Keeping ds safe from ex

[seaofyou]

Ds has seen ex a handful of times...ds now 7 yrs old, last visit 2 yrs ago.
Due to ds autism was nonverbal for most of these visits and would return with rather disturbed aggressive behaviour and stomach issues that had not seen since stopping gluten and dairy.

I spoke to ds Consultant Peadiatrician about ds headbutting on return from visits with ex and told 'ds can't cope with change'...I accepted this as had no choice after all the Consultant is the expert.

As ds started to become verbal (by this I mean 1-3 words max) on last visit, ds disclosed to his 1:1 after returning from night away with ex, ds saying 'computer off' and cried his eyes out for 2 hours....we tried to work out what it was but due to lack of language could only comfort ds. At this time contact was being arranged via solicitors (I pushed for contact as ex turning up at xmas and birthdays only was not fair and ds now 4 yrs old needed regular contact). So I was not in position to just phone ex and say 'What does ds mean?'

ds disclosed to second 1:1 'computer off' 'drink milk' 'burger' 'chips'. Ds is on an allergy prescriped diet by Dr.

Ex stopped seeing ds in 2009 and thankfully I have a letter from ex's solicitor confirming ex and family does not want contact with ds (after my solicitor meantioned this concern in letter to ex the 'giving foods to ds he should not have for medical reasons'.

Ds disclosed this year about the 'computer off' and ex slapping ds repeatidly in face. Ds disclosed being strangled, thrown accross room. The 1:1's ds disclosed this too wrote it down and signed and dated it. I informed ds social worker (who never asked to see these statements).

It was when ds disclosed sexual abuse ( disclosed to 1:1 and recored on my mobile as I told 1:1 to turn on my record on mobile if ds ever starts to talk about ex). I then decided to go to Police and DI came out and spoke to ds. He asked for ds to come to station where they would film ds next day.

However next day DI totally different saying 'spoke to SW and you have grievence with ex over maintenance etc' I could not believe what was said to me!

The courts have just caught up with ex and I guess ex will have to pay (although ex disputing it with lies saying that I did XYZ).

Anyway solicitor who has guided me through this said 'most men who have to start paying for a dc will often start to see dc as they see 'paying= seeing dc'.
Ex I know would do this to get revenge on having to pay maintenance. I know he would hurt ds again and even worse. Ex has done many physically aggressive things to my property over 3 years, which is now resolved thanks to CCTV and ex I guess not wanting to be caught/go to prision.

So I have meeting with Social Services manager in few days to discuss it all. I will bring 1:1 statements and voice recording of other disclosure.

I want to make sure ds doesn't come to any harm and never see ex again if ex does push for contact as ds is terrified of ex and had flash backs at one stage.

I am terrified of ex having contact with ex...any help/advice I welcome in how to deal with this meeting and to ensure my ds is safe in the future.

cest thank you so much for this advice! I will not mention maintenance then and say "it's not relevent". Thank you x 100!

Funny enough it was SS manager that asked me on phone about maintenance when I phoned up to ask for meeting...which I said judge still haven't decided/looked at case (ex disputing back pay).

One problem I aint got anyone to be a legal gardian...my mum is mid 70's to ill...my sister went with ex aginst me (long story and ahve not spoken to her in 4 yrs over it), my other brother doesn't help no one...and my other brother who would have died:( People don't want to take on disabled children...you realise how 'isolated' your world becomes when you have a disabled child.
So I am praying I last until ds can look after self if at all.

Ok I will set out for 'supervised contact'...trouble is Cest I don't want him having contact at all. Ex stopped contact because I wanted contact centre as ex feeding ds foods ds is on medical px diet by GP. So I know ex wont want to be supervised because he wont be able to abuse ds then!

I never mentioned maintenance to police as it had nothing to do with ds being abused...it was judgemental SW who 'discussed it'!

I know it's got nought to do with this but the Social Worker never even came to house to see damage when ex attacking my house...guess she concluded I made that up too...God it's getting more and more clearer!

I know your Dh is abroad and you worry cause he passes by to go & visit his parents, sea, but that's why you are moving isn't it?

I know you have the door to deal with but that shouldn't stop you getting sold up. If you can't afford to fix it, just be honest with the buyers and say so and a bit can come off the price. I would get the estate agent to handle it ALL for you less hassle.

If you are not going for maintenance (which doesn't sound worth it BTW!) the dis-engage, forget him. You only make yourself ill when you get worried and stressed, look how he got you wound up over the devil-worshipping thing? You realised after talking it over with MN-ers that it was better for you to ignore all that and try and move on.

Could you tryr and push your GP to make thath counselling appt an urgent referral? I think it would really help your anxieties over it all, you are BOUND to have them after all you've been through but really you need to look forward and concentrate on making a new life for you and your DS.

How long is it since DS had contact with your ex? I really don't think he will be back from what you've said before, if I remember rightly don't you have a court order forbidding him to come near you?

Obviously no-one knows and I can see you need to be sure but I don't think any SW will be able to answer that one, although they can reiterate your options.

Bossy [thankyou]
I have made a great start I don't look at ex's website ...ok it's only been 2-3 weeks I know I know...but I won't. I spent 3 years frozen with fear and thanks to all Mn's here who has helped me I am now slowly defrosting if that's what you call it??? and I have ordered my front door this week:) It's coming in 4 weeks...that NEW FRONT DOOR is very symbolic to me and the start of the door opening to a new life :)
Plus the frame is falling out of gap in wall would never have sold house...so will put it up for sale after next month then.

The courts have served ex for maintenance it is just taking about 7 yrs to decide, if ex does runner now warrent for arrest is next step for the courts.

It will be 3 yrs ds hasn't seen his df but ex never bothered with ds for 2 yrs in past and showed up like a bad penny again:(

It's usually when ex settles down...I'm sure the new OW persuades him to see his ds? NO DON'T DO THIS!!!!! It was the Ex OW who persuaded ex to see ds in past...exOW did ds and me no favours their!

I would love a court order to prevent ex from coming near or seeing ds but no sadly:(

I am going to ask SS manager for copy of meeting in writing of my concerns over ex and future contact and them to record their views/input on this too for future incase I do have a massive fight on my hands.
Sady my gut feelings are usually correct and I think ex will demand contact esp if made to cough up. Trying to cover every base....streesed to the hills and back!

you ahve enough docuemtnaiton police involvement etc over agrssion/violence etc right?

so let's say eh applies to se DS.
you say no no contact is too distressing given the past , and DS SN.
you provide documentaiton of all allegations etc.

he persisits thru court, presents good image says he has changed.

you STILL have good case for supervised only contact for some many months as

1. DS has SN
2. all the past allegations and all the evidence

34. he hasnt seen him for so long needs long slow gradual build up

if ex refuses contact centre well tough. his problem.

your start position if it goes to court is zero contact - but you need to be preapred that judge may side with him for contact itn which case you make sure it is only strictly supervised for many months.

(and he either wont take ti up or will but give up after a while)

practice phrases out loud to mirror to say to SW if needed - sounds silly but it does help - so if s/he says keyword "maintenance" you trot out your lines
ie "maintenance is not relevant. i just want to be sure DS is safe. that is why if there is any contact at any time in future it has to be strictly supervised" .
"my concern is Ds' safety that is all"
etc

my exP curently in kinda up phase and DS (15, SN, ASD) seeing him only with adult supervision eg carer. while DS would be happy to go off with exP alone, i am not and will keep to letter of court order which is supervised "unless otherwise agreed" ie i dont agree.

on some level exP currently looks ok MH wise (up phase) but i have seen on couple of in-public meetseg school xmas show he is not on the ball at all with DS with regard to supervision etc . until and unless someone else orders unsupervised i am not allowing it...

cest this is excellent advice and will practice saying this:)

However the damage to property I have no proof i.e no witnesses to actual ex doing the attacks...only ex waiting car round the corner/driving past several times on day house was attacked etc...and I saw him run past house (ex saw me in window? didn't approach house). So unless these are actual 'proven crimes' the courts I know cannot take all these attacks over 3 years on board!

I know though ex will see ds 1-3 times then stop again that is the pattern...but it only takes one time to abuse. I think you are right and have soothed my fears that the no contact and ds SNs alone will ensure supervised contact? and if so ex will hate it as a paranoid man and will refuse/give up...this is the best I can hope for if it happens!

"if I die the Police go to ex to ask him to look after ds "

Make a Will and appoint a Guardian. Simples. That should do the trick. If X wants to object to that he will have to fork out for Court proceedings, which would be unlikely to succeed if he has not seen DS for years and these abuse allegations are on record, on DS's file with SS.

D

sea I'm glad to hear you are "defrosting" from that crippling fear.

Don't let it dominate your life, look forward, the new symbol of the front door etc great stuff!

Sorry I misunderstood re the court order, I was sure you said before you had after all the door business.

Hope you get the answers you want from the SS.

I would seriously think about dropping claims for money from him if it has taken 7 years to get through foreign courts. You obviously have been resourceful and managed (albeit with a struggle) up until now, your mental health & well being are fare more important.I know it's unfair but is it worth the hassle and upset, really?

RockieD thank you I don't have anyone I can appoint. I will discuss this with SS don't think I will do it in meeting but will do it at some point as can't face this on top, not now. It's not so easy when the child/adult is disabled people don't want to know:(

Bossy when your dc has treatment that helps them improve you don't want to give that treatment up. However I imagine ex will give his job up to not pay and do cash in hand as most of these deadbeats do.

I will find a way to carry on getting ds better and better ....my main aim in life is to get ds living independantly on his own.....not a degree or top career....just so ds can cross a road safely/shop/budget/brush teeth/bath/run a bath/cook/clean/care...it's coming slowly took 12 months to teach ds to put his socks on and ds can do that now:) working on ds tie for last 6 months and started buttons to dress....ds about 3 yrs behind peers so working hard to ensure gap doesnt get bigger. If ds was NT I woundn't have this finincal stress and need maintenance as I would not have had to give up my job and paid out over 20K in treatment so far.

I am puzzled why the 1:1 did not report to their line manager within the school when ds disclosed abuse? why did it have to go through you?

What a nightmare. I am so sorry.

Hi Pink...my ds was still home educated at the time...I was the 'line manager', but also mum and at time ex had just stopped attacking my home so too frightened to report it as the 'consequences' would have been ??? Ds only started school 2 weeks after he disclosed I was terrified ds would fail being asd and super anxious...so swept it under carpet as opening can of worms at that time could have resulted in a 3rd school failure!

It took a lot of courage to report it 2 months later! Took police nearly 3 months to contact me , interview ds then bang ....stopped after 2 minute telephone call with SW whom hadn't offered any support via any DV or ds reporting abuse! That is the meeting tomorrow to have a moan/complain...I will take it further this time as already seen as 'trouble' for asking for change of SW when 1st SW told ex I had heart problems and broke confidentiality...funny enoiugh that is when the petrol bombs/kicking my door in started...maybe ex hoping I would drop dead of heart attack

Sorry if that sounds aggressive! But another point to raise of last SW issue! So thank you for making it all come to surface as really important to mention! My condition SADS which sudden noises can kill..ie phone ringing/kicking door etc etc see my point!!!

Sorry SADS = Sudden Adult Death Syndrome, where a sudden shock can send heart into fast beat that will kill the person, the only treatment is at that time a defib to shock heart back to normal...so ex would have known this with googling as told by SW!

What a evil twunt!

Thankfully Heart consultant redid the test and it worked out GP ECG was recording wrongly but ex never got told this as I already pulled them on breaking confidentialy!

Still seems wrong to me, sea suppose it was the home educator who had been the alleged perpetrator, who would 1:1 report disclosure to? And where there are difficulties between separated/divorced parents, I would have thought it even more important to have a separate line of reporting - as you have found to your cost.

Pink why is it wrong? I reported it to Social Services straight away and solicitor. Social Services did nothing...because ds had no contact with df so no risk anymore. This is what a school would do also!
Are you saying I was the abuser? WTF?

I am Not, Repeat Not, saying you were the abuser. I was trying to phrase it hypothetically and generally. I am saying that there should have been a separate reporting line for the 1:1 that does not involve the parent/home educator. I am saying that suppose the situation came up where a 1:1 did have abuse from the home educator reported by the child they were supporting, the 1:1 would have to report it somewhere, surely.

I am saying that if a different reporting line, not through you, had been in place, in your situation, when DC disclosed about ex, then you may not have had all the crap about it being something to do with you not getting on with ex.

In a school they would report direct to SS, wouldn't they? BTW I have worked with vulnerable adults (not children though), and had PovA training.

I am sorry, I did not mean to cause distress

oh fuckedyFUCK SORRY Pink so FuCKING STRESSED ABOUT TOMORROW....about to tell SS to stick their UFCKING DP's up their arse and disengage from a system that is truely FUCKED!!!! Ds disclosed it to 3 1:1's in total...just language was that much better on the 3rd 1:1 to say df had strangled ds etc:(

Good for you sea, but do it nicely eh

Was tomorrow's meeting instigated by SS or did you institigate as part of a complaint against SS?

Regardless, I do not consider that it will be in your best interests to attend because, even if you were to be given the assurances that you are seeking with regard to ds and possible future contact with his father, any such assurances won't necessarily hold in a Court of Law.

izzyizin I instigated it as I asked SS manager to find out why police just dropped the investigation. She will update me tomorrow.

I am not going to complain. I will disengage from services as vol for DP's only and then get full copy of notes and then depending on what evidence I will go to the professional body and complain.

SW stopped police investigation that would have been held in a court of law justuce for ds. FR's said SS report on my concerns tomorrow would count as evidence for courts!

It's highly unlikely that a SW has 'stopped' a police investigation and given ds's autism and the historic nature of the allegations, it would seem probable that the CPS advised that a prosecution would be unlikely to succeed.

It also seems that the police told you why they were not proceeding any further with their investigation and if you are dissatisfied with the explanation they have given, you are at liberty to invoke your Regional Police Authority's complaints procedure.

I may be wrong, but I think the point that TPPcat was trying to make was that if ds had disclosed to a 1:1 who was attached to an educational establishment or other LG/health agency, they would have been obliged to refer the disclosures to their line manager who would then have notified social services.

Was/were the home ed worker(s) that ds disclosed to in your employ, o9r did you pay for their services via an invoice from an agency, or were they appointed by your LEA?

From what you've said here, you intend to spend time tomorrow endeavouring to persuade SS to 'protect' ds should his father express any desire for contact and my concern is that you will be disappointed.

Partly that, Izzy, but it seemed to me that there could be a problem with proper safeguarding if a 1:1 for home education could only report disclosure to the home educator who employed them. I guess that's one reason why you are asking for the specifics about the home ed workers.

As you've said, there would be a safeguarding issue Pink Pussy, which didn't occur to me until you mentioned it as I''ve been preoccupied with pondering the question of credibility of witnesses were were in sea's direct employ from the point of view of the police and CPS.

As the witness(es) line manager, sea, you chose not to make contact with SS or the police at the time the disclosure(s) were made and it would seem that at least 5 months (you made contact with police after 2 months and police took 3 months to respond?) has elapsed since your ds's last disclosure.

You said that 2 weeks after what I assume to be his last disclosure, your ds started school. Has he disclosed to any staff/workers since he began attending his current school?

From what you've said, I've formed the impression that the police have spoken to your ds and, presumably, this was in your presence. Did he repeat his disclosure(s) on that occasion?

If you intend to go to the meeting this morning I would advise you to regard it purely and solely as an occasion for SS to report back to you - i.e. you are not there to provide them with information.

Take a notebook with you and, as far as possible, write down what SS managers/workers say word for word - don't be afraid to say 'can you repeat that please' if you can't write as fast as they are speaking.

Do not volunteer any information with regard to how you feel about anything that is said to you and to not be tempted to enter into any converation which may be intended to elicit information from you.

Do not go over old history or give them any reason to suppose that you are, or will be, adding any new complaint to what is on the table.

Do not initiate any conversation about ds's father or any possible action he may take in relation to re-establishing contact, or raise any of the concerns you have expressed here with regard a suitable guardian for ds in the event of your highly unlikely demise before he reaches 18.

If you are asked any questions, keep your answers brief and non-commital - yes, no, 'I hear what you're saying and I'll get back to you on that', 'Thank you for sharing that with me; I'll have to think about that' etc.

With reference to your intention to 'disengage from services', I would suggest this is best done in writing after today's meeting.

Remember the maxim 'least said, soonest mended' and let SS do the talking while you scribble in your notebook.

Good luck!

izzyizin that has been extremely helpful as anger over it can over take and I need to deal with fact not emotion which is hard being mum to vuln child in all this.

I will take a notebook and I will remeber the phases to use. I see your point re no resolve or help in future for contact problem.

The 1:1's were classed as 'self empolyed' so don't have a line manager. The main 1:1 is now employed by school so if ie ds gets flashbacks next father's day and discloses again 1:1 will have a manager to report it too...this was an issue 1:1 had and I informed her I told SW straight away...so 'reporting it' was done.

I only went to police 2 months later as the disclosure got worse (I mean the type of abuse) and after discussion with Family Rights...they said even to just have it 'logged' with police. It was summer holidays when police were informed and CPU detective should have come the first week of school hols but court over ran so could not get here. Then I was away for 3 weeks so in end they never got round to interviewing ds until September...and actually as ds first ever time in 'new' school year ds missed his first day in school:(
to attend police family unit to be video the next day after DI came to house.
DI said it was because of 'my grievences towards ex and history here...what DI was told by SW 5 mins earlier) he decided to cancel the interview. He actually accused me as having persecutory delusions about ex at that point I just walked out with ds and 1:1.

So back to today I was going to give the SS manager the copies of the statements that 1:1's wrote what ds said and play the mobile recording of ds disclosing abuse that SW wasn't bothered with!

Izzy do you think I should not offer these statements to SS again? I want to know why SW never wanted them, never spoke to ds, never came to see me or 1:1 over it all? So not right...I assume they think I had delusions and it was all in my head?

Do you think I should withdraw from Social Services completely? I only was with them to get Direct Payments so ds could have help with treatments as most treatments etc require 2 of us and being a single mum with no family help it was impossible to do lots on own:(

Pink I do see your point and there was a lot of pressure on me as manager back then but never no help/safe guard etc was ever given to me...I guess that is why I was so stressed and still stressed by it....SS didn't care! I had one legal situation with 1:1 I had to sack due to safety/couldn't do work and I was being taken to court and solicitor said I could have to pay 1:1 wages for 5 years that was 9 months of hell...that stress nearly killed me and that is not an exhag! The stress was well lets say I am suprised I am still here and I know it has shortened my life dramatically!

Meeting is this avo (thought it was 9.30 so lucky I phoned yesterday!) Any other great advice appreciated:)

This may be too late but, frankly, I would cancel the meeting with SS and ask the Manager to send you a written account of what they intended to tell you today vis a vis the sw who was allegedly able to halt a police investigation with one 5 minute phone call.

It seems to me that you have 'logged' your ds's disclosure(s) with the police who, for whatever reasons, have decided to take the matter no further, and your dissatisfaction with this decision will be more properly reflected by invoking your regional police authority's complaints procedure.

With regard to giving SS copies of the 'evidence'; as you have offered to provide it before, I see no point in you doing so again and this is a matter that is best dealt with in writing.

Without seeing the contract of employment relating to the difficulties you had with the 1:1, I suggest you consider a change of solicitor as being required to pay the salary of a part-time employee for 5 years after you terminated their employment would seem to be unreasonable.

I hope that if you decided to go ahead with today's meeting, it went well for you.

Were you able to obtain an explanation as to what communication took place between the police and SS in respect of ds's disclosure?