Problem with a friend....

[Silveryfox]

Not sure if this is the right place to put this, but I have a problem that I just don't really know how to approach....

My friend and I both have boys the same age - 2 1/2, and they both go to the same nursery. They have been best buds since birth really - we were in the same NCT group, and ended up sending them both to the same nursery. As they've got older, they have acted more and more like brothers - they love each other, and are always pleased to see each other, but they also fight and bicker over toys at nursery and whenever they are together really.

I've never had a problem with any of this - I'm not a "helicopter" parent but just recently I've noticed more and more that whenever my friend is there and both boys are together she has started what I can only describe as gaslighting my boy. Don't know if thats the right term, but basically both boys are evenly matched size wise, neither or them has a bad bone in their body, but my boy is sensitive and a bit emotional like me, and her boy is more "sort it out with fists". Again, I have no problem with either of them because they've grown up with each other and 5 mins after an incident/fall out they're best friends again. Bear in mind they are just 2 1/2.

Basically, if she's around, and her boy hits mine she jumps in before I have a chance to do or say anything and tells my DS her DS did NOT hit him, even though my DS will be saying "X hit me". I'm not saying she should discipline her DS but to tell my DS he wasn't hit has just really really got to me. My whole life I've had other people do this to me, telling me I'm wrong, this didn't happen, that didn't happen, I was bullied all through school, felt I had no rights and everyone else was more important than me. I will not let this happen again. But how to I sort this out?

We have just come back from another birthday party where she has spent the whole afternoon doing just exactly the same as always, and I've been completely stressed out feeling I have to hover over both boys so I can make sure I am there first when something happens. At one point we BOTH saw her DS hit mine - she said nothing! I was right there, and got down with them both and asked her DS if he was going to apologise - he said no. Pretty standard for that age, but its just really really annoyed me! If she thinks I didn't see it she will tell my boy her DS didn't hit him, if she can't get away from the fact he did she says nothing! We have another party to go to tomorrow and I've decided I just can't handle the stress so we're not going! Hope this doesnt sound too petty = maybe it will to an outside observer, but from where I'm standing I'm wound up like you wouldn't believe! I ended up picking my DS up and moving him to another part of the party to avoid more confrontation. I really don't have a problem with them having spats, as I said they're more like brothers than just friends. I just feel she's being passive aggressive and don't know how to deal with it.

I should say if my DS hits her's or anyone else he gets a good talking to and told to apologise. If he won't he goes in time out. I'm not PFB about him, and I know he's a bit sensitive, but I also have to protect him too. :(

2 1/2 - best buddies? sounds like they get on ok but it's due to your friendship with mother.
I can see how your friends behaviour is annoying but I think you are transferring your issues with being made to doubt your feelings into your son.
I would do what you did and remove ds or say something to her ds.

True.... to an extent... I'm just thinking ahead, and also of the fact that she's actually teaching her DS its ok to hit - he has her permission so to speak. They are best buddies - they play together virtually exclusively everyday. They are both blonde and same size and often get mixed up by people who know them because they're always together.

It sounds like a really intense relationship for both you and your ds. They weren't 'best buddies' from birth. They have just spent a lot of time in each others company. I don't like this sort of thing. I think it's healthier for children to have lots of friends.
Your friend sounds like a bit of a nightmare and there is no way I'd let her mess with my dc's head like that. Back away a bit but I'd avoid an out and out confrontation over this. She'll never admit to her behaviour.

Thanks Best - we haven't cultivated this friendship, they've just sort of done it themselves. When we're out in our car, my DS says "there's XX's car!!!" every time he sees the same make and model car that my friend has, and her DS does the same apparently. They talk about each other in bed at night, ask when they will see the other one again when they're not in nursery.... etc. So it wasn't our doing.

Personally, I think it is really really important that the bad behaviour of others gets recoignition. The other day at the play park, my ds was being chased and hit by this other boy. Now I did,kt know this boy from Adam and had no clue who the mother was. My ds is very sensible for coming up to three and went and played away from the other child. But as he was on his way to doing so, I stopped him and gave him a hug and told him it was not nice what the other boy had been doing and I was very pleased with the way he handled it.
As for your friend, her attitude has made me feel a bit growly!

Poke her in the eye and then tell her you did not do it

Best buddies since birth... at 2 1/2?

At age 2 1/2 I can tell you that your DS honestly won't care if he sees this other boy ever again as long as there are other children he can play with. He will have forgotten about him within a couple of days.

If I were you I'd start to distance myself from this particular person and widen mine and my DS's circle of friends.

lol RabidEchidna!

Cut down on their time together, I think. Introduce other children so your DS isn't so dependent on this one relationship and at the same time gain some distance yourself from the friendship. It all sounds quite claustrophobic, and I'd not appreciate somebody saying things like that to my child.

I agree with easily easily tempted and poster who pointed out this woman isn't going to change. Widen your circle of friends and do what you did this afternoon when you do see them.

I fell out with most of my antenatal group because they were wanky parents, if you like your friend see her without the DS's..

I think you need to broaden out your circle of friends OP, and let your DS choose his own friends and let him find his own feet and fight his own battles.

I know he's only 2.5, but you need to plan his social life for HIM, not for yourself.

The fact is he needs to mix a lot more with more children, and you could probably do with a break from this woman too.

Ask the nursery to separate them up a bit and see how that goes.

Organise swimming lessons for him, and bring him to the local playground to mix with other children without this other mum.

You sound like a lovely mum, but you need to remember that your issues are NOT your DS's and he has his own life, and will choose his own friends, regardless of your preferences. It might help to speak to someone as you seem to be very anxious and triggered by this woman's behaviour. It's not normal to be so would up you know, and I hope you get some relief from that anxiety soon.

This does sound like you're projecting your own childhood insecurities on to your DS, but I also wonder whether this is also a 'displacement fury' for something else that is happening in your life right now? This is fairly run-of-the-mill stuff with toddlers and their parents and it seems extreme that it has affected you so much that you're keeping your son away from a party that he would probably enjoy tomorrow.

Children of this age are healthily fickle and it's better that they mix with lots of children their own age.

Just to clarify - she is not my best friend, and we both work so don't really see a lot of each other in adult social situations, its just really when the kids are either at nursery or like today there is a party that they are both invited to. She's usually great, in terms of she's not bolshy, or overbearing or anything bad its just in this situation. Yes, there are lots of other things going on and I have a lot on my plate, I am a single mum and so I do feel extra protective of my boy because its just me. We're not claustrophobic in our adult relationship with each other, and he does mix lots with other kids - he's been in nursery 5 days a week since he was a year old and when I went back to work. As I said before, he and his friend have made each other their best buds, not me and my friend. It was not engineered, it just happened. I might think about doing as suggested up thread and asking the nursery to separate them a bit more though. One thing to add - one comment she made today when her DS walloped my DS and he started crying was "ooooooohhhhh super sensitive!!" in front of one of the other mums, so next time it happened and he cried the other mum made comments about him being an actor!!

Why on earth don't you just tell her you saw her ds hit yours? Tell her you don't appreciate her minimising it for your ds, it's not good for him to have his reality changed/denied.

Why do so many of us feel this insane fear of standing up to other women? Is motherhood so sacred no one should be called to account of something? Is it a fear of losing friendship? Dread that your ds (and you) don't deserve to be treated like intelligent beings? Because a mum denying my ds had been hit would feel my wrath the second she did it. It's not that kids hitting is a massive deal, but it does become one when they are not taught it's not the done thing. She could just as easily be saying her ds didn't take the toy and all the while he's wearing it on his head. It's a nonesense. Confront her.

Hi Silveryfox,

I've just read your last post, and think the comment your friend made today was way out of line

Maybe consider telling her that you were upset by her saying that in front of another parent, and politely asking her not to do that again/make judgements about your son's behaviour like that.

When my son was little my neighbour saw him being a bit boisterous and said "Easy tiger!" in a really nice way to him, with a smile on his face, and I think that's quite a good stock phrase to consider using going forward if you see things getting a bit out of hand with other children. It made my DS1 stop being a monkey on that occasion anyway!

You could also consider saying to the boy if you are right there, in a gentle way "Please don't hit xxxxx as it hurts him and he gets really upset. Thank you sweetie". That way you're not critising or judging you're just making a polite request on behalf of your son. If your friend takes offence, so be it. I used to say that to one of my DS1's friends who was a bit rough and tumble, but also made sure I said to his mum to please say the same or similar if she saw my DS being out of line.

How is your son's vocab? Could you teach him to say "Please don't hit me?" or "that really hurt" or something like that, or teach him to walk away, so he learns to manage these sorts of situations on his own as he gets older....this is unfortunately just the beginning of conflicts, isn't it. I do feel for you. I was a single parent with my DS1 and felt very protective towards him.

Sounds like you are doing a fab job as a mum anyway and it's only natural to feel upset when you see your little one get hurt. Some of us get more upset than others and I think that's ok too, as long a you can look calm and serene on the outside, even if you want to lose it on the inside!

Good luck whatever you choose to do. I can understand you not wanting to go to the party too, sometimes it just seems not worth the stress, especially when you are a single mum and maybe don't get much/any support

Here's a too as it's Saturday night!

yes perfumedlife I agree with saying something but I think it's hard to do if you aren't used to being confrontational and aren't perhaps very confident, and sometimes other people's behaviour is so gobsmackingly awful that you lose the power of speech with the shock of it! Also people rarely take kindly to having their little angels being critisized so I think there's often a case for treading carefully...I've seen full blown mafia styleee gangs appear in the playground over these things!! I only learned to stand up for myself when I had my DC1 because I was damned sure he wasn't going to be pushed around like I was as a child, and so standing up for him meant I learned to stand up for myself too. However, it was really hard and took lots of practice before it got easier! I'm an expert now after 11 years

Yes, you're quite right campariandlemonade. It is easy when you are in the groove and maybe op's childhood makes it difficult. However, some of the earlier advice on here reads to me like it's minimising this, as though the op should remove her ds and therefor avoid the chat. That does nothing for her self confidence atall. It shelves the problem until the next incident with a.n.other.

I'm of the belief the 'fight lions' instinct is best let out. If op holds her tongue and does the whole 'sweetie we don't hit, it upsets ds' then she is still angry at the mum for not addressing it. Anger held in is never good. Why deal in polite requests when she's watching her son being told he's in wrong and an actor?

I have PMT, can you tell

Argh - this post got me angry. Feel for you op...give her the cold shoulder and encourage your baby to make other friends. It will always be like this if you don't sort it out now.

Best of luck to you and no, you're not overreacting one bit.

Your friend doesn't sound like much of a friend really. You would do well to ease her out of your life and spend more time with normal nicer women.

You would also be doing your son a favour to reduce his time with the other child given that you are unhappy about how the other child is parented. Like the others said, ask the nursery teachers to separate them on occasion and offer your son opportunities to mix with other children (with nicer parents).

Children bring out very strong feelings in us and it is clear that you need to address your low self esteem and issues you have/had during childhood. This is probably the best gift you can give your ds. Because as you strengthen your own self esteem, annoying people will magically slip off your radar and you will be naturally drawn to healthier friendships.

Very true perfumedlife....this sort of thing happens time and time again doesn't it as children grow up, so avoidance isn't going to help in the long run, and isn't possible by the sounds of things in this situation anyway...how about polite requests to the child and a sterner word with mum about her obnoxious behaviour then?

Or with Silveryfox's permission, we could go undercover as newbies on Monday to the nursery and vent some PMT fury on this mum when her son starts being all Arnold Shwarzenneger with silveryfox's DS?

I like the way you're thinking campariandlemonade!

It is hard. No one likes confrontation. The problem is, I see this as nothing to do with the kids/parenting styles and everything to do with respect, or her lack of respect for you/your ds. It's her telling you that your ds got it wrong when she knows he didn't, she knows you know he didn't, and she knows you know she knows... if you're still following me

Demand respect and you will get it.And it feels good.

Thanks guys... I knew I'd get a balanced view on this here (and a little comedy!) I don't think I'm overreacting either - its not like I'm sitting here rocking and muttering to myself over it. And I personally don't think I'm transferring my issues onto him - I am just determined that he will not get treated the same way I did by my parents and just about everyone else my whole life until quite recently.

He is usually a very confident child - very sociable, affectionate, not usually clingy, etc. I feel I've painted him as a bit of an overwrought wallflower - he's not. He's very independent, but its weird in that its just his relationship with this one boy he can be very quick to tears/upset/anger himself. They really do act like bruvs. If one lashes out, the other will hit back, but for some reason sometimes my DS doesn't but instead starts crying. I guess he could come across as a bit of a drama queen to some people, but they have no idea what he's dealing with in his life, and the ones who do (my friend) should be able to work it out for themselves.

He's still coming to grips with living separately from his dad, he doesn't like going to nursery everyday and I know he finds the long days very tiring (He's in nursery from 8.15am to 6pm 5 days a week. I'm an adult and I find those days long and tiring, let alone a 2 year old! He doesnt have the security of having his mum and dad under the same roof either.

It has also really upset me about the other mum and my friend making those comments - yes I know he's too young to know what was said and meant really but he's not too young to pick up vibes around people's behaviour. I've spoken to a mutual friend tonight and she says I should speak to my friend or I'll just stew on it and it will become even more of a problem than it already is. I think I have to don't I. We'll see what comes of it - and if all else fails, then can I call you all up to vent for me??!

Gah, what I'm trying to say is that he is fine playing with other kids, its just this one very close mate he seems to be very sensitive about! Maybe because this boy isn't told not to do it?? Oh I'm so confused!!!!