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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Sabotaging my marriage...

26 replies

AsSoonAs · 25/01/2012 14:48

OK...H had affair about 9 months ago, which totally destroyed my world and everything I thought about him. I struggled with what to do, but in the end decided to try again as we have DC2 and have a 20 year history, the majority of which was happy. We have been through relationship counselling which ended about 3 months ago and was good for us, BUT since Xmas I have been getting angrier, resentful and bitter. I don't know why now, there has been no further discoveries, no triggers other than the usual (OW - former friend who lives in the next street) which I have had to get used to so don't think that should suddenly start me off again.

It feels to me as if I'm sabotaging my own relationship and I can't stop it. I've told H how I feel and he says he understands and is being v.v patient with me but this just inflames me even more.
I am so angry (internally), I don't know if it's directed at me (for being weak) or him (for being weak). I really don't want my marriage to fail that was the reason I decided to forgive and work at our marriage, so why am I on self-destruct?
I have been lurking around here for some time and reading any "affair" type threads which pop up (sadly alot!), the advice given is really helpful but those of you that have been through this and are giving your advice sound so settled and "back on track", it bothers me that perhaps we are not healing as we should be...
Anyone experience similar and care to share how you dealt with it...
Thanks in advance Grin

OP posts:
crazzylife · 25/01/2012 15:41

Hi AsSoonAS.
I completely understand your issue.

My DH had an affair and the last contact he had with OW was over a year ago.
But I can't seem to get past it either. The affair was long and complicated, I asked him to leave but he didn't and although I tried to make it work, I can't anymore.

He is a good father, helps around the house etc but I just can't see past all the deception.

We get on on a daily basis but i'm not sure if I love him. I can't talk to him about my feelings because I feel I can't share things with someone who has deceived me.

Staying together for the kids (i know everyone will say it is wrong but there are many unhappy children and adults who come from broken families - the OW was from a broken family and she thought it was ok to destroy some one else's marriage if it meant she would be happy).

Not really much support for you, but I'm feeling sad and really lonely and venting.

LiarsWife · 25/01/2012 16:02

I did this with my first marriage .. but I went one step further and had several 'revenge' shags with people from work .. I think I actually wanted him to leave me so that I didn't leave him .. he forgave me but I couldn't forgive either myself or him and ended up leaving about a year after I found out. No children involved though

bobs · 25/01/2012 16:11

No expert but it sounds like it's now you need the counselling! Personally I no longer resent all the things DH has done over the past 19 yrs as I've come to the conclusion that I no longer want to be with him and for me it's more a question of "when", not "if" I leave him. He no longer has the ability to hurt me or influence how i feel (God he hates that {grin} Grin). But if I were to still want it to work I'd need some heavy duty counselling to get me over all the built-up resentment

NotLivingTheDream · 25/01/2012 20:01

I could have written the OP except its been over 2 years for us. Seemed to be recovering well at first. Had DS about 4 mths ago and for last 2 months I have been laid awake at night hating him. Like you, I am not sure which of us I hate more, though I am leaning more to me for being weak.
We didnt have any counselling but he has made efforts to change... the problem is that every time he does something nice for me, I either think its just an act and he doesnt mean it or I get angry with myself for spending 10 yrs with someone who didnt treat me well all the time.
Like bobs, its a question of when, not if..........
Sorry I'm no help.

LadyMedea · 25/01/2012 21:06

Definitely sounds like you might benefit from some counselling on your own. Being angry is very understandable but from the distress of your post, but both you and I know that it isn't doing you any good.

sternface · 25/01/2012 21:31

I don't think counselling for you is necessarily going to help if your husband hasn't taken enough action to change since the affair. What's he done since? Why does he think the affair happened? Do you agree on its cause? Do you know everything about the affair from start to end that you need to know? How does he react when you want to talk about it? Does he ever sit down and suggest that you do? What behaviours have changed in your husband? How have you changed - not in relation to him or your marriage, but as a person?

I think if you tell us more about what's happened in the 'recovery' period, posters will be better able to help you, but do bear in mind that 9 months is not long at all and there is no statute of limitations on unresolved pain.

MadAboutHotChoc · 25/01/2012 21:39

Are there any other issues in the relationship that could be causing resentment?

Could it be that there is something he does or say however innocent that brings it all back?

Have you had any anniversaries recently?

Do you think your counselling ended too soon?

I think going through infidelity is very traumatic and you can only move on at your own pace. Even though I seem to be doing well, I still have the occasional day when I feel low but these are becoming rare - however I have quite a few significant anniversaries coming up in the Spring, I am dreading these as I know these will bring up painful memories.

MadAboutHotChoc · 25/01/2012 21:47

I too would be interested to know how he has changed since the affair and how he has addressed his weaknesses/character flaws that led to the affair?

AsSoonAs · 25/01/2012 21:53

Thank you for your replies.
Crazzylife I worry that I'm staying for the children also, I know this is a big no-no, but he's a good dad and I don't want my children to miss out, and they will miss out if we split up, All of us will. I want them to be happy, enjoying time with mummy and daddy together, days out, holidays, or even just bed/bath and storytimes. On the surface things seems to be getting back to normal, my dad (who I confided in at the time)said just the other day that it was nice to see us looking so happy and settled. Underneath, I resent the fact and am so bloody angry that he did this too us and I'm having to suck it up, play happy because I don't want my kids to miss out. I see my life stretching out before me and I'm not sure where its going to end up. I'm 40 now by the time the kids are grown (i'm thinking 18 here) I will be 56. That worries me Sad
Liarswife I can understand this, I find myself thinking I should go out and find someone, all shiny, new and exciting, give them the best of me and let him deal with shit and lies like I had too. I know though this would be the end of us, Not because of his reaction but because of mine, I know like you I wouldn't be able to forgive myself.
bobs Yes, I wonder if perhaps we had counselling too soon, is that possible? Although it was good for us, it enabled us to talk to each other with some meaning IYSWIM. I wish I could feel like you do, I really do. I can't though because despite all I say, deep down I think I still love him. When I have a good day I catch a sight of what we had, could of had and I just want to scream "WHY?" why the hell would you do this, destroy us?"
NotLivingTheDream I completely agree with the effort to change and nice acts..I look at my H and wonder why he's doing it. I can't take it at face value.
It also makes me angry - how mad is that? When I get angry I shut down on him, have to bite my tongue to stop myself from telling him to f&** off.
Oh I don't know, this post is probably full of contradictions but that's how I'm feeling I guess.

OP posts:
AsSoonAs · 25/01/2012 21:55

xpost with the rest of your replies...I'll reply to you in a mo. It takes me so long to type Grin

OP posts:
Omgomgomgomg · 25/01/2012 22:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AsSoonAs · 25/01/2012 22:59

Ladymedea I have wondered about individual counselling but it's so expensive. We had 12 weeks of relationship counselling and that nearly broke the bank. But you are right, the anger is not doing me any good at all, just wish I could find the anger off switch Grin
Sternface & Madabouthotchoc The affair ended 9 months ago when I demanded he tell me truth. I told him our marriage was over anyway unless he started being honest with me. He broke down (don't they all) and admitted to sleeping with a mutual friend over a 4 month period. It had built up from texting and FB in the 3 months previous. It was the sudden secrecy surrounding his phone and changed passwords on FB together with a general moodiness and me suddenly not being able to do anything right that got my suspicions up. After snooping around I finally found some pretty incriminating evidence, which he denied as me over reacting, I refused to stand for this and that's when I demanded the truth. He moved out for a month whilst I tried to get my head around it all. He suggested counselling and arranged it all. He has been willing to talk about the affair whenever I wanted to, but has never instigated the conversation himself.
During the counselling alot of things came out in relation to his childhood and it became apparent he needed to be seen as a "rescuer" and "liked by all", this caused many boundaries to be blurred which is how I see this sorry mess happened. He is working on this, but can a person change what he has been all his life?? I'm not sure what else he can do, he has become aware of the person he is and says he will never put himself in this situation again.

I don't think I know the whole truth, I don't think I ever will. All the texts were deleted (other than the 2/3 I managed to see), when he gave me his passwords (for everything) I checked his mobile account, some days there were 200 texts flying between them - he can't remember any of these conversations apparently they were just everyday how are yous and rubbish about the day. I don't believe this but he swears this is true Sad. There were also charges for picture messaging which I have had no explanation of other than that he sent photos of a day out to a local amusement we went to and which she wondered what it was like and if her DS would like it - 12 photos? I don't think we took 12 photos but I can't be sure which is where he has me..I can't argue what I can't prove. There were in total 36 pictures sent but he again can't remember what.
Does any of this matter now though? I know they slept together it can't get any worse than that. I haven't asked for any of the details, perhaps this plays on my mind. I do wonder how, where and if she was better than me Hmm
Omg So sorry you are going through this too, there are so many threads on here at the moment about affairs. Its so shit. My H turned 40 at the start of the affair - midlife crisis fucking fiasco too perhaps?

OP posts:
sternface · 25/01/2012 23:21

First the pictures. If he replied to her photo messages, it often shows up on a bill as a photo message he has sent. Send him one of your own photos to verify this - get him to reply in text format and see if it matches what's on those bills. That said, it's unlikely that these photos were all innocent and he probably sent some of his own that he can recall, but doesn't want to tell you about.

He can remember more details than he's telling you, but like some of the other things you've mentioned, he's minimising and lying. He will swear blind this is not to hurt you, but it's actually self-protection.

Your imagination about what happened between them is likely to be far worse than the reality, so give some thought to whether that knowledge might help you, but he does need to be honest with you.

He needs to start conversations. If he isn't, he's hiding from it and hoping it will get buried.

As regards him changing, yes it's possible but it takes a long time and a will to do it. Counselling on his own would also help with that, although I appreciate it would be expensive. Personally, I think couples often rush to relationship counselling when the relationship wasn't the real problem. Also, if you still see evidence of 'people-pleasing' in him, it will give you no confidence at all.

Did he read anything? Did you?

Based on what you've posted, I think you're feeling the way you do because there are massive gaps in the story, you're not convinced he's capable of change and you're putting too much focus on 'staying together for the children'.

lisaro · 25/01/2012 23:46

It sounds like you're grieving, in that process the anger comes later. Sorry I've nothing else to add but I hope you manage to find peace of mind.

BayPolar · 26/01/2012 01:58

My guy just had a one night stand (would have been more, I am sure, if I hadn't found out) and still 4 years on I feel anger and resentment and I am not sure that I can ever heal enough to walk back into his arms once this work stint is over and we are supposed to be starting life over together, traveling the world forever, and so on.
When somebody you love cheats on you, even one night, they have NO idea the depth of damage it creates.
Bloody idiots.

Omgomgomgomg · 26/01/2012 06:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MadAboutHotChoc · 26/01/2012 07:20

I think the reason why you are having difficulty recovering is because your H is still not showing openess and honesty. Hence the anger and resentment.

You do not need to know details of what they did in bed but I think he should tell you when and where these meetings took place e.g did they use a hotel, how did they account for the time and expense, did they use work time or booked leave etc.

He needs to show that he has changed and it seems from what you have written, he is still showing some of the character flaws that resulted in his affair.

Have you read Shirley Glass's Not Just Friends - he needs to read this as well.

AsSoonAs · 26/01/2012 20:44

God yes you are right baypolar the depth of damage is indescribable, the pain is physical pain and it hurts, hurts, hurts. Why do these men/women do this to the person they supposedly love and why do I have to find it in my heart to forgive him. It should never of happened, I do wish I was strong enough to walk away and not give a hoot.
Sternface thank you for the picture advice, I shall try that out. I know photos were sent, I found one on his phone of her several weeks before I confronted him, but it was just an ordinary snapshot, nothing incriminating but it added to my suspicions. I guess its another thing that I'll never really know the truth about. And there is no way he would start a conversation about the affair, never ever, precisely for the reasons you state.
MadaboutHotChoc I do know that they met after work, it was a Friday night special for them both, apparently they would go for a drive and do the deed. I don't know any other details though, I didn't want to know. It's now that I am beginning to question just what happened, why was she so great that he had to keep going back for more. Why was she worth abusing me over, the lies and rows, the general misery in our house all for her.
Another thing that bothers is me is not so much the sex (although I am mightily fucked off about that), that's done and it can't be taken back, but what was said at the time. What did he say about me to her, what did she say about me to him. When I ask him he says they didn't talk about me at all - can this be true?? Surely after you've shagged some OW (whose knows us both) you'd say something...even if it's just along the lines of "AsSoonAs will kill me if she finds out about this" I just can't get my head around it.
We discussed this in counselling, he says it wasn't about me at all, it was all him and his need to feel wanted..like omg said sexy again. he's adamant he never talked about our marriage, I don't believe him and I think this is what is stopping me from letting it go Sad
I have not read Shirley Glass's Not Just Friends, but do have Andrew Marshalls' How can I trust you again, I am finding that quite helpful. I came in tonight to find him reading it - so that's got to be good right..
Sigh..what a fucking mess and thanks for listening!

OP posts:
AccrossTheChannel · 26/01/2012 21:04

I think the reason that you are finding it so difficult is that you have entered another stage and you are grieving 'what should have been'. Mainly because you have what you would have wanted or thought you had right in front of you.

It's neither good nor bad. If you allow that anger to turn into ressentment, you will probably not be able to 'save' your marriage. If you can get passed the anger and the pain (and b** hell it is very painful!), then you might gain a better understanding and start to really forgive him. But I think this is just part of the 'process' iyswim.

MadAboutHotChoc · 26/01/2012 21:34

It is shitty Sad

I think you would find Not Just Friends very helpful - it explains a lot about why people have affairs (and for many it is the ego boosting attention that they become addicted to) and she understands so well the pain and trauma that betrayed parties go through.

Omgomgomgomg · 27/01/2012 11:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

sternface · 27/01/2012 11:54

Your last post tells you everything you needed to know in your OP.

You don't have all the information you need. That's why you you're feeling as you do. You know instinctively that there is more to know, to understand and to resolve and that there will be no peace with your decision until you do. The counselling, although helpful to an extent, has failed to tease this out.

He is telling lies - to himself and to you. He might not have discussed his marriage, but he will have permitted an impression of it, by his actions and responses to the OW's questions about it. She will also have made comments about you and your marriage that he allowed to go unchallenged. He will have communicated things about you and your marriage, without uttering the words himself. Replace the word 'talked' with 'communicated' and you might get somewhere.

He's telling the truth though when he says this wasn't about you.

What might help though is to ask him what he told the OW this was about. Did he say it was all about her, making her feel special? Did he pretend to have feelings for her that weren't there?

What did he think this was about, at the time? If he thought it was a bit of escapism and trivialised it, was he honest about that with her?

AsSoonAs · 29/01/2012 21:21

I think your right sternface, this thread has at least helped me to see why I can't let go, I don't yet have all the facts I need. Time is creeping on, in April it will be a year, I expected to feel better than this by now. Some days the pain is as bad as it was when I just found out.

What can I do? I don't think HE knows what to do, say. We went out last night just the 2 of us, I was expecting to have a really nice night, but it was awful. The things said in this thread were playing on my mind. I said to him that " I can't see us getting any better", I didn't say anything else I wanted to see where he would take the conversation, he said nothing, absolutely nothing. I waited for 20 mins (timed it)with this comment just hanging there and then he looked at me and said "I'm sorry, I don't know what else to do, I'm trying my hardest to make things right". He probably thinks he is, He's caring and attentive, he takes the children out so I can have me time, he cooks tea for us when he comes in from work, he spoils me, but none of this is addressing the real issue is it? How can I help him see that? He isn't listening to me when I say it. Are there any good books out there that address the affair purely from a betrayed partners view point, what he needs to do to help me..anybody got any suggestions. Honestly, I think he is as lost as me with the whole situation.

OP posts:
Mumcentreplus · 29/01/2012 21:35

Whar do you want ..need from him...you need to let him know...

Bellybee · 30/01/2012 00:51

The thing is, even if you do ever get "the whole truth" from him, ie about the texts or pictures, will you believe him anyway? I have apparently had the full story from my DH about a flirtation that went way beyond the boundaries of appropriate and was no doubt about to develop into an affair had I not discovered it and confronted him. Thing is I guess I will never quite believe him. It's hard though when you have kids, you can't just rip that apart unless it's the only way. From my own perspective, the real test of the relationship will be when the kids finish school and go off to live their lives. We won't have that as an excuse to stay together anymore and will have to get by on the strength of the relationship itself.
I think it's like any grief...time eventually lessens the pain and things will slowly seem less bad and may even turn good again, but it needs time and patience.