How do you know when it's just another row, or when it's over?

[UhOhJo]

My DP works away a lot and we have a weird Jekyll and Hyde kind of relationship, we get on fine when he's home, we're a team, share chores, laugh a lot, and moan about our hard work kids together. Then when he's away we barely speak, and when we do we regularly row about little things. He often doesn't feel like ringing, we always interpret each others texts the wrong way and end up falling out about nothing much.

His job involves travel to lots of different countries, he starts at midday so gets precious lie-ins, he has meals out every night then drinks with friends. I try not to get resentful, it's not his fault he's got a great job and 5 star hotels all over the world! But when he's away my life is quick after-work fishfingers, endless nights alone in the living room, and getting up at 6.30am when the kids wake. He is a good man, a kind man, and in some ways this doesn't help, he feels massive guilt about leaving the kids, he has a huge chip on his shoulder that I'm blaming him for the inequality of it all - and to be honest I sometimes used to. Now I try to stay calm and even when we row I attempt to make it clear there's no blame in any of it.

He's a quiet private person at the best of times, but when he's away he feels like a stranger, he would never think to tell me what he does or feels, I feel cut off. I trust him, but it is a different world from family life, it's full of young single guys on holiday. I'm the opposite to a quiet stranger, I send him endless texts and emails, updates on the kids, just chat. He doesn't always appreciate it, especially when I tell him I've had a bad day or that I'm lonely.

Yesterday we had a usual row about not much, something about our DS's lost teddy, it was me who lost my rag first and I phrased something badly in a text. It was nothing, just a text-row misunderstanding, but he didn't see it that way. He sent an email that was full of how much he loathes me, how I'm mad, depressed and depressing, selfish, and that we have no relationship and he can't stand me.

I was upset of course, and did my usual firing off of too many emails back - up until 1am (I couldn't sleep!) but I was calm and trying hard to calm things down to make them better. I asked him to apologise and told him how hurtful it had been, and that it must have been heat of the moment stuff and not true.

This morning I expected things to be back to normal. Instead they were worse. He said he wouldn't apologise, more stuff about what a horrible person I was, and that he didn't want to talk to me 'I could stew.'

So I told him I was leaving him. I guess it was the nuclear option, but I really don't know what to do. If I believe that he hates me as much as he said then I can't be with him.

I can't go crawling back to him and tell him I love him and don't care that he thinks I'm a selfish loathsome bitch, can I? I think he meant those things. He said we have no relationship. In some ways he's right, we have no relationship when he's away, and he's away an awful lot. We've been together 5 years and we've talked endlessly about the 'him away' issues and got nowhere. Maybe I do just have to accept that it's too big a barrier to this working. He's home just one week this month, which adds extra complications as we have so little time to fix things and have a history of making things worse when we 'talk' by email or phone (he just cuts me off if things get difficult.)

In some ways I'd be relieved to end things to avoid the 'him away' rows and silences. But when we're together he's brilliant and we have a good life whenever he's home. I'm so confused and have no idea what to do for the best.

Bit of an essay. Oops. I just needed to talk to someone, as usual. At least I got that off my chest.

Maybe I should have made this shorter - bet no one gets through it! I suppose what I really want to know, is does this sound like a relationship worth saving?

We just have a huge problem communicating when he's away, I don't know if we'll ever get over that. I emailed today to suggest Relate, but haven't heard back from him. We have a 4yo DS and 11yo DD, I guess for them we have to try everything. I feel so low I've started to believe everything he said about being a selfish horrible person, the fact he said it twice and so forcefully makes me think he believes it. :(

You both sound as bad as one another. With the respect, you see yourself as the wife at home,the skivvy, whilst he is living it up. I get that.

He sees it as work, he has to do this, this is his job, you knew it before having him and having kids. He probably feels got at, especially if he hates being away from you all like he said.

You've had enough of being at home, so you've lashed out and said you are leaving. He's fed up of the toxic cycle of being got at every time he has to go away.

I see this frequently btw, in my friends marriages, so can probably speak from experience.

What he said was awful, but he's not the only bad guy here. Being constantly bitched at for years, when you have to work away, can really get you down and make you quite resentful and loathing. It gets too much.

It's only going to work if you get some really serious help, to talk it through. You both sound like you are at the end.

Is he willing to change his job to one more suited to family life?

It sounds like you won't really know if he meant those things or not until you see each other face to face. Seems like a very difficult situation for you. The words he emailed were hurtful and he must surely be aware of that.
Hope you manage to decide what you both want from your marriage.

If you need to ask the question, it sounds like you already know the answer. Both of you seem to be unhappy, it may be with your individual situations or it may be bigger than that and it is the relationship. I'm not sure I can offer advice but hope you make a quick decision so things can settle again. Good luck.

It sounds like things have reached a crisis point. Basically the way you're living your lives currently isn't working. It sounds like you love each other very much and do get on well together but your DH's job is destroying your relationship. It's a common problem. It sounds like your DH is fed up and lashing out. When you talk you need to challenge him on what he's said, but do it kindly, ask him what's really going on, does he really want to split or is he just sick of how life is going at the moment.

Thanks for the replies. No, he's not willing to change his job. I completely accept that I am hugely to blame in this, especially in the past when I had our son and PMT and lashed out regularly about being on my own. It's not at all his fault that he has this job but I don't know where we go from here. I see so many posts in this forum about DH's jobs and long work hours and lack of support, I guess everyone needs help when they're a parent, and I don't have friends and family able to offer much of that. Plus I work from home (whole new layer of complication!) so Monday-Thursday each week is like solitary confinement, it's just me and a computer, 2 mins chat at the childminder pick-up, then home with the kids, most weeks he's away there's no proper adult conversation until meet a mum friend on Friday.

He's told me bluntly that he's not willing to give me any more sympathy or support when he's away, which leaves the times he's home as our good times, and the rest as very bad.

If this ends I'll move back to London where I'll work in the office again, and have closer friends, and the city life I prefer. But the bottom line is that I don't want this to end. I want to make it work, it just seems this is the final straw and it's too late now. I messed it all up.

I don't think you should blame yourself. Your reaction to having little or no support is completely normal. In fact, your life sounds very very hard. TBH your DH sounds quite selfish - he has pretty much stated that he doesn't care how hard his working life is on you, he just wants to do as he pleases and for you to grin and bear it. it sounds like you've accommodated him quite a lot, despite not really liking it, whereas he isn't willing to do the same for you.

Can he change his job though? Can he actually, find a job, which pays enough to meet his commitments, keep you living as you are, right now? It's not as easy as not wanting to sometimes, it is a case of can you actually?

The way I've seen it happen, many, many times. The wife gets annoyed/jealous/angry/resentful. As she is home on her own, dealing with all the day to day, isolated, miserable, angry. Totally understandable.

The husband, for the most part really hates being away, unless a total arse. Gets really upset, etc. But he's then got his wife as described above, firing off abusive/argumentative/accusing emails, texts, calls. The job is the job as its always been. Leaving him to feel exhausted, resentful and guilty.

The wife feels like the domestic dogs body. The man a walking wallet who can't win.

But eventually, both parties snap. You've snapped saying you want to leave. He's snapped with having all this toxic behaviour put on him when he is trying to work.

He probably hasn't got anymore support to give you honey. I've seen it, so many times. He's probably all burnt out. As no matter what, it was never enought to stop you taking out the working away on him was it? Honestly? This has been an issue for you from the start, you both chose to have kids. You've been holding his job against him for years.

I'm not specifically getting at you here. He needs to understand how you feel. However I know many women and men like you. Who are so toxic to their relationships, with constant abuse and arguing all because their partners have to go away with work.

Unless he can change his job, or you can both get some decent counselling together. You'd be better off splitting amicably. As its all going to go tits up in a bad way here.

"But when we're together he's brilliant and we have a good life whenever he's home"

Remember that bit, you need to have a long talk about how to communicate better when he is away.

My dh also works away a lot, and I am at home alone, on computer. It is very tough sometimes, it's easy to let resentments build. It sounds like he lashed out out of guilt to me. You can make it work, you just have to both put in the effort.

UhOhJo- Feel for you on this one, I,m sorry to say but your Dh needs to grow up and stop being so selfish. You are stuck in a rut of the daily grind so bound to be feeling the way you are. He on the other hand cannot see further than his life and his work. He just does not want to know or care about your life at home when he,s away. that is not team work at all.he,s ok and you get on fine when he,s back you say. but as soon as he,s gone its your problem so get on with it. what an odd attitude.
The things he said to you on email are nasty and spitefull and shows his blatent disregard for your feelings and his lack of respect for you.He,s getting personal because he can,t find another grown up way to discuss things!
At the moment you don,t have a relationship so maybe tell him that you would like some time out from the situation to clear your head. give him the jolt that he needs so that he can think about re adjusting his behaviour in your relationship. if he has changed after that then try and give it a go. Don,t think that you have messed up at all as i,m sure that your last name is not DOORMAT!!!

Why do you text him at work about your childs lost teddy?

If my dh text me at work about mundane domestic minor mishaps, in my working hours, I would be furious, and see it as him not respecting me and my work.

Are you deliberately trying to put a damper on his life when he is not around to "punish" him?

I didn't text him at work about any old lost teddy. It's our boys bedtime toy he's slept with every night since he was a baby. He'd spent half an hour crying that he couldn't sleep without it. The row blew up because I asked DH if it had got left in the car on Monday, reminded him to check on Tuesday, and heard nothing. He'd finished work and was in a restaurant when I texted again to ask once more about it. I got upset because he just told me it wasn't in the car and to phone Eurostar lost property. I wanted him to understand that it wasn't about this practical obvious stuff (I'd rung Eurostar already) but about how to tell our boy that his teddy was gone for good, and about how I'd spent an hour trying to get the exact same replacement teddy but everywhere I found it it said 'discontinued.' I guess it sounds trivial, and I know he's not a mind reader, but this is the kind of row that happens when you don't talk, just text.

I suppose I also got upset because he'd just found out he had another week of working away, had told me by email, and not replied to my response. And I knew he wasn't going to phone that night.

I don't think DH is selfish TBH. I think Legobuildingpro said it right, it's just turned toxic because we want different things, and it's a situation that is just plain hard. He's not willing to support me emotionally when he's burnt out from doing that, he's not willing to change a job he loves (that's not easy to change anyway) I don't see how we recover from this.

Seems silly to split from someone you love, because you're on your own too much. I'll be on my own completely when it happens.

You need to stop texting.

You both need to consider that his working away so much is not working if you dont feel confident and capable to handle every day things without involving him on this level.

Can he change jobs?

He,s not willing to support me emotionally, He,s not willing to change his job!!!

What is it exactly he is willing to do?

What exactly are you willing to do to save this relationship. I know your answer is= everything and anything to save it. You have your two answers from him = 2 x not willing. Selfish and a non starter for ten from his part.
Yes you are as bad as each other at times. But the key here is that you are willing and can see that. He can,t and won,t that is why this will be a repeat cycle of behaviour from him. It wouldn,t be so bad if he could meet you halfway but he won,t and don,t want to.
He told you by email about being away for work for another week. no reply to your response because he no longer cares about your response, respect out of the window. Surely you deserve a slice of respect from him?

Bongo with all due respect, I don't think you know what you are talking about.

I have no doubt he has been supportive, no doubt. Im sure if op is honest herself she will admit this too. That's why she said what she did wrt to being unselfish.

But the tone of her posts the stuff she is saying. I could go into my street and pick up 4 or 5 women like her.

After 5 YEARS of constant shit about having to work away, constant emails, texts, phone calls. Blaming him, mentioning, of the lie ins, drinks, single lifestyle. I just KNOW the stuff she's been doing. I've seen it from people like her. The empathy well starts to run dry. That's what I think has happened here. In fact I'd bet money on it.

Some men are bad, I think this one has snapped, having five years of shit and never ending emails/grief/abuse because he has to work away. Op has snapped because she dosent like being left behind. Maybe thinking one day she could get used to it.

It's NOT that easy just to leave a job.

Just a thought, but why can't you move back to London anyway, with or without him, so you're not so isolated? Then him being away so much wouldn't be quite so lonely, and you'd feel you had more of a life to 'compare' to his.

I can relate to your situation as I am in a similar position. The arguing has turned toxic as you feel resentful and I guess have different communication styles which adds to the issue I'm like you - chatty but my DH is very quiet, if I ask him about his day he will tell me, but I have to ask. He isn't away as much as your dp but he works long days so it's from early morning to late evening.

I have lots of stress in the day to day homelife - similar aged ds who may have SN, major building project which makes living some days unbearable and I have had to give up my job to be around for ds. It feels as if it's one way and DH hasn't had to change his life. I want DH to be supportive and reassuring but he isn't able to be - I imagine it feels similar to you.

If you move to our old area, go back to an interactive office again - would that fix the issue? If that's the case can you move anyway and still be with your DP?
I don't think raising an issue about the teddy is too needy..I would be similar, it's just talking about what's happening in the home life.

I am at the stage of just recognising the compromises I have to make to be with DH..If I acknowledge the challenges then I have a choice to accept or move on. Knowing that you make the choice can help to let go of the resentment.

If you both can accept that your relationship has turned toxic it will help to let go of the hurt you have both caused each other.

Legobuildingpro, that is exactly it. We both know it's that, the problem is how do you recover from that? Is it even possible to recover? I was an utter needy berk, I regret my handling of this completely. I'm so much better than I used to be at not showing I need him, but life is hard right now, my job's a mess, I moved to a small town knowing no one and not even being able to drive, and it was a huge mistake. But he has no empathy left to give, so I get no support, and it turns into no relationship worth having.

I've argued for a move back to London but he refused it, he makes the fair point that we can't afford the same kind of lifestyle and home.

So much is about money with any work-life balance thing like this. He can't bring himself to turn down work, so we (lucky us) have loads of money. I hate it when he boasts about how much he earns because the cost of that is his trips away where we're half a family.

I probably will move back to London, pay a fortune for a rented flat and try to get my life back. But I'll stupidly be hoping he comes back to me. Is it ok to split up hoping to get back together, or is that just nuts? :)

Don't want to read and run on this one, as it feels very close to home - only I'm the one that has to work away, and I can definitely relate to the 'toxic' behaviour when we are apart - usually on a Monday night or Tuesday morning.

You say things are good when you are together - is this because you are doing other 'nice' things or is it because thats when you communicate on a better level?

If its the first one - then maybe you are avoiding dealing with issues and you are being clouded that things are 'good' when really they're not as good as you are thinking... and if you are going to fix and improve your relationship then it starts with that old basic chestnut of communication...

If its the second one then you can sort it by reestablishing the ground rules of what you do when you are apart (but obviously do this when you are actually together). Some good tips on this are to avoid text and maybe a regular time for conversations rather than ad hoc and disruptive conversations at busy times... Our way that works is I phone when I am driving into work for a quick nice chat and start to morning and then its a long one before bed time...

Stuckinthefens - that's a really good point, and so interesting to hear something from someone who works away. Absolutely reason it works when he's home is because we communicate just fine, really well about everything, he listens to me yabber on and I feel better for getting my dull work woes off my chest. When he's away I email when he has no time to reply, or sit by the phone with shit on TV feeling bored, lonely, hoping he'll ring.

He's the most private guy I know, he won't volunteer anything about himself easily, which frustratingly can make phone calls feel a bit like an interrogation even if I just ask where he went to dinner. But I'm sure it would help to have those ground rules. If it's not too late in the day to put them in place. :(

Well I do think you need some counselling together. See the thing is I know why he emailed you, 'cos after 5 years he knew the reaction.

So ATM, his job is what it is, it's what it's always been, not easy to change. So that's the way it is for now.

He needs to know how you are feeling, take more of an interest in your life. But you also need to really try hard, not to harass him at work, every time a light bulb blows. Sending him shit from afar over many, many emails, because you've had a bad day.

It needs both of you to talk and be open and get a hand to do so. If you want to move home, move home, so you'll have s a smaller house, less money. So what? If it makes you happy and keeps you sane so what? If it saves your marriage so what? Gets you support, so what?

See thing is, it's great having loads of money, but at what cost. Now if he can't easily find another job to meet your commitments, then something has to give.

You moving home, and having a life and support for yourself, rather than waiting at home for him is the logical answer.

If he can't see that, then your marriage is over really.

I may be off the mark but it sounds as though the real issue is with your life when he is away. Which of course would be much the same if you split up, unless you could make some major changes.

It's absolutely not surprising that you are depending on him too much when he's away, it sounds as though you have no company, no support and bluntly, no chance for a life of your own while he's away. So it's quite understandable that you have been needing more from him than he seems able to give when he's away.

You will have to decide together whether you both want to try to continue the relationship, but it sounds to me as though either way, the real area to work on is your own life.

Things like: can you change jobs to something you are happier with and where you would see more people? Can you find a place to work away from home where you can get more company or at least not just the same 4 walls (do some work from a cafe or library, or a shared office space, for example)? Can you move to somewhere where you have more friends and support? Can you use some of the money he's earning to get a regular babysitter one or two nights a week, so you can take up a new interest and hopefully make some new friends? Can you go away at weekends with the children (when he's away) to see family and friends, if you have none nearby?

If he is willing to help and support you in doing these things (including but not only financially), AND is sincerely apologetic for the horrible things he's said to you, then you may be able to go on from here (maybe with some counselling too).

But if he's not willing, then I would still advise you try some of those things for yourself when you split up, so you don't end up in as bad or worse situation as before.

BTW I know it's easy to talk about changing things, but much harder to do But your life at the moment does sound very cheerless (and friendless) so whatever happens with DP, I hope this would really help you.

reasonable what you have said lego.counselling is a good start together on both parts. All I was saying is that it needs to be a joint effort on both parts and not just one. seems like they love each other but are just bogged down with daily grind hence why they snap at each other, they probaly really miss each other when he,s not around. A small thing can escalate into a massive thing. need to take a step back and look at other ways to make it good when he comes home.Trip to Ann Summers maybe haha!!!

Thanks so much to everyone who's contributed to this post. Things seem much clearer now, there are so many good points and insights from everyone. It's so true that I've got myself in a rut with life, when DP's around it's just about bearable - we joke about how hard it is to get a regular babysitter, then stay in and have a bottle of fizzy wine and deal with it! But it's no joke when I'm on my own and trying the blummin teenager again and she can't make it.

I guess I do just have to be a big girl and deal with getting my life on track first - even if that means a move to London against DH's wishes. It wouldn't be easy, especially if I have to do it alone, but at least then I get to work in the office and have my old friends around.

I can't rely on DP to help me sort myself out (and quite frankly he's refused to take an interest) but if I was happy maybe things would get back in place, we'd stand more chance of being a good couple.

The sad thing is he proposed last July. While he was away of course! He said it was because he missed home so much, and I'd been such a support to him. He didn't know I'd cried nearly every day because it was a killer time difference, and I felt so lonely. I suppose sometimes keeping things like that to yourself can be a good thing. I would so like to do the wedding thing, but we're a long way from that right now!