advice wanted please from those whose DH has had an affair

[winteragony]

I'd like to ask for help and advice from those of you who've been betrayed in the past and come out the other side, one way or the other. I don't want to go into details about my DH's affair and the decision I eventually need to make...what I really want to do is understand myself right now.

It's only been 6 weeks since DH told me about it so I know it's early days, but I just wanted to know if the decision that any of you came to regarding staying with him or kicking him out was one that was there deep down from the beginning, or did it take time to form?

My counsellor tells me to expect my feelings to be like a pendulum and to not make any hasty decisions but to give it plenty of time. I understand that, but I also feel in a kind of limbo at the moment. Also wonder if it might be giving me/him/DCs false hope. My instant reaction, perhaps surprisingly to some, was to work through it...he's full of remorse, desperately sorry and vows to change. He's left his job, severed ties with OW and started counselling himself, so I don't doubt his sincerity to make things work.

However, over the weeks I'm feeling his presence to be oppressive. Because he's not working he's around all the time (I work from home), and I feel such a release when I leave the house to go and do something. Then when I return I actually become nervous of the whole situation, shake and feel sick. Every little thing he does annoys me, silly habits that I previously had put up with. At some of these times I've told him to go away for a time to give me space and I really enjoy the first day or so after that when I feel happier, relieved and confident. But after a couple of days I want to see him again and think that I want to work it out with him so he comes back and the cycle starts again. Maybe if he was gone for good this would stop. The DCs are too upset by these comings and goings though, so he's now around full time to keep things more stable for them. We've been very careful about not arguing in front of them, although the eldest (7) is aware something's not right.

In between these ups and downs I actually feel nothing, just numb, and I find myself resorting to extreme measures to feel something, anything...almost to prove it to myself, or to get him to show his feelings. One snowy night I wandered off with no coat, walking as fast as I could...partly to escape the oppression, partly, I think, to see what he would do...of course he came looking. Another time when I was alone in the house and the DCs were with grandparents, I locked him out and wouldn't answer the phone when he rang. I went on like that for about 20 minutes telling myself if he would actually leave a message on the answerphone I would open the door. Eventually he did just that so I let him in, but I think I wanted to let him show how much he cared and how far he'd go. Also wanted to frighten him, which I succeeded in doing.

Not quite sure why I'm rambling so much, perhaps I hope some of you will have behaved like this and can give me some idea of how I can gain control of myself or when I can know which feeling is the right course of action. How can I go from hatred to indifference to 'maybe we can do it' in a few hours? And how can I block out images of the 2 of them together? Just when I've had an alright day, I watch TV and something will remind me of it all over again, or he'll put his arm around me and I'll only visualise it with her. I've even though of hypnosis! Please help, I'm quite strong usually, but not right now.

Me either. What did your h do OMG?

Ditto re 50

Or even 35 for me, or maybe it means his midlife crisis is over and done with?

OP At least you know what you're up against! My XP tried to keep me sweet for the sake of our business, despite the fact that he was leading a double life with the OW! He lied to me and I realise that he must have been lying to her for several years.

Can identify with everything that you said in your original post; best wishes!

Another one who just discovered 2 weeks ago that H has been cheating on and off for the last 4 years.

I too need some help staying strong. Most of the time I am and most of the time I know I cannot go back and sort this relationship out. I want out but sometimes, I think, wouldn't it be easier to let him come back, confess, grovel and move on?

So even though we are making different choices, the emotions are the same - the swinging like a pendulum.

I have just made an appointment to see a counsellor to see if that can help me stay strong and learn to move on.

But I would love to read experiences from those who left the marriage after an infidelity and decided it wasn't worth working through.

Hope I dont get trashed for saying this.

First, I accept it is never a reasonable way to solve problems to have an affair etc. It is even worse to initially blame the other spouse or other woman, when really it is about their own weakness- there are other ways to resolve marital issues and differences.

However, for those who do have an affair or similar, I think there are different categories - the opportunist, the entitled etc.

But there also seems to be another category- those who manage stress badly, become depressed, see issues raised in a marriage as criticisms of them, etc.

These people tend to use overwork (workaholism) or spending money, or similar, as a way to deal with stress, and it only makes their problems worse, both for themselves and with others, over time. They often have issues from their childhoods, even if well hidden or masked with an easy going exterior. They may develop mental ill health in some way, eg depression.

This latter category, I think, are very prone to what some of our h's have done. And they are the worst at admitting it, even to themselves, because they already feel like 'bad' people.

That is how it seems to me, anyway, because my H and those of a fair proportion of women on this board often identify that they have this kind of husband. I certainly have had, until recently.

Surely people with high self esteem, ie respect for themselves, and therefore respect for others, find it easier to acknowledge problems both in themselves and in their marriages. So affairs are unnecessary to them, or they find them unacceptable.

Exactly. You think you are a good and worthwhile person, at heart. That is high self esteem. Some people may be confident in society, but it has nothing to do with their real feelings if self esteem, just how they feel about interaction with others at a superficial level.

of, not if

With my H, he suffered from depression, really bad IBS-type problems, sleeplessness and now looking back, it looks to me like it was guilt eating him up. Guilt because he crossed the line, but didn't stop him from repeatedly crossing the line for over a period of 4 years!

But I do agree, I think he has very low self-esteem. In his depressive state, he often spoke of self-loathing (and now looking back, it looks like he hated himself for doing what he did but he didn't hate himself enough to STOP doing it)

H is also seeing a psychologist for treatment for his depression, but he never came clean with her either about the affair / s he was having, so it seemed they could never get to the root of what caused it.

My DH certainly has had very low self-esteem for the whole time he had the affair, and may even have been depressed before that. He saw a GP just over a year ago with 'work stress' but depression was missed and he was just signed off for a few weeks. Seems he wanted some kind of help but couldn't bring himself to admit the truth then and it just went massively downhill from that point.

Amychanger 'looking back, it looks like he hated himself for doing what he did but he didn't hate himself enough to STOP doing it' is so true of my DH too, and the handling stress badly.

We did the 'happiness graph' from Not Just Friends last night for those of you that know this...basically you draw a timeline and plot how happy you were along the line at various milestones in your life. We both did it separately and it was amazing to see that the happiest time of my life (from 4 years ago to 8 months ago) coincided with his absolute lowest time because of the affair. He hadn't noticed me being happy he said, just thought I was stressed and shouting all the time, while I hadn't seen his negativity because he bottled it up and said nothing about work. So he has lived with a false happy mask all that time.

Are your Hs currently on meds? Before I found out about the affair / s, I suspected but was always told I was too suspicious and because he was diagnosed with depression, then I started looking for other explanations too.

One of the things I read was something called Depression Fallout, where it explains that some depressed spouses start affairs to try and "feel" something.

However, I don't think this was the case with my H, I think he crossed a line, couldn't deal with the guilt and that kicked off his depression.

I think my H kind of fits into the category fiventhree describes. He was sexually abused as a child and has no self esteem, but he covers it well with either his easy going and confident exterior or an almost intimidating one

He had a one night stand and apparently the reasons why are linked to his past abuse, such as not feeling that he has the right to say no (in any situation not just sexual ones), lack of boundaries and dissociation.

Its still hard to deal with though, even understanding the links

I have started another thread tonight - but just wanted to say fiveinthree's posts really resonate with me. Husband just cannot seem to understand there are boundaries and you can't just take what you want.

Fiventhree. You have described the man I married brilliantly. Wow.

Five, Amy and OMG make such great points.

Clever, clever OMG! (to get it in writing)

Amy the depression fallout is so true. I also got sidetracked from my gut feel as he was quite open about the distress and depression and feeling absolutely numb. He also failed to tell his psych he was having an affair.

Regarding the not ending it and not telling IC, I was told by counsellor that would mean he would have to deal with the reality - his issues.

'The longer an affair goes on, the harder it is to stop'. Not love, not attachment, but losing the fantasy [he's in control, the ego boost, avoiding his problems].

I have been told frankly by him and the counsellor that he used OW and that she as a valuable human being was irrelevant. Poor OW found this out when she was briskly sacked as his special friend 4 days after their beautiful week together in London when he told her that his wife knew (day 3) and that he loved his wife and they could never see eachother again (day 4). I feel sympathy for her because she got screwed, too. It really is all about them! You have to be really stupid or have a very low self-esteem to be an OW in my opinion.

Five in my opinion makes the most important point: that these men are cut off from their feelings and distress (defenses learned in childhood), are dissociated and split, and use the following to keep themselves apart: work, sport, hobbies, spending, alcohol, drugs, sex. I was told by a Relate counsellor that these 'living behind a wall men' will choose jobs - City bankers, law, oil rigs, ex pat contracts etc that keep them apart.

This for me was the biggest shock: that he wasn't who I thought he was. That I lived for 20 years with someone I assumed I knew. That he had a whole inner world of thoughts and secrets I was not party to. This does not mean he is a bad man, but I had no idea he was so shut down and I didn't listen when he tried to tell me. 'When someone tells you who they are, believe them' - Maya Angelou

So, you know, whatever he has done, those are things I need to look at. Why I 'recognised' him (whaddayaknow, my father was a narcissist). Why I accepted lack of intimacy as a way of being, even at the cost of anxiety and depression. Why I went along with him not acknowledging my feelings and needs. Why I agreed with him that his agenda was paramount. That is MY sh*t that I have to deal with.

And that I think gives me a bit of empathy and keeps us together, recognising I am the other side of his coin (although I am with OMG I am fucking furious). That with OMG I also believe I have to sort myself out too before I decide what to do.
In the mean time, he is like Mr Amy and Mr OMG getting help and time will tell if he lets go of his ancient terrible life diminishing defenses. But I am not holding my breath, and nor is it my problem!! (gosh I have changed I really used to live for and through this person)

IC again: 'often separation/divorce is a way of trying to contain the chaos [of the split man's inner world]'

Still thinking about that one! But one thing is for complete sure: their inner chaos and the strategies they use to try and contain it, causes ripples of pain for the people around them, in ever widening circles.

Afterthought: OMG - "I find it hard to believe that I have higher self esteem than my h, wheni feel so screwed over. But I guess right now, I feel I am a good and worthwhile person."

Maybe a better word than high self-esteem is, integrity? That no matter what, no matter how difficult we found life or how bad we felt, we had enough integrity/sense of self to not fall into self-indulgent behaviours that would hurt other people?

God, this is all so eerily true of my stbx. These are brilliant posts everyone.

Just wanted to agree that there have been some brilliant posts here

I'm now 3 years down the line (almost to the day DH first had sex with OW ). It has been very hard and much soul searching by both of us. DH didn't change overnight - indeed it would be foolish to think that behaviours that have been ingrained over 40 yrs are going to change in a matter of weeks. I have had to look at myself wrt co-dependency (might be relevent to us all to some degree).

My DH's affair was the pinnacle of his "breakdown", his choice of OW confirmed this. He chose to self destruct in everyway possible including financial (gambling high stakes and high risks), neglect of health culminating in being hospitalised with pneumonia, overeating til obese, neglect of business creating even move financial pressure/stress and ultimately affair with a high unsuitable woman including having unprotected sex the first time .

He had an incredibly dysfunctional childhood including sexual abuse, a mother who could only show her love by feeding him, a grandmother who dominated the whole household and a weak, ineffectual father. He didn't stand a chance really .

The ripple effect is so true Wobbly - the wider family were also traumatised by what DH, his relationship with my brother has never been the same. For his DM, it brought back the feelings of when her DF deserted his family and as she said, he wasn't just taking himself down, he was taking me and the DCs with him because we were going to end up with nothing the way things were going. To be fair to DH and to his credit, he realised that things had to change and asked to go to Relate with me (had already booked appt for myself when I found out what he was up to and on advice from solicitor as I was in such a state).

He took himself back to counselling a year ago as he was still struggling with himself (very interesting to read your H's psych's take on things Wobbly) and has managed to conquer his overeating demons too now (the last thing he need to get control over as it were).

Good luck to everyone here . We still have god awful days when life gets on top of us both but we both have better communication skills now, recognise our own feelings/anxieties/stresses and acknowledge them to each other.