LOVE - State of mind or emotion over which you have no control?

[bebopbadoo]

How much is falling in love circumstantial? How much can you decide whether or not to fall for someone?

I know I've fallen for people I knew I shouldn't have before, once with someone who wasn't mine to have (he cheated on his girlfriend with me ), other times with men I knew were using me or were no good for me.

At the time I got a lot of advice to 'forget about him' 'move on' but it felt as though I had no choice and fell in love with them despite my head telling me not to.

Conversely, a friend of mine had an arranged marriage, had met her groom only 3 times, physically not at all her usual type, yet a year later was head over heels in love with him. She said she had committed to spending her life with him so decided to love him and be happy rather than spending a lifetime in a empty marriage. I understand her logic, but I am not sure how making yourself love someone would work-how do you do it? It seems to have worked for her though, she's still happy nearly 10 years later.

I'm just interested in other peoples views on what love is really, I'm single but still in love with a total bastard. I'd love to know how to stop loving him, and if I could make it happen rather than just waiting it out. I know he used me, I know he doesn't care about me but something is stopping me from being able to stop caring in return.

I have namechanged as I am a bit embarrassed by this post!

I don't think you can make yourself love someone, it either happens or it doesn't its not something you actively choose to do.

I think it depends if you mean love or lust or infatuation and any combination of them. I do think you can "control" your reaction to strong feelings - you don't have to act on them. That doesn't mean you don't have the feelings though.

I don't believe you can truly love someone until you really know them - I think everything else is lust/chemical reactions/infatuation. It can lead to love but I don't believe it is love. As you can tell, I don't believe in love at first sight.

I think I agree Fabby, but yet so many people seem to expect you to be able to decide to stop loving someone just like that so why that way and not the other?

And thinking back to my younger days, there were plenty of times a boy wasn't even on my radar until I knew he liked me and then I started to fancy him back (although I suppose fancying is different to love).

Nor me Belle. I believe in instant attraction and instant chemistry but not love at first sight.

I don't think we have conscious control over who we fall in love with/are attracted to, no. We have a degree of control over whether we act upon the initial infatuation.

Bebop this is a really really interesting thread, well done for bringing it up.

Dave Carder, Rona Subotnik say: love is made of a triangle of 3 things: intimacy, passion and commitment.Without any of them there is no triangle and no true love. passion develops first, then intimacy, then commitment. At the beginning of affairs/the relationships you describe, only passion is present, but as you spend more time together and get to know eachother intimacy develops. If there is nothing between you, it fizzles out.

When passion first starts, it is intoxicating and exciting. 'Crazy in love'. The addiction of an affair. Passion rises quickly and is sustained for a while. However, it cannot last long at such heights and it cannot be sustained. (google 'limerance').

Intimacy is the glue in the relationship. This describes a feeling of safety and trust with each other, and people need time to develop that level of trust in another person. Intimacy can reach heights as high as passion, but takes a little longer to do so. This is when you can share your weaknesses with one another and can still be accepted, cared for, and loved. Men can have a problem with intimacy. In fact, he can be so threatened with 'her' demand for closeness that he can go on and have an affair (keeping TWO women at arms length).

The third stage is commitment. This is a sense of always being together no matter what the external stresses.

Another model of relationships is the IMAGO model (Harville Hendrixx). You meet someone who you just 'recognise' because they fit your image of love. They will always carry the components you lack, just as you carry the components they lack, so you marry the person who will most help you heal.

IMAGO works in arranged marriages too, because your parents carry your family IMAGO model.

Harville Hendrixx is regarded as groundbreaking, up there with Freud and Jung and Eriksson.

Bottom line? Work on yourself. Do the 'me' work first, before you look for a relationship. Its like the Buddhist 7 layers of enlightenment: The more healthy you become, the more repellent assholes will be, and the more attractive healthier people will become.
This is the mistake I made, which has caught up with me in my 40s. You can NEVER run away from the Karma bus.

That makes sense Samiantha, the one I'm still in love with was a good friend for years and years. I always fancied him (he is honestly the best looking man I have ever encountered) but was very careful not to let it show because we were friends first and foremost and he had a girlfriend. But if I'm honest I was a little bit in love with him even then.

Then he split up with his girlfriend, we spent a bit more time together and started dating. I tried not to fall too deep because I was worried I was his rebound thing but he reassured me I wasn't, he told me he'd always loved me, was so caring and loving towards me, would sleep holding me tight all night, basically his actions and his words made me believe this was the real thing.

But then we had "the talk" because his lease was up on his flat and he said he didn't want a serious relationship-told me he felt really strongly for me and loved me and that if he did want a relationship it would be with me, said he didn't want to lose me and wanted us to be friends...

After several months of him basically not bothering with me at all, sporadic texts every now and then but not seeing him, him showing little or no interest in me or my life I confronted him and asked did he still want to be friends because he wasn't acting like it, he said yes reiterated all the crap about caring about me, not wanting to lose me, promise to see me soon...and nothing, again a few texts but I haven't actually seen him since the beginning of december and that was a 5 minute visit. So I've now gone NC with him for my own sanity, I can't keep waiting and hoping to hear from him.

I think what hurts the most isn't that he didn't want a relationship with me, but that he has given up on our friendship so easily, it clearly wasn't important to him at all and it hurts that he doesn't even care about that. Makes me think our friendship wasn't real

oops massive digression there, sorry, feel free to ignore last post

Unwanted states of mind have less power when you a) acknowledge to yourself that you are having this feeling and b) remind yourself that it won't last for ever and then c) distract yourself rather than wallowing.

There's an unfortunate myth to the effect that if you love an individual, really really reeeeeaaaaaallllly love that person then s/he is under some kind of obligation or compulsion to feel the same level of love for you but to be denying it or unaware of it or something and if you just wait and wallow long enough, s/he will have to love you back. This is utter bullshit. 'True love' is more a matter of two people who are attractive to one another meeting one another at a point in their lives where both of them are consciously or unconsciously looking to pairbond and breed.

Makes sense SGB

Yep. You can't make someone love you/want you/desire you.

It's hard to move on (I'm struggling at the moment) and you have to want to. bebop it doesn't sound as if you do want to move, tbh. Why be friends with him? How is that going to help you get over this?

I've now gone no contact because I do want to move on. While he was being a good friend to me (immediately afterwards) it was easy, I was fine with it and was happy we hadn't lost our friendship. But his cold treatment of me recently and his blatant disregard for my feelings, yet his refusal to admit that actually the friendship is over for him, has nearly destroyed me and I can't keep on doing it so I have to accept it is all over and not speak to him again. Not understanding why is very hard, but I know I'm not going to get answers so I just have to somehow accept that I'll never know.

It's difficult to let go of a friendship that was once so good, and to reconcile his recent behaviour with the person he has always been before - he has always been such a caring person, loving, affectionate, generous and I keep getting a pang of that is what I am letting go of, but really I am letting go of someone who doesn't care about me or want to put any effort into our friendship. He isn't going to be loving or affectionate towards me again. I have to let those memories go.

My head knows all that. I can rationalise it all. But it still hurts, and I still keep feeling like I've been punched in the stomach with it all.

I know that feeling very well... I think you have to grieve for the person you thought you knew (like mine, he clearly isn't who you thought he was) and also grieve for the loss of the life/future you hoped for. It is hard.

Good luck Belle, I hope you get there soon. Has it been long?

i think you can talk yourself in our out of feelings for someone to a certain degree. YOu can convince yourself that someone might be worth a chance even if you know in your heart of hearts that you are wrong. I know I have

Good luck to you too, bebop.

We were together for eight years but on/off. We never lived together. We have DD(4) so he'll never be really gone. He's been the love of my life but he doesn't want me any more. It's a bit grim, to be honest. Not least because we are very honest with each other - there are times when a lie might be kinder.

I found out about his 'OW' in September. We faffed around and I let him try to choose. He hasn't chosen so I have. We have to be over now because I can't cope with how crap it makes me feel that he doesn't want me. I am jealous and insecure and angry. I also feel like I've wasted the past eight years. I haven't, of course, and I have my beautiful girl but I'm 46 now and he's only 38. He's got everything still and I haven't. I wonder who will want me now? Which, by the way, is self indulgent crap because I may be 46 but look like I'm still in my late 30s; I'm sexy as hell; have a good job and a great brain. I'm modest too.

Bet you're glad you asked! It feels very liberating to let all that out...

bebop.....it's all a mystery. I fell for a guy who was a known player, but of course charming. I knew from the start he was not a good person to be with, he wasn't even good looking, or rich, or all the classic things women like. I knew that I would be insane to imagine anything long-term.

I spent 4 years being crazy about him. Although I always knew he didn't feel the same way. Sure he liked hanging out with me, but he made the sun come out in my world. I just can't explain it, and can't understand it now. That was a while ago, but I can't imagine ever feeling that magic again.

So to answer you: I tried not to feel that way, gave myself good talkings to all the time, rationalised that he was not worth it, etc. But bottom line..a text from him made my day, I couldn't get enough of him. Just magical and I still don't know why.

Over now, and I have somehow mended my broken heart. but I still remember the thrill of it all. I will never know why he affected me so strongly. When it happens you can't help yourself. The only thing you can do is try not to wear your heart on your sleeve, open yourself to vulnerability.

Your friend's situation is different...you can make yourself love someone (if they are a good person of course) but it's a different kind of love. That out-of-control love is scary, frustrating, but I am so glad I had it.

It's also difficult to be the object of intense love from someone you were used to thinking of as a friend, or indeed someone you dated for a while but decided you didn't want to date any more. If you're a nice person, you don't want to be unkind and brutally honest, because you might well be quite fond of the person who is desperately in love with you. So you back off slowly, stop returning calls, avoid the other person as much as possible, though you may well say things like 'we'll always be friends' or 'I do care about you' because you don't want to hurt the other person's feelings.

I deeply love my XP; sadly, he found another woman and I was left abandoned by him!

Wish that my head could rule my heart but it ain't happening after more than two years after separation!

Best of luck OP!

He is actually not very nice at all by the sound it him. Better to learn this now than two children down the road.

Relationships often work well when others can see they would get on.

Arranged marriages can work really well when a couple are already well 'matched'. And if the matchmakers who arrange them have the couple's happiness ( & not money or status) as a main consideration.

Shared ideals/goals and behaving kindly to each other develop intimacy and passion often follows

I married too young to a guy who was kind to me, clearly in love with me and generally a better person than all the other a*holes i'd been out with up till then. I thought i was doing the right thing. My parents liked him! I was not in love with him - but i thought i could make it work ... make myself fall in love with him.

My grim determination to make it work lasted for nearly 15 years. Then i left him for another man. I still feel a massive sense of guilt over this, but not regret as such. I cant regret a relationship which produced three lovely children.

So ... what was the question? Oh yes ...

Love - no control i'd say. Not a state of mind you can talk yourself into or indeed be persueded into by someone else.

DH and I were online friends. Both of us were married. I fell for him big time, ended my marriage and the friendship. It was unspeakably awful because I knew we would be fantastic together and I was madly in love.

He ended his marriage and a mutual friend let me know. We got back in touch but I stayed away. After thirteen months he'd been living alone for three months and the time was right so I moved to his town.

My feelings didn't alter one bit and three years later still haven't but while I couldn't control them I could control my actions. I didn't want to be his mistress, his rebound or his midlife crisis. I held out to be special.

SGB I get that, totally. I've probably done that myself. But in this case, I completely followed his lead, made no declarations of love until he had done so, he was the intense one not me. Then when we had the talk and he said he didn't want a relationship, he looked at me, asked if I was ok. I said yes, that I was glad he had been honest and that was that. There were no recriminations, I didn't cling to his leg begging him to give me a chance, I didn't cry but I loooove you, or anything like that.

And when we saw each other afterwards it was as easy and light hearted as it had always been, I wasn't following him round with puppy dog eyes.... He told me one time he had had a couple of one night stands since we split, said it wasn't a conversation he wanted to have with me because of his strong feelings for me but that he didn't want me to hear it from anyone else and that one night stands were all he could cope with as far as relationships went right now. I said don't worry, you're single, you can do what you want. He asked if I was sure and said he didn't want to hurt me and I told him yes, I just don't want to hear the details. Also told him I was starting to date again.

I almost feel like he wants me to be pining for him, wants me to chase him, wants to be the object of intense love as you put it and has withdrawn since I haven't given him that.

Fizzfiend, thanks for sharing, it really resonates with me and I appreciate you reinforcing that it will end.

Misty that's kind of how I felt about an ex of mine, we could have been happy enough together for many more years, but I wasn't in love with him really.

Fullofnostalgia, good luck to you too.

And thanks to everyone else for your views

Bebopbadoo: Ah, right. He's a knob, then. And you are bang on, he actually wants you to clutch at his trouser legs, whining for his love.
So you can either go no contact with him in the knowledge that he's actually a tedious, self-obsessed drama llama, or you can see him from time to time as a friend if he's otherwise good fun and good company (but best to stay out of bed with him as that will restart the whole 'Don't love me, I'm Bad News (but do fall in love with me, because my bottomless ego needs buckets and buckets of love to stop my head disappearing up my ringpiece)' malarkey.)