Coffee date with Narc Mother - expecting a grilling. Please help

[PolkaDotsAndPumpkin]

My mother has definite narc tendencies. I have been trying to put a little distance between us, but am not going to go no contact.
However, she has decided that we need to 'have a coffee' tomorrow and I know that she is going to have a go at me about why I have been 'ignoring' her (her words to another family member, who warned me about this).
My problem is that I need to be able to contain the situation. Historically, when I try and be honest with her she twists it all around and gets hysterical and projects all over me. I absolutely cannot win.

Please suggest some things I can say to her when she asks me why I haven't been in touch much.

Any other suggestions about how to handle this are welcome. For the record I am in therapy but have been having a break over Christmas/New Year.

Thanks in advance

Could you try indulging her rather than trying to be honest..? ie 'Yes mum, you're right, bad of me, Im so sorry tho, just been so stressed/busy/up to my eyes etc, but yes I realise it must be upsetting, didnt mean to actually ignore you' and give her as little ammunition as possible to get uptight..?

If you agree with her she may have the wind taken out of her sails. Or not of course

Sorry if suggestion is crap, tis hard when a parent cant be reasoned with or talked to honestly.

I was thinking of taking the stressed/busy option. I kind of am to be honest!

The thing is, I could probably pull that off in a less intense situation, but actually sitting down with her to 'talk' (on her terms of course) is far more likely to end in disaster :(

Whatever reasons you cite re lack of contact, she will not be interested. It will be all your fault anyway regardless.

It is simply not possible to maintain any sort of relationship with a narcissist.
Cancel the meeting; don't give her the power and control because this is what it is all about as well. NPD people certainly have nasty mouths on them and you could end up getting both barrels verbally from her.

I would not meet your mother and go NC as of now; this is all on her terms and it will not go well for you. It could knock some progress back that you've made during therapy as well. Will you be able to resume this soon?.

Going back next week. Not a moment too soon it seems.

My ultimate aim is to insulate myself from her behaviour. That is why I don't see the need to go NC.

But I see your point.

having lived through this for years, and finally broken the circle : the one thing i'd suugest is don't say you're too busy, she'll probably just feel like she needs to help more, or comment on how she knew you weren't coping.

actually if she's anything like my narc mum, whatever you say she will probably twist it and make you feel bad, or sorry for her. you're better off just not going tbh lol

she won't learn unless you're honest, and when you're strong enough to have that conversation with her, be prepared for fireworks.

Tell her things are going really well thanks, you've picked up some work, study, new gym class, whatever and although you'd like to see her more that you think once a month (whatever is more realistic). Keep it bright and breezy? Don't apologise, say more yes that's a pity, sorry you feel ignored really not the intention etc. is that possible for you?

I don't understand why you are going to meet her? I no you say you don't want no contact but you know this meeting is going to go badly, so why do it? Sorry if you find this unhelpful but I genuinely don't understand.

Or be totally non commital -hmmm, oh? I see. Best not to go really.

I do understand not wanting to cut her out. Any other person like it you might run away from without a backward glance, but this is your own mother, however undeserving of the role, so entwined with the person you are that it would be like cutting a limb off. Sometimes it has to be done, but nobody who is not deeply narcissistic themselves ever does it lightly. (My heart aches for the ones who've done it, because there is no way that decision was easy. Those of us who were lucky enough to have loving, unselfish mothers can only thank God we don't understand.)

Fortunately I don't have much direct experience with narcissists (though it's scary how many people you meet every day tend in that direction). I do know enough, though, to state that being honest is not going to help as your view of the world is quite different from hers. In your conversations everything is about her because from her point of view, everything really is. She is never going to step into your shoes and she is never, never going to understand, let alone admit, that anything is ever her fault.

So if you're busy, it's not because you've got stuff to do in your life that must be done, it's because you must be saying your stuff is more important than her so she will be hurt by it. You have committed the crime, failing to be available, and any attempts to defend yourself are further personal rebuffs to her. If a sentence doesn't have her in it, either she'll hear it as if it did or she won't hear it at all. Thus containment will largely consist of encouraging her to talk about herself and then the focus will be off you, the erring daughter!

Zero - I don't know why either. I just know that I'm not ready for the fireworks. It just seems simpler to me to go.

I would like to be able to control my feelings and what I say because it's my choice, rather than do it because I have no choice, if that makes sense?

I think you feel the need to attend OP through something know to us suffers of toxic families as the FOG - fear, obligation and guilt....the FOG is a deep seated part of their toxic influence over us for many years.

If I were you I wouldn't attend the coffee meeting, but I am NC with my lot so for me NOT going wins hands down to having to put myself back in the firing line yet again.

Hi Polkadots. You could say you needed to rest as you have been unwell (unwell in her company, so the truth really). If she responds negatively to that well that will flag up her selfishness very clearly.

A coffee meeting is short so agree with poster you could just be pleasant and breezy.

However, if you are walking on eggshells I doubt its ever going to be a pleasant experience though. You could practice objectivity and disengagement. Keep it short and sweet, and leave as soon as you feel its getting unpleasant. But no easy answers ...

I find understanding how they tick is helpful. Alexander Lowens book on narcissism , despite it's Freudian bent, is eye opening.

If you are going to continue contact I'd just go for the brutally honest option. I haven't been in contact because I didn't want to be.

You said 'I cannot win.'

Unfortunately, no matter what you say or do, you will not win. If you don't want to go NC, you will have to put up with her crap and the effect it has on you. Even if you smile and nod nicely. You will come out of that meeting wishing there was a hole you could crawl into.

Narc mothers are a chore at best and soul destroying at worst. I know. I haven't talked to mine in over a year. Life has never been more peaceful.

Can I suggest the Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers website? SO informative and loads of people going through the same thing.

Good luck and please remember.....you are so much more than she thinks you are!

Also you said, OP....'My ultimate aim is to insulate myself from her behaviour. That is why I don't see the need to go NC.'

If you can insulate yourself emotionally from her without going NC, then you must have the thickest skin in the world. I've never heard of a human being that can turn off their emotions, robots yes, normal, loving human beings....no. You are not a robot.

Don't set yourself up for failure on this one. It's OK to stay away from her if it means saving your emotional integrity and wellbeing.

A little piece of me died each time after spending time with my Narc mum. She kept chipping away at my soul, destroying me and my family. I never knew the power people could have over each other until I wised up.

Save yourself years of second-guessing and feeling like crap. Would you have a friend in your life who did this to you? Would you do this to your children, your husband?

You deserve better, but like a lot of us out there.....we got the royal shaft when it came to mothers.

PDAP,
A coping mechanism is to go numb and dormant. Neither is mentally healthy for you. Do not get emotional. Give vague responses and repeat repeat repeat repeat as a brick wall until she either storms off because she didn't manipulate an answer out of you or she changes the subject with pursed lips attitude lathered on.

Such interviews usually are script based. Do not presume to be apart of the script or one of the players she is controlling as director/stage manager for this production to benefit her ego supply. Shrugging shoulders and saying you do not know (and she can not force you to know) repeat repeat repeat may offer some sort of shield to your self-esteem.

Another way might be to approach the meeting as if you are a monitor and you are taking notes on the social dynamics this woman is going to demonstrate for you. A detached position...sort of like you are a third party observer.

Attila is spot on though. Number One answer is do not go. If that is not an option for you, could you possibly take someone with you? That would change the dynamics dramatically.

I would see her tomorrow but if she starts asking why you avoid her you could say that she often seems to criticise and belittle you and you come away from seeing her feeling worse not better. if she keeps going on just say "look you are doing it now, you wonder why I don't want to see you and it's because you are just critical and argumentative. If we enjoyed our time together and you seemed to like being with me and enjoy my company I'd see more of you".
If she won't stop keep the meeting short and next time she wants to meet up tell her you will only go if she agrees not to criticise you or moan about your relationship.

Sorry for not replying earlier. I am in a different timezone to the UK. Have been asleep :)

Eclectic - I already try to use the 'monitor' approach when we are in a group situation so this did cross my mind as a useful strategy.

Thanks all for your thoughts.
Fingers crossed....

Has she been in contact with you? Why is it down to you to make contact?

Along with the shutting down and numb exterior suggested by Eclectic I suggest a tactic described by a poster on MN a while ago.

Sit at a right angle to her and look beyond her, not at her. This takes away her power, and removes her as centre of your attention.

Superficial and noncommittal answers whilst looking anywhere but at her are the way forward.

Go to the meeting intending to keep all your power. Do not hand any over to her. You can be polite but unyielding. Tell her nothing of importance.

Be very boring. Do not show any emotion and keep the same blank expression on your face the whole time.

Or just don't go.

That sounds really rude. i would never treat anyone like that. if I couldn't be civil to someone I wouldn't meet them Playing silly mindgames and refusing to look at the person you are talking to is degrading you, not her. Go and talk to her or don't bothjer. Don't piss about.

Prepare a list of questions to ask her about herself and her life. Fob off all her questions with something non-committal (or "mmm, right, could you pass the sugar" and then dive in with your next bright and breezy question. All about HER. That should go down well. If she is persistent then try "I don't want to talk about that".

But be prepared to walk out. Make sure you pay for that coffee up-front. If she starts being really horrid to you, say "If you can't be nice I shall leave". If she gets hysterical, say "Mum you're embarassing us both, stop it or I shall leave". And if she carries on, leave. Its not like you've got a relationship to damage, is it?

It would be rude if the person you are meeting was a normal person. With a narc it is all about protecting yourself, not pissing about.

Have you been brought up by these people or know many in RL? Lucky you, that you don't have to act like that to preserve your own mental health.

They drive you to suicide, as I well know.

I did say also, 'or don't go'.

Imagine a river between you and she cannot swim. Better now?
Seriously though I feel your pain as I have one of these delightful mothers too. I keep it all about the kids now and if she tries to pry I just go quiet. She's getting used to it.
In your situation with the coffee just feign ignorance "oh has it been that long? Goodness." etc don't feed her.
Good luck.

You have nothing to gain by going.

Except if you want to prove yourself.

But you said "I absolutely cannot win."

So don't go until you feel like you can

That'll probably be never.

By virtue of being your mother, she has a huge amount of power over you. It's how relationships work. Unfortunately she's using this power to rip you apart, not build you up as a loving mum would do. You'll NEVER be able to be detached- she's your mum FFS, what she says will always have power over you no matter how hard you try. Not your fault, just a fact of life. Don't go- you've nothing to prove and nothing to gain.