Another one

[Amychanger]

I am a long time lurker.

Long story short, I think or I know H is having an affair. I looked at his telephone records online and discovered he was away in January in a different country to that which he was supposed to be traveling to. H travels a lot with his work.

Since this trip, he has been texting or making calls to this one number which I rang yesterday. Woman answered (surprise, surprise)

He is currently away on another work trip and due back tomorrow.

When I saw the phone records yesterday, I rang him and asked if he had anything to tell me and asked where he was last month. He is insistent he was where he says he was (he doesn't know I've seen the phone records). Keeps asking me what this is about, and then says we can talk about it when he comes home.

I told him I didn't want him to come home for a few weeks, really so I can get my head together.

I think the marriage is over and has been for a long time; and tbh, I suspect he has either been having affairs or emotional affairs as his phone is never available for me to look at but he is always looking at it.

I feel angry and relieved at the same time. Angry that he has finally done what he always professes never to do and relieved that all these years, he was checking his mobile in bed and telling me I was too suspicious and wouldn't trust him, that I can trust my instincts.

Putting this down is cathartic but also gives me the resolve to call time.

My children will be heartbroken and I want to try and keep things as normal as possible for them as there are some major events coming for them in the next 4 months.

Is it possible to not tell them we are splitting up until the summer holidays? Has anyone done this and live this "pretend" life just till we get these events out of the way?

Swallowed, yes, I was just thinking that if she came back now then she may be seen as the one who has walked out and behaved unreasonably - therefore things could become very difficult. It sounds from the H's last email that he could easily turn nasty and knows he can prevent her returning to the UK.

Totally agree with your 2nd para. We lived in Oz for 5 years, DH wanted (wants) to return. I don't. But I do empathize with those feelings of isolation & loneliness if you're overseas and your marriage is going tits up. The whole overseas aspect adds a complication to an already difficult situation.

Ours is a mixed marriage, I don't hold UK passport but H and DC do. I would have no family support back in the UK but have friends and if needed, ILs.

I want to be back in the UK and petition for divorce there as I think I would be better protected than where we are now (Asia). I am also better able to support my DC in the UK as I would be able to work.

I am ok financially, even if he decides to be nasty and withhold his salary from us for the next few months (something I learnt from my parents marriage)

Sorry I am not big on giving out details, he knows I use MN and I am worried he might start reading.

As for not leaving immediately, the DC have lots of things coming up in the next few months. They love where they are and I just want to keep things constant and consistent for them up until school is over for the year.

Amy, as you don't have a British passport, do you know what right of residence you have in Britain if you are either separated or divorced from your husband? Is that something you need to check with an expert?

I have indefinite leave to remain in the UK, I have lived in the UK for many years but just never applied for passport.

Just told some RL g/friends and feel so much better.

ok so if h is british i can't see him having power to make you stay anywhere there than his home country in these situations - don't take my word for it though. is the country you are in your home country or is that elsewhere (not asking for names just whether you are a citizen of where you are)?

not having a uk passport or residency obviously does lend some support to his saying don't just assume you can take the children back to the uk. he might be pointing out the technicalities rather than a menacing threat iyswim.

Glad you've told some RL friends. Do please get some legal advice too on the situation too. All the very best, you are coming across in your posts that you are coping really well with it, keep your strength up.

In the case of a British couple who move abroad, if the relationship breaks down while they are living abroad and one parent wants to return to the UK, that parent needs to have the other parent?s consent to take the child or children with them. If he or she doesn't have consent, he/she needs the permission of the courts in the country where the family is living.

In this case the situation is even more complicated, as one of the couple isn't British.

Also, you generally lose indefinite leave to remain if you have been away from the UK for more than two years - I don't think you've said how long you've lived where you are, Amy. I'm not an expert, so I don't know whether short visits / holidays to the UK would keep the leave to remain active.

All in all, I would strongly recommend getting legal advice as soon as possible.

"elsewhere on these boards you are encouraging women to stay with violent abusive partners and see it as a control game to be won strategically"

that is your reading of it.

Regarding DV I have ALREADY apologised and explained that I posted clumsily (we, afterall, live and learn do we not) and should have posted with a 'what do you think of this?' to start the debate. I will not make that mistake again, but don't tell me what I think and what I advocate.

And to not acknowledge any relationship dynamics at all but to stick to simplistic victimhood (all men - bastards, women - innocent angels who don't have to look at anything) that can prevail here is just, well, ....

The fact that Mumsnet has been referred to in MSM as 'a nest of vipers' and a whole body of really important [opinions/social forces/political weight/intelligence] can be DISMISSED because of the aggressive emotional finger pointing of a few, is worrying.

There is a lot of name-calling, sweeping statements and extrapolation on this site which does not happen on other forums.

To aggressively and scathingly dismiss, call someone 'mad' and 'dysfunctional', because they have put forward a concept or expressed a vulnerability posters don't like or want to think about;
to call 'homewrecker', 'whore' and worse, and wishing cruelty on behaviour posters don't approve of on this forum,
is shockingly disrespectful and something MNHQ should be looking at IMO.
There are some posters who are so frankly rude, emotionally projecting and dismissive that they could do with a week's ban to learn a) some manners and b) some restraint.

'I might not like what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it'.
I would like to add to that 'and I will give you the courtesy of thinking about it and giving you a measured reply'.

Sorry for the mini hijack Amy, but please, anyone reading this can they think about it. Hold the automatic kneejerk emotive dismissive responses, and think about it.

tbh i found that post pretty incoherent so find it hard to respond to.

no knee jerk response here - i've always thought that encouraging women to blame themselves and see themselves as needing to fix things in a violent relationship is wrong and dangerous.

anyway this thread is not about that is it but i'll happily discuss it on your thread if you fancy returning to it.

oh well, that makes it all right to dismiss then. Fly has decided.

Which rather proves my point. There is absolutely nothing hard to respond to, at all.

Amy, I apologise for the hijack, I should have posted Fly direct.

Good luck with your legal advice.

Penguin, if the children are British subjects, how would that affect their mother's status?

I don't know, Wobbly. It's yet another of the factors that I think make it imperative to seek legal advice.

I have finally managed to get H to agree that he will tell the children he has met someone else and that is why we are separating and we will do this on Saturday.

Now I am having second thoughts about damaging DC and thinking maybe they don't need to know the detail.

My DC are 10 and under and I just don't know what's right to tell them. I waver between not telling them any lies and not telling them the real reason why we are separating.

i personally think chlldren are best told the truth - finding out your parents have lied to you and kept things from you later on or gut feeling they have at the time can be really disorientating and create a basic insecurity more than well delivered and supported truth imo.

Amy, please don't give him the opportunity to meet face to face to 'explain' his behaviour...I am confident that he will give you multiple reasons why YOUR behaviour left him no alternative but to cheat on you and this will leave you feeling even worse than you do already.

It is his fault, his choice, not yours, and you need to keep telling yourself that because he will try and convince you otherwise.

Amy it's always best to tell children the truth. If he has agreed to admit to them there is someone else, he must be confident that the relationship is going to last.

I think it would be more helpful to think more about the aftermath once he has gone again. That's when you might get questions, or a reaction that will be painful or confusing for you. Give them truthful answers that are appropriate to their age i.e "I don't know if Daddy's relationship will last", "I don't know who she is and what she is like", "Yes I am very sad" and - if you get any innocent questions about why your marriage can't continue despite this - "when you're married, you're not allowed to have a girlfriend as well."

Children need to make sense of a sudden break-up, especially if before all seemed fine and there were no rows. It's worse for them if they are left to fill in gaps in the information they've been given and sometimes they hit out at the parent who's refusing to continue the marriage and blame that person for not being 'forgiving' enough. They do need to understand that their Dad has chosen the other relationship, but that he hasn't chosen it above them and that you will always encourage a good relationship with him in the future.

"Amy, please don't give him the opportunity to meet face to face to 'explain' his behaviour...I am confident that he will give you multiple reasons why YOUR behaviour left him no alternative but to cheat on you and this will leave you feeling even worse than you do already.

It is his fault, his choice, not yours, and you need to keep telling yourself that because he will try and convince you otherwise."

Absolutely. If you ever have a meeting, have it with a psychologist so he can't do this.

Shirley Glass suggests 'Daddy got too close to another woman'... I think Charbon's 'when you are married you're not allowed to have a girlfriend' is really good.

Amy, I just wanted to comment on your citizenship. I, too, have indefinite leave to remain in the UK but this is not the same as having British citizenship. You cannot apply for a passport until you have received your citizenship. If you are living outside the Uk you can lose your indefinite leave to remain status.

Thanks for the advice - I am not meeting him face to face until we tell the kids together this w/end and then thereafter, I want to have as little contact as possible, eg. picking up the rest of his things or picking / dropping kids off.

Potoroo - thanks, part of the reason I want to return to the UK.

H is coming round tomorrow and we are telling DC that we ate separating.

I feel anxious & sad.

But also very, very angry as he seems to be just getting on with his life.

Had cordial emails and he is making appointments to come and get his stuff. WHY isn't he suffering and in pain?

Because he detached a long time ago Amy and because he's invested his all in this other relationship. He's had at least 4 years to wean himself off his relationship with you and unfortunately, from his relationship with the DCs too.
Remember too that the OW will have been putting her own pressure on too, convincing him that the children will be happier with you apart, that a happy Daddy makes for happy kids and other trite balderdash of the 'we've only got one life' variety. He's been listening and trying to convince himself of this for years and needed to, in order to justify what he was doing.

What he forgot was that you and the children weren't on the same page and for you, the story has only just started and you've got some way to catch up.

Good luck tomorrow. Be truthful and don't let him off the hook and get away with telling the children any lies.

What Charbon says.

You are in shock and awe, and he has had control of the information for a long, long time.

I do think you should meet in a neutral place with an experienced practitioner, I really do....

Take care of yourself.