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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I think we are going to have to split because of our parenting differences

72 replies

WinkyWinkola · 19/01/2012 10:21

Dh and I are failing as parents. We cannot work as a team. We have both lost our temper with our children and shouted a lot. We shout at each other in front of the children. We are messing it all up. And I am 6 weeks pg with dc4. This is going to be garbled but I'm so upset.

Ds1 (6) is very defiant, hostile, uncooperative child prone to at least 3 rages every day. (I've been to the GP who says CAMBHS cannot help because his behaviour is perfect at school. Got an appointment with a private family therapist next week). Who knows - it could be because he feels conflict and upset between dh and I. It probably is. He's been like this since he was 2. I've posted many times about it.

Currently we are using the nice points and naughty points method. If ds1 gets to 100 points, he gets a prize - Hero Factory toy. He is sometimes responding to this. It bothers me though that every single thing like getting dressed, cleaning teeth, farting etc gets rewarded with a point. I think he should have to work a bit harder for his points. Dh does not and gives them out willy nilly to encourage him.

So, dh bought several presents/prizes (chosen by ds1 online) in readiness to distribute to ds1 when he gets 100 points (he gets 1 per 100 points). Ds1 wanted to see them this morning even though he knows what they are. I didn't think that was a good idea. I thought him knowing they were in the cellar should be enough for him and I know that soon he will try to open them and rage if I try to stop him. I said this to dh and he got in a strop. He got in a strop because he couldn't be Father Christmas again and said angrily to ds1, "No, you're not allowed to see the toys," and ds1 responded with a, "I hate you, daddy," which hacked off dh even more.

So, I went to the cellar. Got the box of prizes, dropped them on the floor in front of dh and ds1 and said there you are but don't blame me if the next thing he does is open them. I was pissed off and aggressive and I was very wrong but I'm so tired of dh playing Father Christmas and giving the children so muc stuff all the time. Dh told ds1 to ignore nasty mummy like he did when she is in a mood, just like he does and that horrible mummy is looking for an argument so just ignore her. That's what you do to horrible people.

Of course, the dcs (ds1 6, dd 4 and ds2 is too young) will do exactly what their dad asks them to do like getting dressed, cleaning teeth when they sense there is a dispute in the air between us. That gives dh great pleasure because it shows that he is the preferred and better parent. They adore him and they only want to be with him given the choice. It has always been that way ever since ds1 was 6 months old. He made his preferences very clear and dd is the same.

I am in effect without any 'power' - wrong word I know - when it comes to getting them to do stuff like getting dressed as they'll just say, "No. Want Daddy." They will just not do as I ask. Not without a fight and a strop and more often than not, a rage from ds1. Which of course makes me look crap and ineffectual. I just ask them to do stuff same as dh. But they won't cooperate. Dd is far more cooperative than ds1 but even she prefers to only do what dh asks her to do and ignores my requests.

Dh now says he will get them dressed in the mornings for school and I am not to contribute to this in any way to this part as I stress everyone out and upset everybody apparently.

I know I sound childish. I am childish and self pitying but I just feel like ultimately, I have no real place in this family. Yet it is me who ferries them about to their various play dates, karate and swimming. They only ever want their dad to go with them to parties. In fact, they only want their dad for anything really. So when I need to get them to do something, they just won't and again, I fail.

Aside from the practicalities, it really really hurts my feelings. I feel like they all put up with me. Dh makes it clear that he thinks unless I do what he thinks wrt parenting then I'm not doing a good job. In fact, he has said before that he thinks ds1 is the way he is because of me. I'm not sure how really but he has said that.

You know, after a rage about bedtime last night, ds1 came to me and asked if he could sleep in my bed. I said yes because he was clearly still upset and it seems comforts him. Probably because he feels closer to his father.

I don't know why it is like this but I feel so miserable and lost. I actually just want to disappear. I've arranged to see a marriage guidance lady next week and she also does family therapy and can recommend other family therapists if there is an overlap with marriage and family issues that we feel need to be very separate.

How do I handle this better? Please don't have a go at me as I know I'm doing a crap job but give me some advice. I don't see how it could get better really given that everyone seems entrenched in their 'positions'.

OP posts:
BuenTiempo · 19/01/2012 17:51

Your husband is emotionally abusing you and your children.

No

they are both abusing the children but shouting and screaming in front of them

iamabadger · 19/01/2012 17:53

As someone who grew up with a shouty, stressy mother the person I feel most sorry for in all this is your DC. Obviously it's hard to tell from a post who is at fault; to be honest it might not be either of your sole faults. The cries of "abuse! abuse! leave the bastard" are ridiculous and I would imagine not helpful. I didn't have a father to protect me from my mother, but if I did have a calm parent I can imagine I would have preferred them. The story about grabbing the box and flinging it to the floor sounded so familiar to me-that is basically a tantrum and f your children are witnessing that it's no wonder they play up for you. I honestly don't want to make you feel worse but seriously, blaming your husband for everything will not help you improve your parenting. If someone was shouting at my children I think I would be annoyed too whether they were my spouse or not. And as you say his parents used to shout and scream, probably knows exactly what it feels like to be the child in that situation-terrifying. I still hate loud noises and shouting, because I was subjected to my mother's volatile moods as a kid.

Blu · 19/01/2012 18:02

Winky - It's so hard to break these patterns when you are both locked into them. I can see exactly how you come to feel so powerless and undermined - and also, from your description of what happened, how the situation escalates oin the wrong way as a result of your reactions.

My advice would be not to churn this around much more in your own mind, but that you follow through your intention to see a couples counsellor - and if needs be a family therapist.
If you are open to changing - both of you - then you will hopefully find that the facilitation of a counsellor will enable you to communicate in ways that achive an outcome that you are all happier with.

Good luck.

Lizzabadger · 19/01/2012 18:03

You and your husband owe it to your children to bring them up in a calm environment. It's horrible growing up among constant shouting and erratic behaviour.

It bothers me that you talk about your son in such negative terms - he's not the problem here.

How about you and your husband attend a parenting course together?

I also think you would benefit from more time alone outside the home (Hobbies? Friends? Work?)

Lizzabadger · 19/01/2012 18:13

P. S. It may help to take the focus off your son's behaviour and monitor your own, instead.
P.P.S. A calm, predictable environment, daily one on one special time, giving social attention when your son is behaving "well" and distracting from/ ignoring any behaviours of his you don't want to see are likely to be much more successful than any points system.

AThingInYourLife · 19/01/2012 18:24

No, he is abusing his children and his wife by deliberately undermining his wife and telling his children that she is horrible and they must ignore her.

That is appalling, a truly shocking thing to do to children and it far worse than just shouting in front of them.

No wonder the eldest child is so traumatised when his father tells him to abuse his own mother.

Shocking, appalling, manipulative, spiteful, unjustifiable.

The fact that the OP believes she is a worse parent than a man who could do something like that is frightening.

AThingInYourLife · 19/01/2012 18:27

This man shouts too, he's not calm.

And even if he were, calm cruelty is nothing to be proud of.

singingprincess · 19/01/2012 18:34

Once one is out of the fog, it's easy to see. It is abuse, getting children to assist in undermining their own mother is absolutely classic abusive behaviour. Because abusive behaviour is all about control, and getting the kids to join in is very, very effective, and very, very damaging, and the experts would call it child abuse.

Has anyone actually suggested leaving?

There are always those on these threads that simply don't want to see it, or can't believe it or simply see the "A" word and hide behind their hands. Yes it's horrid, but we can't hide from this, it must be faced.

AThingInYourLife · 19/01/2012 18:39

I've suggested getting him to leave.

ErnesttheBavarian · 19/01/2012 19:00

If you split, your kids will still have 2 parents with 2 different styles and imo won't change the problem, but bring on lots of new ones.

I think the points system doesn't sound very good and will not succeed, it's too big a target and too vague. we have a points system, but much closer goal, every Saturday morning is the reward, 100 points could be forever away.

I would meet with dh in a neutral place and try to calmly talk about the situation and agree to certain things like no shouting in front of the kids, no pa talk over / to the kids etc. Try to get him to see how big a problem it is for you and how you need to work together to solve it.

Great that you're seeing a family therapist. Hope you don't have to wait long. I would again speak to GP. When my dc were tested for ADHD, we were asked if they played up in 2 of 3 settings (home/school/extracurricular activities outside of home or school) with the understanding that the could be a nightmare at home and at scouts but ok in school. Mine were (are) loopy in school too so wasn't an issue for us though. hth

MmeLindor. · 19/01/2012 19:04

Yes, agree with Ernest. Splitting up won't solve the issues. You need to work through this together for the sake of the kids.

You need to try and stay calm. He needs to stop blaming you.

piratecat · 19/01/2012 19:13

oh my god what a mess.

your dh sounds very childish saying 'mummy this' and 'mummy that' how undermining and depressing for you.

You must go and get counselling the pair of you

these kids are being used for point scoring. sorry but why the hell are you having another one. this surely can't be a behaviour pattern that's only just started?

your eldest is being indulged, and the whole present thing is not the way to go with regards to behaviour and general respect. the younger ones are only going to learn to manipulate situations with the points system like he is!!

singingprincess · 19/01/2012 19:25

Ok Athing, missed that.

Blaming. Behaving like a child, perceiving himself as some kind of victim? It's not good.

neuroticmumof3 · 19/01/2012 20:19

I don't think there's any hope of DC's behaviour changing while they're living in such a toxic environment. DH is being very damaging and undermining, if he doesn't like your behaviour he should deal with it in a better way. You need to find another way of reacting when you feel stressed out so you can stop shouting. The family therapy sounds good but will only work if both of you are prepared to change these negative patterns you are currently locked into. If he won't work with you then separation might be your only option.

corriefan · 19/01/2012 20:45

I thInk you should allow dh to do the day to day getting dressed etc, especially if you get stressed. Take the time to be the fun one, whIch needn't cost anything, play games at their level, that they won't struggle with, giving them choices. Take one at a time to stop dh stealing your thunder if necessary. Don't allow yourself to be pushed into this role of stressed nag. Leave the routines to dh, focus on the fun for now.

StewieGriffinsMom · 19/01/2012 20:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AThingInYourLife · 19/01/2012 20:46

OMG do not get into a popularity contest with a man who is not beneath getting your children to gang up on you and bully you. Shock

Eurostar · 19/01/2012 21:20

I think the person above who made a point about your DS raging as he is going through internal turmoil about "loving the bad guy" made an excellent point.

inatrance · 19/01/2012 21:28

I agree that the reason your kids are being like this is because you are constantly being undermined by your husband. He has no respect for you and is teaching your kids to disrespect you as well.

He should be supporting you and helping you if you are struggling with them, not sniping and being all bitchy about the kids preferring him. Ffs, it sounds like you have 4 kids already. He needs to grow up and stop playing power games.

No wonder you are feeling down. Sad

heebiejeebies · 19/01/2012 22:45

Have only skim read I'm afraid but I totally agree that you need to read the Lineup Bancroft book and get on the Emotional Abuse support thread

I would bet my socks that your sons behaviour is totally down to his dad undermining, distespectimg and abusing his mum at home. My dd showed signs of ADHD whilst I tolerated my relationship, now completely reversed

You will not be left with the same conflict and turmoil for the kids having 2 parenting styles if you seperate. Kids are very good at accepting different rules for different people/places like for school and home. It will be fine to have different boundaries and rules at mummy and daddys house. They can't cope with it in the same house

StayForNoone · 19/01/2012 23:37

Yes, my kids have come on in leaps and bounds since the separation. Both are doing amazingly in school. When I was still with stbxh my daughters school were trying to tell me she had noise and touch sensory issues and were even putting her in a 'quiet' room with a boy with high functioning autism. They have totally gone back on that now and she is going from strength to strength. I don't believe that two separate homes with separate parents always complicates things. In my experience I have only seen benefits for my children.

fuzzpig · 19/01/2012 23:43

Your children don't respect you because your husband doesn't.

Well done TheSkiingGardener - you have summed up the entire thread in a single sentence!

:(

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