is there 'always' an ow when a husband just leaves. no explanation given and won't discuss it.

[piratecat]

this was my experience some 5+ yrs ago.

I asked and asked him to tell me.

yes we'd been under pressure, new baby etc, work. He'd started to withdraw about 6 months earlier, but I never doubted that underneath we loved one another.

We were so very close, and very good friends.

After being a member of mn all these yrs, it does make me wonder.

oh, 6 weeks later he told me he had met someone new.

A couple of yrs later we had a disagreement about something, and i said, well of course i feel like that, you left me for someone else.

Still he denied it.

wish i knew for sure. as it was the biggest shock of my life :(

Hattytown

I didn't say that the solicitor advised for using adultery, The solicitor gets nothing if the client goes against devorcing their partner, the solicitor is putting further seeds of doubt in to the mind of the client.

"The OP is talking about men walking out on marriages that have been non-abusive - and to the appearance of one of the parties at least, content apart from the normal strains of modern life."

and this can't be seen from the mans POV? (waits for the "what about the menz" comment)

In my personal life experiences...yes :(

Good luck :)

I don't really understand your question Boney.

I think it's everyone's right to leave a relationship that is no longer working. I think especially where children are involved, it's everyone's responsibility to try to rescue the relationship and make efforts to improve it, before leaving. The exception to that is when the relationship is abusive, in which case it is better for everyone concerned that the relationship ends. The gender of the parties is irrelevant to that; it applies to men and women and same-sex relationships.

I think if a relationship has broken down, both parties have a right to know all the contributing factors. Otherwise people are left as the OP was, still troubled and bewildered 5 years later and unable to 'close' the experience.

A good solicitor will share her experience with a client, so that the client is prepared for the factors they will use in the petition if she decides to proceed. This will include the time-limits that operate when adultery is used as a factor. If a solicitor fails to tell a client all this during the first consultation, it would be negligent and not in her client's best interests.

you are backtracking

first you say that a solicitor will not use adultory then she will.

also "A good solicitor will share her experience with a client"
a solicitor is not there to share experiences, they are there to advise.

"both parties have a right to know"
why do both parties have a right to know? just because one party thinks that it is a happy relationship doen't mean that they aren't abusive.

as for the "repeated surveys" statistics can show whatever you want them to.

not all men leave due to OW, not all men are happy in their relationships. Some just can't cope with the pressure s put on them from homew and work, some are undermined by their wives to such an extent that their children do not respect them anymore.

there are many reasons for a man to leave and there are also reasons why a man wouldn't tell his wife why.

my all time favourite was a friend who if he said anything that his DP considered to put her in a bad light would start with "so its all my fault, is it?"

I don't think you or I can ever know things 'for certain' about other people, ClaraSage.

I suspect that most men who leave apparently good marriages have been planning it for some time and are involved with someone else who has a vested interest in them leaving.

The only men I know irl who left without another women already lined up, were those who were being physically/emotionally abused, or where they found out their other halfs were having affairs and decided they couldn't live like that

I don't think men and women are very different - they grow apart, they feel taken for granted, they can't cope with certain behaviours anymore...but if a man calls it a day, he is pretty much guaranteed to lose his daily contact with his kids and become the every second weekend Dad that people seem to think is fine and 'the norm'. So they stay until one day they meet someone who confirms that yes, they can be happy again and yes, they are utterly miserable. Can see this happening to a family member of mine one day. He stays now for the kids - his wife appears oblivious to his misery or can't/won't change.

Doubtless when/if he goes he will be a bastard.

No I am not backtracking. A solicitor is there to advise a client. That means telling a client the facts and also advising her based on practical experience. A solicitor cannot act without instruction. So in this instance, a solicitor would advise about the legal and financial ramifications if an OW is involved, give the facts about what is required to use adultery as a factor and then IME, advise against using it and suggest unreasonable behaviour instead. A solicitor cannot however 'use' adultery and act unilaterally.

I thought I'd made it clear that IMO, abuse is the exception? I apologise if not.

Otherwise, I do think people have a right to know why in the opinion of the other party, the relationship has broken down - and a right to know all the facts, including the presence of a third party.

I think men have just as much right to leave a relationship as women, but I think both sexes have a responsibility to be honest about why they are unhappy and have left.

Why do you have a problem with the pronoun 'her' Boney? It's very common now to use interchangeable pronouns in order for something to read more easily. There are also lots of female solicitors about....

I highlighted your use of the pronoun.

you could have used solicitor as genderless and still have had the same effect.

I don't think men and women are very different - they grow apart, they feel taken for granted, they can't cope with certain behaviours anymore...but if a man calls it a day, he is pretty much guaranteed to lose his daily contact with his kids and become the every second weekend Dad that people seem to think is fine and 'the norm'. So they stay until one day they meet someone who confirms that yes, they can be happy again and yes, they are utterly miserable

^^ this

i personally know 2 men who left their dw's for OW for this reason

really interesting thread.

Did you hear the DW's side of the story Mistymountain - I know my DH was painting me black to his friends and PIL when he took up with OW and I am sure his friends/PIL would be thinking the same as you if he hadn't put them right after the affair. There are reasons why some DWs exhibit certain behaviours (my DH called me controlling when actually he was doing a very good job of controlling me ).

Most problems in marriages can be fixed (except violence and addiction) but it takes willingness and hard work on the part of both parties (OW/OM just muddy the waters even more) - surely we owe it to the DCs to try and put things right/make things better for everyone so that we can all have happy and fulfilling lives.

FWIW I know a man who left his DW for no one, took time out to live on his own, got some counselling and so did his DW (also made him realise that his DD (DW's not so DSD) was no angel) and they were back together 6 months later but both parties were able to look at themselves and change.

"Did you hear the DW's side of the story Mistymountain"

back to the wronged woman scenario.

there is no hope

good point msitymountain and something i was thinking earlier. A lot of men stay and endure bad relationships because they know they will lose their kids, they will get alternate weekends and a day during the week (if they live near enough still to manage that). Its no wonder they need the push of finding someone else who brings a bit of happiness back into their lives and makes them belive they can live again before they summon up the courage to leave.

Fabbychic - are your parents divorced?

(I'm sure you'll say they are)

Because staying together for the sake of the children is not some antiquated, anti-feminist stance, it is a totally valid position to take.

Children are terribly damaged by divorce - not always, and I know many many parents work hard at making it less painful. I was. I'm 41 and it still colours my life - even though I'm happy, have a good marriage, lovely kids and a successful career!

You may or may not have been desperately unhappy in your marriage. I hope you aren't now.

But to make the sweeping statement that no couple should stay together for the children makes me bloody furious!

Good points there countingto10 ESP about taking time out to think about issues and how these can be addressed. Sadly that doesnt happen often (how many threads here have something about wanting to seek counselling but one of parties will refuse ). I have known women as well as men who wouldn't do this.

This is obviously turning into lets justify having an affair thread . There is no justification for an affair - if you are not happy in your relationship try and sort it out with counselling, better communcations/honesty and if that doesn't work and/or partner is unwilling to participate then try and seperate amicably with least upset to DCs as possible and without involving an OM/OW.

yeah i knew both the dw's counting one of them better than the other. that one was my brothers DW, they had been together since they were 16 and the relationship had run its course a long time ago, she was controlling, undermining, materialistic and jealous, although he wasn't blameless, because he was bored and unhappy he didn't always treat her very nicely. he isn't with OW anymore but they had 5 happy years together and are still friends. he is now married to a fantastic woman who is right for him in every way, i have never seen him happier. the other man was being emotionally abused by his XW to the point where he was almost suicidal, the only thing that kept him going was his DC. some of it was physical, she would slap him and punch him. she made him feel so shit about himself that he believed that no one else would ever want him. well it turns out someone did., and four years later he is also very happily married to that person with more DC and his exW is still a bitter horrible woman who is still trying to make his life miserable by keeping him away from his DC. her DC will see her for what she is though one day and she'll have nobody.

and both men just didn't love their dw's anymore, its sad but it happens. i know this thread is about "the men" but i left my first marriage because i didn't love my exH anymore. i was having a bit of an EA with another man but he was a symptom of a bad marriage, not the cause.

i do believe most men won't dare leave until they have found something they think is better, its very cowardly but when you put into the equation that when men leave, their DW's usually get to keep the DC it makes it a lot harder for men to leave. if i thought i would have lost my DC when i split up with exH i would have ridden it out through wanting to be with my dc and i believe this is a big reason why men stay in shit marriages.

i don't think there is a one size fits all reason why men have affairs. i think the most common ones are 1) because they can't keep their cocks in their pants 2) because although they are happy, the marriage has gone a bit off the boil with kids, work etc and someone comes along and makes them feel young again, and 3) because they genuinely do not love their DWs anymore and its whats known i believe as an exit affair.

its often untrue that only unhappily married men have affairs.

Some times having an affair makes people fele insane so they do insane things.

They hurt the people they love the most and they burn up with guilt, sometimes slowly, for a long, long time.

One of the ways that they can dissipate that guilt is to have people believe that the spouse they left deserved it.

But what goes around, comes around.

Children grow up and eventually realise that one or both parents were full of shit.

I've been left after two long-term relationships, neither time for another woman. I'm just quite horrible to live with, I was informed

In fact my last boyfriend pointed out that he'd rather be alone than with me.

Are you picking the wrong men, perhaps, motherinferior? I'd put the next one through an exhaustive quiz.

The current one hasn't left yet but in all honesty I do think it's not them it's me. (That may, of course, be my own problem.)

Actually, maybe you are attracting stunningly and unusually honest men.

I hope your current boyfriend is a good match. At the moment, I'm on my own - it just seems simpler that way.

Sorry for minor thread hijack, btw!
But no, I don't always think it's another woman.

I think, though, where there's an apparently good relationship with loved children, it's difficult to explain a husband walking out except for the kind of madness that comes from an affair.