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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Need strength to talk about divorce finances, but I can't...

67 replies

LadyEatsCrispsALot · 27/01/2012 19:40

You may remember previous threads about my separation from DH. He offered a lump sum so I can buy house with kids. I calculated he would be left with family home and a flat he rents out, I would essentially be given a deposit and still have a mortgage.
I have seen a solicitor today who states what H is offering is only 33% of assets and I should be entitled to at least 50%.
I tried to talk to him before about having more equity out of the rental flat, but he got really angry. Stated he wasn't going to give me anymore. I was a gold digger and had no morals or pride.
Now I definitely know I am entitled to more but I really can't face having that discussion with him. It just would be easier to take what he offers. But I also know this is my only shot to get what is 'fair'.
I just feel miserable about it.

OP posts:
LadyEatsCrispsALot · 27/01/2012 23:57

Noooo! Not the pension!!!! I did mention it to her. :)

OP posts:
izzyisin · 28/01/2012 01:06

Oh good for you! Sic her on him Wink

LydiaWickham · 28/01/2012 18:27

So what if he thinks your a gold digger, you're divorcing him for a reason, I take it? You don't need to care what he thinks anymore, he's not going to be your husband any longer. Stop screwing yourself over so someone you don't like thinks you are nice. You will stop being the gold digging ex-wife, but you'll still be his ex-wife, he's not going to go round telling everyone you're perfect and the best person ever anyway as if he felt like that, you'd still be together.

Go via solicitors, let them deal with it. If he suggests you are golddigging, remember, if you gave up your career options to look after his home and DCs, nannies charge £9 an hour, cleaners charge £11 an hour (home counties prices), if he had to pay someone else to run your home and care for your DCs he'd probably be in the same financial position.

StableButDeluded · 29/01/2012 02:03

I'm going to throw a spanner in the works now and ask if you have considered using the family mediation service as a way of keeping the legal costs down?

Although your husband sounds like a bit of an arese arse, YOU want things to be sorted out amicably, so if you think there is ANY chance that you husband would be willing to at least discuss how you both want to split your assets, the mediation service could save you thousands in solicitors fees. Basically, you both sit down in a neutral environment with a trained mediator who will ensure that you discuss and consider all the things that need to be covered when you are dividing assets. They cannot tell you what to do, and they cannot offer you legal advice, but they are trained to know all the options that are available,and to make sure you cover them all so that neither one of you is left agreeing to something simply because you didn't know all the facts you had to consider. They can even conduct meetings with the two of you in seperate rooms, if either of you feel you can't actually see or talk to the other. If and when you both reach an agreement, the mediator will draw up what is called a 'memorandum of understanding'. This in itself isn't a legally binding document, but it is presented in such a way so that all your solicitor would need to do is check that the agreement is acceptable to you and not unfair, and it is then simply 'rubber-stamped' and made legal.

Using the mediation service can cost about £80 per hourly session, but fees are based on your income, and if you are entitled to legal aid you don't have to pay at all. Even complex cases often don't need more than 4-6 sessions, so you would potentially save a lot of money compared to doing everything via your solicitors. Especially when you consider that a solicitor will charge by the minute and for EVERYTHING- every phone call, letter, even when you ring them , YOU will be charged a fee. My solicitor charges £30 just for a photocopy of a letter from my husband's solicitor, and it's by no means an expensive firm.

I have recently started divorce proceedings, even though it was my husband who wanted the marriage ended, and is the one who wants the divorce ASAP. I chose to be the petitioner as I wanted some control over the proceedings, and so I can make sure our finances are sorted out before I apply for the decree absolut. I initially wanted to conduct everything via the solicitors as I didn't feel we could sit together and discuss anything, but even though our divorce is very straightforward ( no fighting over his access to DS, or maintenance etc) and our only asset of any value is the family home, I was shocked to find out that my husbands solicitor has quoted a fee of around £3-4000. So I will also be looking at a similar fee, and probably more.There is the possibility I may get legal aid, but another advantage of using the mediation service as much as you can in that case, is that legal aid received for mediation doesn't have to be paid back- whereas legal aid for solicitors fees does eventually have to be repaid.

We initially went to see the family mediation service months ago when my husband first said he wanted to separate. They were great & gave us lots of advice, but I was in too much shock at the time to take it all in. Now that we have both seen our own solicitors, and we both know what I am reasonably entitled to, we have decided to use the solicitors purely to conduct the divorce process, but to sort finances and everything else via mediation to save on solicitors fees.
.
They are very experienced, they can deal with very complex financial cases, and using them usually results in a much cheaper, less stressful, and quicker settlement. They will help keep the discussion calm and to the point, and if it becomes obvious that mediation isnt going to work for you, then you still always have the option of reverting to sorting everything through the soliciors.

My advice to you would be to see a good solicitor who specialises in family law to find out what where you stand and to get an idea of what you could be likely to get, as it sounds as though you may be willing to settle for less than you have areasonable right to. Then, contact the mediation service to see if you think it would be an option for you.

I was terrified initially that I would have to sell our home so that my husband could have his share of the equity (which I also assumed would be a straight 50/50 split, and so did he). It wasn't till I saw the solicitor that I discovered that in fact, there is no court in the land that would put me and our son out of the only home we have, just so my husband can have his share right now, and actually that it's quite normal for the mother to stay in the family home with the children until the youngest child leaves full time education, or reaches 18. Only then would the house have to be sold. That was an enormous weight off my mind, and once my husband realised this was the case (his solicitor must have pretty much confirmed the same) he dropped the idea of selling the house.
Also, my solicitor told me that I am entitled to 50% of my husbands pension for the time we were married (20 years) and that if and when the house is eventually sold, it is much more likely to be a 60/40 or even 70/30 per cent split of the proceeds in my favour.This of course is based on what they think the courts would decide should it come to that. If you went through mediation, you can settle for as little as you like, but it would be a shame to take less than you would be likely to get through the courts simply because you didn't have that legal advice.

This may not be of any use to you at all, and sorry it's such a long post. I just thought it was worth mentioning that you don't automatically have to use your solicitor for anything more than the bare divorce process- everything else is separate to that and mediation could be a much cheaper way of ensuring you get what you and your children are entitled to.The website for the mediation service is www.nfm.org.uk and there's loads of useful info on there about divorce, not just mediation. Good luck!

gettingeasier · 29/01/2012 09:01

Great post Stable !

Grit your teeth and stand up for yourself , do you think you are being greedy ? My xh tried some name calling to make me believe I was expecting more than I deserved but once he realised I wasnt wearing it and actually he answers to the law of the land not the law of xh he shut up

It cannot be overstated how important it is not to go down the path of least resistance , you are a long time divorced !!!

ThePinkPussycat · 29/01/2012 09:38

Or there is the possibility of using collaborative law - see the Resolution site for details, but basically you sit down with your sol and him and his sol, and try to reach agreement. Downside, if you don't reach agreement, and have to go the court route, you will then need new solicitors. I was hoping stbx would go this route, but he's just being an uncooperative arse.

If you do go the court route, you can settle at any time along the way.

From what OP says, it doesn't sound like her h would be very amenable though Sad

Downunderdolly · 29/01/2012 10:29

Hi Lady

My DH and I divorced last year (in Australia) and we did a round table with lawyers - kind of a mediated negotiation with legal representation.

Prior to that my ex was trying to sort out finances without any lawyers which I went along with for a while. I was very blindsided by the end of my marriage and also didn't want to appear greedy or unreasonable (although in my case the majority of assets such as they were were mine to begin with although he had a high paying job - he had been divorced before so had less money) and I was also still in love with him so didn't want to upset him. During the process I realised that my husband was manipulating me to get a much more favourable agreement than we would have got if we went to court. He got very very angry with me and also made me feel like I was being very unreasonable and very greedy when in fact I was'nt.

Comments from you like he would go mental if you mentioned his pension raise HUGE red flags to me. You should not be scared of his reaction to you mentioning part of your joint asset pool, paricularly if you don't have one and he did not encourage you to. You should not be scared of what he thinks. Without sounding harsh or knowing the back story, he/you are seeking a divorce. He is not going to think that 'well' of you as he is chosing not to be married to you anymore. His opinion should be the least of it. What should be important is ensuring that you get what you are legally entitled to and that YOU are comfortable with the path you are taking. I am not suggesting that you 'take him to the cleaners'. Just that you take proper advice on what division of assets you could get if you ended up in a court/conflict situation. Then take that split and see if you can negotiate it with mediation. In my case, I could have got + or - 15% of assets if we had ended up in court. I chose not to go to court as the potential upside would be wiped out in legal costs. However, I did 'let a few things go' and I can tell you that supermarkets don't take the moral high ground as payment so make sure you consider that this agreement is the future for you and your DCs. Please don't also underestimate the contribution you have made to childcare and home-making and the fact your future salary will be impacted by child care arrangements and career break.

good luck xx

wiseoldowl · 29/01/2012 11:48

Hi Lady,
just wanted to sympathise with you as am going through similar myself at present & it does hurt to the core! You have to focus on YOU & DC now
Just wanted to say, DONT settle for anything at all until thoroughly considering what is best for you & DC. Solr cannot tell you what to do but I would just say keep all your options open.
I have sent some questions to my sol so can update you more when I have more detail. I too want to move on (which in my mind is moving from Former Marital Home) but tbh if the best deal I can get involves staying here until DC is 18 (& ensuring that my XH & his bitch of an OW) don't get their hands on any cash, then thats what i'll do!

catsrus · 29/01/2012 11:52

My divorce (UK) was similar to dolly's and, like her, I let a few things go. We went the collaborative route, but he drove the process and the downside of that route is that you don't have a SHL fighting your corner.

It does sound to me like you need that lawyer to fight for you - but you need to have an honest conversation with her about the cost of her taking on a fight vs the potential gains. Our original conversation with a lawyer scared my exh re. what he was likely to get - so he was grateful for our eventual split where I agreed to 50:50. while I came out with less than I might have, he has been very fair with the dcs - paying for holidays, driving lessons etc.

It's really hard to have these kinds of conversations with volatile men, so taking a step back and letting your solicitor do it is probably the sensible thing to do. He will probably get a shock when his solicitor tells him what he is likely to get if it goes to court. As dolly says, both get the advice on what a likely split would be and then take it from there.

You will feel so much better when it's over!

Quattrocento · 29/01/2012 11:58

I'd suggest you DON'T go for mediation. It sounds to me for all the world as though you are in shock and you need someone fighting your corner.

Downunderdolly · 29/01/2012 12:05

hey - just to clarify and not sure if it is the same process in UK - our 'roundtable' consisted of 2 x solicitors and us to trying to come to agreement. Solicitors were driving it based on what they were advising it but done this way to avoid legnthy court proceedings. actually in our case my ex was so much of an arse that after 2 mins my solicitor took me outside and said she refused to deal with him as he wasn't there to negotiate. his solicitor I think gave him a reality check and we ended up in separate rooms with his solicitor and mine going back and forth horse trading. almost funny if it wasn't so tragic. agree you definately need someone fighting your corner as it is so easy to cave.

ThePinkPussycat · 29/01/2012 12:16

That's the collaborative law process I outlined upthread Downunder

springaroundthecorner · 29/01/2012 19:35

stablebutdeluded thanks for that brilliant post. You've explained better than any person or book or website I've read on mediation.

You've got some brilliant advisers on here Lady Smile

LadyEatsCrispsALot · 29/01/2012 19:50

Hey there. A better day today. Spoke to STBX about I was feeling re finances. I took Stables advice and told him about mediation and how it would benefit us both by coming to some agreement instead of involving solicitors straight away.
He has agreed to come to mediation with me. Yay!
Let's hope this works. I think if he hears what is fair from someone 'official' he will take it on board. Fingers crossed.

OP posts:
piellabakewell · 29/01/2012 21:28

Sounds a lot like my situation - marital home was worth about £700k unmortgaged, DDs aged 10 and 12. I was offered £200k and took it. Three years on, I am in a lovely but tiny house with DDs, huge mortgage, but miles happier. He refused to leave the marital home and I just wanted to get away from his abusive, controlling behaviour.

We had the First Appointment (financial hearing) on Friday and he agreed that he has to give me a further lump sum. There is now a mortgage of £110k on his house (raised to pay me, he also had £90k savings I knew nothing about) and we have to get the house revalued. I am likely to receive a minimum of £50k and it could be as much as £100k on top of the £200k he has already given me. There is no way I will accept less than 50% of the value of the house, the children live with me 2/3 of the time.

FamilyMediator · 14/04/2012 17:07

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WetAugust · 14/04/2012 18:30

I was married for 4 years - 3 of which were spend divorcing XH and I ended up iwth 70%.

The welfare of the children is paramount and if that means you have to stay in the family home until they are no longer in full-time education, that's what will happen.

I would be very very wary indeed of agreeing any setlement with you H that meant you were unable/stretched to pay the mortgage on the house you occupy. It would eb a disaster if you defaulted on mortgage payments - were repossessed and DCs then went to live with well-off H.

I was also told that the decree absolute would not be given until the judge was satisfied that sufficient financial provision had been agreed to support the children.

Try mediation but you may have to go down the more formal route i.e. solicitor to solicitor, for a fair financial settlement.

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