Particularly keen to get perspective from mothers with sons....

[Punkatheart]

Over a year ago, my OH was really buckling under huge amounts of work stress. He was strained, detached and even withdrawn from our daughter. I spoke to his mother frequently, telling her that I was very worried. He even had some very odd health scares and was acting oddly. Despite being told that he was suffering from a possible DVT, he had blood thinners from a midnight locum and wanted to go to work the next day, not to hospital (as recommended) I asked his mother for help and she did not help, or even speak to him about anything.

Fast forward to July and on the day his work contract ended, he told me he was leaving, to live with his mother. Then he did not contact me but I knew from mutual friends and our bank balance, that he was not working and was instead getting pissed. I know some men behave like this but mine has never behaved in this way. Again I asked for help and for him to go to a counsellor. We were receiving cut off notices for gas and electric etc.

He has now settled in terms of work and is still with his mother. Finally she has got him to see a counsellor but I now feel it may all be too late.

My question? (GET TO THE BLOODY POINT, PUNKATHEART) is that how can I stop feeling so resentful of her? She is a lovely woman and we have never had any issues before, not a single cross word. But she is not being particularly kind to me, blaming me for the fact that my 14 year old does not want to see her father.

I don't want to insult anyone with sons or assume anything - but is it normal to back your son 100%, regardless of the situation? I was trying to imagine my daughter in this situation and I know that I would have talked to her about it and tried to help if asked.

Please could I have some of your wisdom?

To be straight with you, Punk, I don't think your mil is the problem at all. By your own admission, you got on great until now, she is not manipulative or possessive about her son and your OH is not a mother's boy. What a great mil! Wish mine were like that.

It's your relationship with your OH that you should be concerned about.

Um...I am talking about things that were happening before he left....would you not talk your son out of going to work after being diagnosed with a possible DVT? Would you not then, when you son was living with you and clearly going through hell, persuade him to go to a counsellor to get help?

That is exactly why I need opinions of particularly mothers with sons - so that I can understand the dynamics. Telling me that I jealousy and irrational is truly not at all helpful.

I suppose LadyMedea he is an adult, but she has always doted on him - so that's why I was puzzled.

But I think the earlier comment really pinpointed the answer I need - she had been pretending that everything was OK with her son, despite the evidence that pointed otherwise. It was too painful to think otherwise. That does help - it makes me feel much more empathetic and indeed helps the process.

I will continue to help the relationship with her and DD of course..

Not sure if I'm going to word this right, but some people, however nice, are just a bit inadequate sometimes. Perhaps she functions better (or thinks she does) if she sweeps a few things under the carpet. So it's not that she's ignoring you because she blames you...more that it's all a bit hard to cope with so the easiest way is to keep you out of the equation. Much easier to focus on her dgd's relationship with her ds than to deal with you and the cancer (so glad that's under control btw).

Maybe she wants to avoid what she perceives as awkwardness. She may well be feeling guilty but to make ammends would mean she'd have to admit she'd been offhand in the first place. My mum was a bit like this. I suppose I'm saying please don't take this behaviour as a snub, when it's just your mil being a bit crap.

I also try not to get involved with my children's (sons and daughters) relationships. I will say my piece and then shut up. I won't take sides, as this can come back to bite you on the bum when they make up again!!! However, if one of my children was having a breakdown, then I most certainly would have them to stay, but I would encourage them to build bridges viv a vis their relationship.

Gosh what a revelation - that I should be concerned with my relationship with my OH, not my MIL. The former is a long term aim - when the time is right with the counsellor, I am going to join him in the process. That is the main feature. My MIL is a subplot. I want in the meantime to UNDERSTAND these feelings. She is a lovely lady but now is angry with me and I would like to behave well, try and reassure her.

clicarhel I think I get what Punk is saying.

Her MIl did stay out of the way of the OP's and her H problems. but also our of the way of her very physical son's problems and then out of the way of her son's psychological problems, even though they had nothing to do with the relationship.

The issue here is the difference between relationship issue that you might not want to get involved with and the personnal issue (mental and physical health) where you might want to support your dcs and get involved.

Do you think that parents should stay out of the way of their dcs decision even if this is about their health?

Maybe the woman's attitude is that he is a grown man and that if anybody should be doing the talking to him now it should be his partner, not her.

All perfectly reasonable. I know you are not formally married but you are in a long-term relationship all the same. 'Leave and cleave' is the old saying.

But she is now willing to give him a roof over his head. Believe me, if she were the interfering type she would now be relishing this, but she is not so she wants him out asap.

I come from a family who talk about everything, analysis things until they pop. He does not - they are polite and twee, but not at all confrontational. His father was a secretive man, never addressed issues. My family are noisy and intense. That can affect relationships - different upbringing. I didn't think you harsh at all, lemon - I fully understand your point.

There is no 'mothers of sons' dynamic here.

You are extrapolating a 'dynamic' from your interpretation of one woman and one adult man.

I am not sure how you think exploring this will help.

If you think her behaviour towards you is unfair, if you are angry with her, then that is between you and her.

Your op is honest I am sure but, quite unintentionally I am sure, you are asking 'mothers of sons, are you all a bit vile'

If you want me to comment on why this one woman may be behaving in a particular way I can try. But your suggestion that this is about claustrophobic unhealthy mother and son relationships is just stereotyping really.

As for her getting involved in her son's problems, it is very difficult not to associate a person's mental health with their relationship with their partner.
There is a tendency-sometimes true, sometimes not- to think that mental health problems are very much related to relationship quality.
Simply put, a crap relationship can cause one or both partners to become f*ed up mentally.

If, for example, a close friend of mine became depressed, my first thought would be: 'Is it a relationship issue?' because, believe me, it will be the case the vast majority of the time.
Now I am NOT saying that your relationship with your OH is at the root of his problems at all, but I can see why your mil considered that it might be and preferred to stay out of it.

Good grief, where on earth have I said or implied that 'mothers of sons, are you all a bit vile' Sorry that is ridiculous. This woman is not vile and I have never even alluded to that, just hurt and perhaps behaving differently from her usual self. I do not want any more harm to be done, particularly to my DD who is suffering. I am not angry, just resentful that things were not addressed earlier. I was asking for experiences - of which I have had a few expressed here.

I have never said that this a claustrophobic unhealthy mother at all. She is a loving mother of an only boy. I am not dealing in cliches and in fact asked for all types of advice.

Punk she is hurting too.
She wants her child to be happy and as it happens you are one of the main characters in this play. Easy to see you as the 'bad one'.
She might also have thought that you were 'interfering' too much by suggesting that she should convince him to go and see a counsellor. For some poeple, a counsellor is a last chance type of situation, someone that you go and see only hen you are really mentally ill. Acknowledging that her son is 'psychologically' or 'mentaly' ill might be something very difficult.
She might als think that, as you are living in separate houses, you do not have any say in what he does anymore.

Only ideas though.

Depression I can understand as a possible indication of a bad relationship. But I watched him become exhausted with work, after being a loving happy family man. He is also still very burnt out and he is not living with me. Also a DVT is not psychological. His low testosterone count was not psychological. And so forth. My MIL does not think that I am the cause of all his problems - the only thing she is blaming me for is my DD's refusal to see her son. She feels that I am being manipulative - I am not.

Good point, Accross. I haven't looked at if from that angle. Yes, it must be hard for her. Maybe I just need to take the rap as the bad one, if she insists on seeing it that way. I think I am big enough!

OP: I think that going forward, all you can do is to try to reassure your MIL that you are doing all you can to facilitate a rapprochment between your DD and OH and that it will take time as your DD is only a child and has been badly hurt by the effects of her father's behaviour towards her. She is only a child and as I've said before, see things in black and white, not shades of grey. Impress upon your MIL that you are doing all you can, but that it will take time......

Punk you also don't know what he's telling her. If he doesn't understand why he feels the way he does, or hasn't recognised fully that his behaviour is wrong and his own responsibility, he may be putting an entirely different spin on it when speaking to your MIL. It's unfortunate that you both want the same thing and seem to be on different sides in terms of getting it.

Your dd can't and shouldn't be forced to be ok with such a radical change in her father. Your MIL should realise that.

And perhaps ask her for some advice on how to get on about it? Tell her waht you have already done and that it hasn't amek a difference?

I agree that DVT is not psychological, but perhaps she thought that you could talk him out if it. That's good in a way, can't you see that? She thought: 'Oh, Punkatheart will persuade him. I don't have to worry'. She was wrong, but that is besides the point.

I think that a decent friend/parent would encourage their adult child to step up to their responsibilities and would be neutral because that's fair and you never know if you two will get back together.

clicarhel, my MIL did exactely that.
Thinking that I would be in a better place than her to speak to her son...

To be honest, I wish she had spoken to him. At least there would have been 2 of us telling him the same thing. The message might have hit home sooner :(

It is sad, AccrossTheChannel, but it is also understandable because marriage/long-term relationships are about leaving your birth family behind and finding somebody who will care for you. To be honest, a mil who stays out of relationship problems of her children (I exclude episodes of domestic abuse from this and physical illness where the family should lend a hand) is much, much more desirable -and natural- than one that interferes. I know which one I prefer, but acknowledge the downside, too.

If my daughter were being beaten by her spouse, I'd be straight in there to protect her. If they were 'just' having relationship problems, I'd stay out.

Ok. I have re-read what I have said. I can understand why you read it that way but that was not what I meant, which was why I put "quite unintentionally" in there. It was poorly worded though and I apologise for that. You are just saying 'she is doing x and I am feeling angry about it but is that a mother/son thing' when it is of course just about their particular relationship and nothing else.

I guess I am just seeing your trying to factor in a 'mother son dynamic' as unhelpful. My son is an adult now albeit only just. I can't say that I would act as she has. But I know my relationship with my son does encompass trying to ensure i never interfere in his relationship. I would imagine that once grandchildren are involved I would be even more wary of being caught up in that.

I am just saying if you think exploring how mothers treat their sons will help it will just be a waste of energy. There is no typical mother/son.
And if my dd or ds were in need I would give them a roof over their head but I would want them to be independent again asap.

I guess I am just desperate, sad and trying to make sense of things.