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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

Struggling with my friends son

29 replies

lolaflores · 31/01/2012 16:01

I am less and less inclined to want to have my daughter around my friends son. Today he hit her because she got ahead of him on her scooter. In fairness I roared at him and his mum took it on the chin. He then hit his mum and I shouted at him again. When she gives out to him, he takes fuck all notice.
just want to let off steam on the subject. I am not given to checking other peoples kids but I couldn't help myself and then when he hit his mum....
I do get the feeling that he has a deeper problem, but right now I don't paticularly care that much. forgive me if i sound horrible.

OP posts:

knitpicker · 31/01/2012 16:36

It's a tough one but I'd say back off and don't correct him but try and teach your daughter appropriate responses to his behaviour - stop, don't hit etc etc.

Original poster

lolaflores · 31/01/2012 17:07

Yeah, she gave him a very old fashioned look, but he does not seem to respond to social cues about what is appropriate. Have some suspicions about his behaviour being part of a bigger picture, but obviously those are not my concern. Is it right to feel so hacked off with a kid? He is such hard work to be around

OP posts:

Happenstance · 31/01/2012 17:15

How old is he OP?

Original poster

lolaflores · 31/01/2012 17:35

He is five. And his behaviour has been a source of stress for his mum for a long time. His aggression has not improved. he tantrums like a 2 year old and is getting physically aggresive more frequently. He has delayed speech, poor sleep.....does anyone else see where I may be going with this.

OP posts:

balotelli · 31/01/2012 20:53

AS?

something2say · 31/01/2012 21:15

What I actually read was all the shouting. I'd wonder if the kid is learning it. I fully appreciate you say you aren't given to this as a rule, but that is what struck me.... I know AS exists but I don;t like thinking people are boxed in with a named condition when they could learn and be taught much more comfortable ways of relating....

Original poster

lolaflores · 01/02/2012 07:48

Do tell me what else you would do if a child was bashing yours, not listening to his own mum and not able to get to your child? Comfortable ways of relating? Kids all have run ins, accepted, and in the main children sort their own stuff out. But, I do not see any other kids around my daughter being so physically aggressive and unresponsive to his own mothers input.
How do you teach a child this, is it not a process of life that they acquire from society around them? At school, at home...not in a comfy room somewhere. I am not naming a condition, but his behaviour is startling in its difference to other kids his own age i.e. he should at this stage have acquired the social skills and self control to deal with minor frustrations. And the upshot of this is that he will find it more and more difficult to create and sustain appropriate relationships in his peer group.
According to you he has "learned" this behaviour, and then he should "learn" differnet behaviour...he is not a lab rat. You need to find out why one type of behaviour is there first before "teaching" him something else.
He is still a human you know, labelled or not, not a receptacle that you fill with required behaviour.

OP posts:

cestlavielife · 01/02/2012 10:12

you roared and shouted?

a calm firm "no" might be more effective long term

maybe stop having play dates/get togethers.
hope that school pick uip on the issues and refer on for support and help and input for the child.

LadyMedea · 01/02/2012 10:47

Talk to his Mum, tell her you love her and her son but you are worried for him due to the behaviour and developmental issues. It could be a whole range of things including AS.... approach it with love and understanding... she may react badly at first but I'm sure she'll appreciate the support in the long run.

Original poster

lolaflores · 01/02/2012 10:48

Yes I roared and shouted out of frustration at his behaviour which has been ongoing. He regularly pulls her to the ground, shoves and pushes. There has been input but doesn't seem to be making any obvious difference. I had hoped his mum would have stepped in a bit sooner.

OP posts:

cestlavielife · 01/02/2012 11:10

try and look at it as "all behaviour is communication"

he cant communicate properly (eg say "let me go first!") so he uses physical methods. try and see what his beahviour was trying to say - eg let me go first ! my turn! etc

showing him that roaring and shouting works really isnt the best way forward.

try and arrange some turn taking games with him and your dd at home. teach him (show his mum how to teach him) turn taking etc.

behavioural input can help espec if maybe ASD.

call NAS helpline see what local services there might be that mum could access. even if not diagnosed there may be support/local groups.

ask her what SENCO at school is saying. find out info on local educational psychology services encourage her to self refer if school isnt acting.

you asked earlier:

"How do you teach a child this?"

well with specialist behavioural support and intervention. but tehre are some ways you/his parents can do this - by teaching him appropriate behviour in games and play - an example being turn taking.

by analysing the behaviours when they do happen and trying to s ee what he was really trying to communicate then thinking ways to teach him appropriate behaviour in such situations a non-shouty non confrontational way. role playing out the scenario with toys but showing the right way to ask or show the consequences - eg teddy pushes barbie over barbie cries sad barbie.

oh dear. now lets do it again. teddy doesnt push barbie is happy teddy is happy...mummy is happy all are happy etc

recognising he may need extra help and his parents may need extra support and helping them to access that

Original poster

lolaflores · 01/02/2012 11:51

Thank you for the above *cestlavie" your advice is very thorough. But, is all of that my place to do? She has withdrawn him from SENCO, and as to a self refer, I have suggested such moves but she is reluctant.
He is fully aware that hitting is wrong, he refused to apologise to me or my daughter although he wouldn't look at her after the event. This is not the first event of his physical acting out and I lost my temper. A display on my part that I am thorougly ashamed of. My patience has reached its limit and with his mum too in some respects. I know how hard it is for her, she is exhausted by him but does not seem to welcome any input from any quarter. Usually I leave them to it, and if it is getting very fraught take myself and DD off to allow him time to calm down.
This may sound judgemental, but his communication issues are theirs to deal with. My daughter is not his punchbag while they sort out his issues or not sort them out. He is losing out on friendships and that gets to me too. He is unpredictable and I don't trust him round her anymore.

OP posts:

BettyBedlam · 01/02/2012 12:16

Then remove your daughter from the situation if you don't like it. If you suspect he has Aspergers, what good is shouting at the poor little boy going to make? If you can't support the mum, try staying away.

BettyBedlam · 01/02/2012 12:17

Sorry, that didn't make sense. I meant to say 'what difference is shouting at the poor little boy going to make?'.

saintlyjimjams · 01/02/2012 12:23

If you don't like him and you're irritated with her and you haven't got the time to take on board strategies for ASD (which even if he's NT are likely to work pretty positively) then don't bother seeing them. You don't have to as you say.

Diggs · 01/02/2012 12:29

If his mum isnt saying much about this behaviour then theres nothing you can do but remove your daughter from these situations . She really shouldnt be expected to put up with it .

Original poster

lolaflores · 01/02/2012 12:46

Perhaps I am not one of life's natural child specialists. I do not mean that sarcastically, but to be irritated and upset with another child's behaviour in relation to one's own child is a long way from working with kids in a professional framework. My response, as I have stated was perhaps not the best, but I have tried to support and help, but have reached my tipping point. I feel a bit shit about myself and these two have been friends for a long time, but I simply cannot allow it to go on. I don't want any confrontation with my friend but it would seem that that is that. However, I cannot make her get help.

OP posts:

OrmIrian · 01/02/2012 12:53

No you can't make her get help. But by saying 'enough is enough and if you won't do something about your child's behaviour, I don't want my DD to spend time with him'. might make her rethink.

Original poster

lolaflores · 01/02/2012 12:56

Yep OrmIrian, that sounds like the way to go. Sounds about the way to go with things. it is firm and clear. thank you

OP posts:

saintlyjimjams · 01/02/2012 12:56

She may be seeking help and just not telling you about it.

When I had concerns about ds1 I told one friend.

Original poster

lolaflores · 01/02/2012 13:05

Perhaps Jimjams perhaps. But, would it not be a heads up for folk as to why he behaves this way? It would be fairer to us to try and understand, but just right now, I see an aggresive child I don't want to be around. I have tried to discuss it with her, but get a blank. which is frustrating if you are trying to support someone. You can't do it with no background

OP posts:

saintlyjimjams · 01/02/2012 13:06

Ds1 isn't remotely aggressive to anyone else. He sometimes hits himself when angry, but has never threatened anyone else. Where have you got that idea from?

saintlyjimjams · 01/02/2012 13:07

Oh whoops sorry wrong thread! Got my threads mixed up. Hang on.

saintlyjimjams · 01/02/2012 13:11

It depends what you mean by 'fairer'. If she is seeking help she doesn't have to share that with anyone else. My son wasn't aggressive but I didn't discuss his odd behaviours with many people because it was too difficult and I was too fragile. I spoke about it to the one friend I could talk to about it (who incidentally adored ds1 which helped).

All I'm saying is don't assume she is just being passive and not doing anything, or that she is not prepared to discuss things because she isn't interested. She may emotionally feel you are not someone who she can share that sort of stuff with. Of course that may not be the case.

If you cannot cope with her son's behaviour you don't have to see her. I certainly lost a lot of friends when ds1 was diagnosed, it happens.

Original poster

lolaflores · 01/02/2012 13:42

sorry to hear that happened to you jimjams and i don't want to be one of those people who vanish, but it looks like that is how it is going. I can understand how fragile she must be and to try and hold it all in place but it seems a heavy load on your own
get yer threads sorted woman,

OP posts:

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