Advice for friend - 'D'H cheated :(

[wheresmywaist]

I don't post much but thought you might be able to offer some advice to my friend who's having a nightmare right now :(
She has been married 12 years and has 4 boys aged 2,5,8 & 10, her husband had an affair a couple of years ago but they got through it, then last year he became friendly with a woman at work, my friend recognised the warning signs from the previous affair but both maintained it was platonic. He left her 7 months ago and a couple of months ago the 'friend' left her husband, not surprisingly they are now together as a couple.

My friend is obviously devastated and struggling with this, she has done a few things out of desperation - faked a pregnancy, taken an overdose and is drinking heavily. Her husband (through guilt, I suspect) has left his wages going into her bank account but has now said his savings have run out and he can't afford to pay this so is going to the CSA. We looked online at the calculator and it is ridiculous the amount she will now receive!! She will go from £600 per week wages to £150 p/w from the CSA?!? While he lives it up with his new girlfriend and her kids! Surely that can't be right!

She hates his new girlfriend, obviously, and is now not letting him take the kids insisting that he see them in their own home for an hour. His girlfriend won't allow this as my friend rang her (remember, she was desperate to get him back) and told her they had slept together during one of the visits. He is now going to a solicitor to gain access properly - can my friend insist that the OW is not present when he has access?

I am really worried about her, I have tried to be supportive but she is so angry at the situation it is really difficult. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

So those figures apply to the relatively small amount of cases Gingerbread see and are not indicative of the UK figures as a whole.

Stop trying to push agenda. It's misleading and not helpful to the OP.

No, these figures are taken from the DWP's Family and Income Survey 2010.

That is a survey which is not carried out by Gingerbread, but by the Dept of Work and Pensions. It's a survey of lone parents plus low income couples who are parents. Gingerbread quote it because it's the biggest and most robust study of this group, it is precisely because it is a general survey and not just the cases they see, that it is useful.

But hey, you trash the DWP figures if you want. Because I'm the one with the agenda, hey?

BasilRathbone Seems Gingerbread have out of date information.

Over half (56 per cent) of families where there was a non-resident parent had an order or agreement for child support at the time of the study (see Table 15.1). Two-thirds (67 per cent) of these families had received some child maintenance payments. Where an order or agreement was in place, no payment had been received by one-third (33 per cent) of families (see Table 15.2).

research.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd5/rports2009-2010/rrep656.pdf

And by the way, maintenance is not the only way to 'pay a penny toward the upkeep of their children' - just sayin' :) I don't pay maintenance, neither does my ex and yet, miraculously, he's being paid for ...

Possibly ElusiveCamel. The figures you're quoting are 2009 -2010, the figures I saw were 2010. So maybe more up to date. I'd be surprised if Gingerbread quoted out of date figures, but it's possible.

Will find out next week sometime - I'll e-mail them and point to your figures, do you have a link so that I can send it to them? I'm sure they want to keep their website up to date.

£150 per week is still a decent amount of maintainance and he should not be vilified for paying this.

I'm quite sensible tbh and although I love my friend to bits, can see that she is quite money orientated - BUT, that is the life she has led, I am used to budgeting week to week but she has never had to worry. Trying to tell her it is actually not that bad is not really helping :(

She should get other benefits too with having the 4 boys, I'll go over tomorrow and look at the benefits calculators online with her. Thanks for the advice I do appreciate it x

Oh ffs!

So the figures regardlessly are only a proportion of the population that comes into contact with the DWP. So are not indicative of the UK as a whole.

Sorry Basil. I've no axe to grind with you but it annoys the hell out of me when stats get quoted. They're manipulated to suit.

As an NRP and a parent i honestly believe comments like " Most NRP's don't pay maintenance " are misleading and seriously harm the effort to get children the financial support they deserve.

Hold on, have just read your sentence again.

"Over half (56 per cent) of families where there was a non-resident parent had an order or agreement for child support at the time of the study (see Table 15.1). Two-thirds (67 per cent) of these families had received some child maintenance payments"

This doesn't take into account, the other 44% where no order or agreement for child support has been made. Of that 44%, some will be because the other partner is dead, some will be because the father has never been involved, (sperm donors etc.) and some will be because the parents have simply never bothered to go to court.

I imagine that that's why the figures don't marry up -because they're talking about different groups by the looks of it (all lone parents versus lone parents with maintenance orders).

But will enquire anyway.

The woman is only interested in money, not the wellbeing of her children, I wont be ignored, its not recent she should have grieved and got over it not held onto the bitterness.

In what way do statements like that harm that effort, sparks? How does it prevent NRP's from paying maintenance?

Surely everyone comes into contact with the DWP?

They deal with tax credits, NI and pensions. That's everyone isn't it? Everyone pays NI, whether they're working, self employed or claiming benefits. Who is this large amount of people who have no contact with the DWP?

Am not being facetious, that's a genuine question. I just assumed everyone has contact with the DWP, unless they are completely outside the system, like working without paying tax or something.

My dh has paid his ex wife every month without fail, direct debit, for twelve years. It's not through the CSA, was agreed in court, so court ordered. I don't know if these figures were taken into account but if dh missed payments exwife could apply to court to have his wages arrested. Dh would never do such a thing, I imagine most non resident parents wouldn't either as life and kids have to be paid for and wages are needed.

Op, your friend is obviously in a state of shock and anger and this is all a lot to take on for her. She has clearly been in turmoil for several years since the first affair so hopefully the healing anger will kick in soon. It's important though that she doesn't equate maintenance with contact. Kids are not pay per view. She has no right to dictate whom the kids see whilst in his care, just as he has no right to do the same to her.

Well yes Fabby, 7 months is ages ago, the statute on grieving for a relationship is six months, as everybody knows.

"Over half (56 per cent) of families where there was a non-resident parent had an order or agreement for child support at the time of the study (see Table 15.1). Two-thirds (67 per cent) of these families had received some child maintenance payments"

I'll probably regret pointing this out - but two thirds of 56% is 37%. That leaves 63% we don't know about.

As Basil says it's quite possible that actually the figures tally.

Doesn't help the OP though!

Yes, Fabby,because 7 months is plenty of time for her to have just got over it and be fine with everything. You do talk a load of offensive bollocks.

BasilRathbone the Gingerbread website says "Only two-fifths (38 per cent) of single parents receive maintenance from their child?s other parent" and the reference they give for that statistic is "Family and Children Survey 2008, Table 15.1. DWP, 2010" so although says 2010, the survey is from 2008. See www.gingerbread.org.uk/content.aspx?CategoryID=365 So, actually I am quoting from the same one and didn't realise it So not out of date, but not sure where they're getting that those figures from in fig 15.1

This doesn't take into account, the other 44% where no order or agreement for child support has been made. Of that 44%, some will be because the other partner is dead, some will be because the father has never been involved, (sperm donors etc.) and some will be because the parents have simply never bothered to go to court.
That is true, but that doesn't mean people without an order or agreement aren't paying maintenance and/or that children aren't being supported by both parents. I'd fall into that category, for example.

I really have no idea whether most parents don't pay maintenance when they should or not - was interested which is why I went to look at the source, but certainly it appears that where agreements have been made, the majority of people do receive payment.

I thought that's what it did mean EC? Because the DWP's sample is all lone parents, as opposed to lone parents with a maintenance order? Is that wrong?

DWP figures are skewed.

They are not figures taken from the population as a whole. They take no account of the proportionally high number of private arrangements for a start.

An NRP who refuses to pay for their child disgusts me. But a real shocker of a fact is that female NRP's are far less likely to pay than a male NRP as a percentage.

Which sort of proves my point.

What point is that sparks?

Do the studies take into consideration the fact that many NRPs may not make maintenance payments but are still supporting their XPs and DCs for example with childcare or "babysitting" arrangements? My XP does not pay me any maintenance for DS because I am lucky enough to have a well paid job so I've never asked him to. What's much more valuable to me is that he looks after DS 1 night a week and the fact that some of his wages go into a savings account for DS to access when he's 18.

Sorry OP - I know it's not helpful that the thread has been hijacked to discuss this issue, you sound like a good friend. Break ups are difficult - always, your friend will be ok, her children will not go without and she will learn to adjust. Just continue to be there for her and to listen.

It's not a study it's fact based on CSA cases. Female NRP's are far less likely to finically support their children than male NRP's.

My point is that figures and misconceptions can be manipulated at will.

Just to clarify Sparks I wasn't referring to your fact in particular, just all of the figures that have been quoted on this thread. I may have misused the word "studies".

I agree that statistics are very easily manipulated and this is why I was wondering if when Basil said that most NRPs pay no maintenance, whether consideration had been given to alternatives to "official maintenance" and private arrangements?

I am currently divorcing my h due to his adultery, he is living with the ow and my 3 dc (9, 4 and 6 months) see her every weekend. I spoke to a solicitor about stopping the ow seeing my kids but while they are in his care he can see anyone he likes as long as the children are safe and well cared for. With my dc i have explained the situation to them in a way they understand the 9 and 4 yo both know why daddy left. I have tried to be honest with them without insulting their dad. This has meant they both are happy to come and discuss how they are feeling about the split and do not feel like they are stuck in the middle. Also had the school councillor speak to them to make sure they are dealing with everything.

I think your friend should talk to her children and ask them how they are feeling as the situation can not be good for them and maybe it will help her see past the hurt and anger and enable her to move on.

Your friend is entitled to 25% of his income for maintenance she should also call tax credits and DWP both claims can be made over the phone.

:o @ being annoyed with statistics

Genius!

So sorry for your friend's agony, but she HAS to get a hold of her anger/reactivity. It is literally costing her £££££££££. Of course if she didn't let him see the kids he would pull that stunt.

When she starts ranting/drinking, are you able to tell her, I will mind the kids you go for a walk and WALK it off. Other good things: pound a pillow. Take the kids to the park and walk, walk walk round the railings.

Please tell her: reacting against H like this only confirms he did the right thing in getting away from the nutjob and seeking his true love OW.

ITS NOT FAIR! LIFE IS NOT FAIR! That is what she needs to work on accepting. She has been sh*t on and that is that. And, if he gets all 4 kids for a weekend 1. she will have a rest (and can walk another 20 miles of rage) and 2. the beautiful beautiful in that house will rapidly go!

He is currently in a fantasy that he hasn't left his kids, he has only left her. So let him live the fantasy. OW would have to be a SAINT to not allow the reality of HIS REAL LIFE not intrude into HER fantasy ('now I have a perfect man to look after meeeeeeeeeeeee').

Tell your friend to get smart, get even. Remember what they said in Monsters Inc: 'keep it together, Man'.