will suddenly object to it but I reckon it is going to happen whether you and I like it or not.

A mandatory DNA test is assuming that the woman is not faithful. In fact it is assuming that all women are not faithful, perhaps by some flaw in their gender and that the male right to KNOW whether the baby his partner has just laboured over is biologically his overrides the woman's right for privacy and to be treated with respect.

It is a very dangerous assumption to make and simply encourages a misogynist society who believe that women have less rights than men.

Before long a woman will not be able to have an abortion without the father of the baby also signing a consent form. We must not go down that road.

well the article was in BMJ so it must have been fairly rigorously reviewed

You said above that you thought it was 0.1. Perhaps you could provide some better source which proves this, or are your beliefs more accurate than medical research?

Using this as an argument for a nationwide DNA database is a different thing. The debate is not whether there should be a nationwide DNA database but whether babies should have mandatory testing based on the assumption that the man may not be the real father.

'The OP's DH's view is offensive, because it expresses the view that a woman is just a vehicle for a man's seed.'

I have read some horse-shit in my time, but this is in my top 10. Are you just going to leave it there, or explain how you reached this conclusion?

Here's one link about the unreliability of such information.

I can sort of see his poin though. Of course if a partner asked for a DNA test beccause of doubts he had, or because the relationsip broke down and he was taking a punt that he might be let off some maintenance then of course that would be infuriating. But if it was given to every baby as a matter of course, just like they are given the heel prick and vitamin K - and the parents were legally required to provide a DNA sample as well, where would be the harm?