Not quite sure what to think, would appreciate some input please.

[CharminglyOdd]

Thought about namechanging then decided I'm not ashamed, I haven't done anything wrong.

As briefly as possible: last night (after a couple of glasses of wine) DP turned on the TV to watch this film. I don't like violent gang films, but hey ho, it was his turn. When Dwayne Johnson came on screen he said, apropos of nothing, "Wow, he's a big [N word], isn't he. [Sees my face] Oh, sorry African American."

I was totally dumbfounded. He has never used racist language in front of me before (been together over two years), I know for certain he has never used it in front of his friends (not least because they're all international ex-students and some aren't white, but also because they are zero-tolerance as well). He grew up in a totally white (behind the iron curtain) area and I know he used his country's equivalent of those words back when they were part of everyday use, just like they were for some of our parents' and all of our grandparents' generations because we have discussed what it was like to grow up with so little outside influence.

I told him it wasn't acceptable, couldn't believe he had said it. He said he didn't see what the problem was, particularly as I couldn't find it offensive because I am white. At that point, I admit, I raised my voice. Asked him if he would say it to our friend X, who is black (he said no), asked him if he would think it okay if I started sprouting anti-Semitic hate (his country took part in the Holocaust, so I admit this was a low blow, but he really wasn't listening) in front of him because he's not Jewish so it 'doesn't matter' (no answer). I also pointed out that Dwayne Johnson is not African American (shrug). This last bit also bothers me because it sounds like those godawful people who think anyone with non-white skin can be divided into 'Asian' and 'Black' with nothing else.

I stopped shouting, told him calmly that I never wanted to hear him say it again and left it (other option was a blazing row that I didn't have the strength for - I was really tired). He sulked so much that, even when we went to bed, he didn't wish me goodnight. He was still quiet this morning.

My head keeps bouncing back between these thoughts:

• The biggest problem for him was being 'told what to do'. He has problems with his mother that stem from being controlled and being 'told' is a big trigger in him for getting cross - he hates it, regardless of whether you're trying to help, not actually telling (it's his perception) or even trying to stop him getting physically hurt. I suspect this was behind most of the stubborness, but...

• It doesn't make what he said acceptable. He has lived here for a decade. He knows it is wrong and admitted as much when he said he wouldn't tell our friend and that I 'couldn't be offended': he knows there was offence in that word.

• I have such a no-go attitude to this I don't know what to do. If he had apologised and said he wouldn't do it again then I think I could have chalked it up to a mistake. I didn't want to sleep next to him last night but was tired (I need my sleep - two weeks of exams start on Monday) that I wasn't losing sleep on the sofa for something he had done. He went to kiss me goodbye just now and I let him, but I felt a bit repulsed.

Can I have some sage advice please? If I tell any of this to his friends I think they will be horrified, mostly because he refused to own up to saying anything wrong (I think, like me, they would be willing to accept if he has apologised and said it was a mistake, not to do it again etc.).

Please can you be as gentle as possible - this has really thrown me and I'm feeling rubbish this morning anyway with bad period cramp, plus exam stress. I should be revising, not worrying about whether my partner is some kind of closet racist.

Sorry by 'his friends' I don't mean tattling, only that our closest friend were previously his friends and sometimes I refer to them as such - the two women are my closest friends atm as I moved to live with him.

He knew it would offend you but said it anyway. I think he was goading you into an arguement. Why though?

i used to live in russia, and let's just say they are a little behind the politically correct curve. well, alot behind.

I don't think he was goading me. He genuinely (from his face) was just making a remark, casually. That's what threw me most of all because although, as otchayaniye says, I knew people where he comes from still have integration/racism problems he has lived here long enough to know that kind of thing is just unacceptable.

I mean, it's just one of those things you don't say and it isn't like the word in his language is similar to it here (one of our South American friends told me once that she'd got into all sorts of trouble because their acceptable descriptive for a black person directly translates into the N-word, so she used it).

His refusal to even see there's a problem with it is what is making me most uncertain.

And, this is it, my friend was horrified when she found out what she'd actually said and apologised profusely. She was embarrassed even telling me what had happened (was part of a wider chat about language/translation). My partner just didn't care. He was cross that I cared. He expected me only to care if he said it in front of a black person and that just isn't how it works (with me, and I hope most normal people as well), nor how it should work.

If I bring it up again when he comes home he'll get unbelievably cross again. I just want something that I can say to him that will make it clear a) it was unacceptable b) I can't believe he thinks it's okay to say that, c) where the line is but d) without starting a row.

Anybody else please? Sorry to sound so desperate but he's come back now and we're just sitting in silence

Oh dear.
I know exactly what you're talking about, I'm afraid.
The casual remark, the surprise you are offended, because you're not black.
I'm trying to word my thoughts very carefully - probably failing! - I don't want to generalise, but there can be a very racist undercurrents in some countries.
Just think of the roma, to name the most obvious one.
Now much of this is ignorance. Most people have never met or spoken to person other than white.
This is no excuse though..It's a horrid attitude. he should know better.
Don't know how you can word it, sorry. I suspect for him this just isn't important and he cannot/does not want to comprehend why it is for you. Which does not help you.
Sorry!

Really bad grammar there!

It's okay, I know what you meant :) Thanks for taking the time to reply.

I don't think he'll say it again in front of me. I've come to the conclusion there's not much I can do atm. If he says it again then I think I'll be back asking for some serious emergency help. I'm not sure I could forgive a second time, having had yesterday's row.

Hmm. This is a really tough one. On the one hand I would say no one likes to be jumped on for something, even if they know it's wrong. Some people find it very hard to admit they were wrong and will sulk and get defensive rather than admit that they have some nasty traits such as racism. I think everyone has thoughts they're not proud of, and if he's been brought up in a racist atmosphere it's not surprising that it has seeped into his thinking. He knows it's wrong but it's part of his psychology if that makes sense. He probably hates to think you have seen him being so nasty too, and it may have affected his own view of himself.

That said, I do find it very hard to be around people who have closed-minded views. My FIL is an open racist and I know part of the reason is his upbringing. I tolerate him but I definitely couldn't go out with someone who had his views - I wouldn't have any respect for him.

So what you need to think about is - does your partner have genuinely racist views or is he just a product of his upbringing? Would it be possible for you to sit down and have a calm talk to him about it - just an open and frank discussion about what he really thinks and why he said that word? If you can't have a calm discussion, well that's a whole other problem because on the scale of things this is quite a minor problem and poor communication is much more difficult to overcome.

SGM A second time would be the end. No questions.

Bringing it up again will make him sulk, just because he hates rehashing any kind of argument (we don't often row, but when we do he wants us never to talk of it ever again, without working out why we had an argument... I odn't work that way). I also thinks he knows he was wrong and Cailin is right in that respect.

I do need to find out his reasoning though. Even if there was no reasoning and it was just bile. Ack.

You see, I think the fact that he'll sulk if you bring it up again is a much bigger problem than possible racism. I think a relationship can weather most things if both partners are willing to talk openly about things that bother them. If one partner clams up and sulks then that partner always gets their way - they decide not to talk, shut down, and the other partner has no option but to let it go, and seethe quietly. It's selfish and immature and I wouldn't put up with it. You're entitled to broach important problems like this with him and to expect him to talk to you.

Well in that case izzy DP just lost the argument I'd also like to point out that I only raised my voice after he said he didn't see a problem with using that word and that I shouldn't have a problem with it because I'm not black (I don't agree with this type of argument, e.g. saying a man can't be a feminist, although I know others do). I'm not proud of doing it but I was horrified at what he seemed to be saying and worried that he might hold racist beliefs (I once lived with a Neo-Nazi [student halls] and it took us all four months to find out what he believed... ever since then I don't doubt that some people can be good at hiding their true opinions).

To cut a very shouty (from him) fifteen minutes short. I started by saying I just wanted to talk, not have an argument and then asked him why he used it. He says he used it because it's okay to use that word in the context of gang-related films/music.

He says I can't take offence at him using that word, especially as he hardly ever swears (not actually true) so that means he has leeway when he then chooses to use other pejorative language

I chose to ask him why he used it because I was brought up to always immediately challenge something that indicated the person was expressing bigoted views. I did it because I believe it's the right thing to do, in just the same way that if a man started using misogynistic language in front of DP I would hope that he would do the same. Nothing in what he said at the time, or afterwards (until just now) led me to believe he was trying to fit in with the tone of the film.

Whether more white children use that phrase more often now or not, I will never be comfortable with white people using it. I have read articles both for and against black people using the term (in rap music and out of it), written by a mixture of people. I don't know where I stand on the issue and, TBH, it don't know whether I should have an opinion on it.

I'd also suggest that Yoko Ono has made a career out of being controversial and chose her words extremely carefully for maximum publicity.

Cailin I agree the sulking thing is potentially an issue. I don't know what to do about it and I have posted (a long time ago) under namechanges. TBH he concedes practically everything in everyday life and bends over backwards for me, so a) it's a bit of a shock to my system when he suddenly becomes rigid in his opinion and b) I do tend to let it slide. I am also quite stubborn and hate arguments. Usually I want to apologise, then think 'why should I' and it goes around in circles until we relax. I only posted here because I refused to apologise for this - I just think it's such a clear-cut issue in the sense that I don't think I should apologise for asking him why he was using that word.

Izzy, that's BS!

What a load of bollocks Izzy

You don't have to apologise for saying what offends you, OP. It would have offended me too. I'm a little surprised that people still think that you have to be a person of colour to have the right to feel offence.

It's not just this though is it? Sulking is a very controlling behaviour.

My (white) step brother posted a joke during the world cup (last year?): What do you call a South African footballer's girlfriend? Gollywag.

I went APESHIT at him. Publicly. We had a long argument back and forth where I blasted him for his ignorance and naivety, and he blasted me for telling him off. He completely had no idea how offensive - and what a weapon - the term gollywog had been. But he did agree while he claimed he's not racist because he has black friends (oh, right, OK!), he wouldn't say it in certain places in London (he's from a very small Northern town), nor would he say it front of my mixed race husband.

I think what it comes down to is a complete ignorance of white privilege, that thinking that just because black get to say the N word - white people should be able to too? Black people can say it BECAUSE it was use to keep them down, under the thumb of the white man. FFS!

A really casual, acceptable racism that pervades modern culture. My husband reckons that's much worse than say, the old school racism of my grandfather because (and I think DH is being quite generous here) he feels my GF can't help it - he was raised with those notions. Whereas this casual racism - more akin to ignorance - is a modern poison because people should know better.

And sometimes, men really just do not like being told off by women. Especially when it's to do with something that maybe, secretly, he's kind of mortified you're pulling him up about.

Fuck the argument that just because he was talking about gang films and hip hop, he should be able to say it. Fuck the argument that it's becoming more mainstream because of those cultural references. No white person will ever be able to say that word - and others like say, uncle Tom too! - because those words and terms were used by white people to enforce slavery and second class citizenship within the human race. Black people can say whatever the hell they like with regards to these words and phrases - that is THEIR privilege. One that white people do not get to have!

Thank you. I was trying to explain what betty has just said (far more eloquently than me) to DP. He claims that I am over-egging it and making a fuss out of nothing (this is when he began to shout). I kept my voice level and just kept repeating that I found it unacceptable and I didn't care whether black people use that word or not, IMO it is never acceptable for white people to use it.

I am unsure how much of his reaction is private mortification, language barrier or having a totally different (IMO wrong) approach to what it is and isn't okay to say. He is very angry that I would consider him racist in any way but I don't think he considers anything apart from overt racism, e.g. swearing to someone's face, deliberately offending or deliberately discriminating, as racism.

Everything SGM said. and Issy is talking total BS

Charming...he's wrong and you are right.

I tend to think, on reflection, it's not outright racism but rather - ignorance. He's not saying black people are n**rs because they're this and that. Rather, he's using a term so casually that has such awful, historical connotations of power and abuse attached to it.

But surely the litmus test - that both your DH and my step brother failed! - is that if they would never dare say it in the presence of their black friends, then it's not acceptable to say at all!

Exactly betty. I think that's partly why he got so cross... he knew/could understand that for that aspect of it I was 100% in the right, whatever he thought about the rest.

But he needs to understand why that ignorance is not acceptable either. Like, really needs to understand that. You might get all these little white kids in England suburbs mouthing hip hop lyrics in their bedrooms and with their friends, acting out gangsta life - but I highly doubt any one of them would actually, outside of that context, use anything like that language!

But also, it's experience, right? Before I met DH, I was proud to say I'd been brought up to believe in equality, that I knew of and was disgusted with racism. But I was ignorant - ignorant as hell! My DH has taught me a lot, so much I might never have learnt simply because I never had to live with/experience/understand the racism and ignorance he encounters - in London - in 2012!

I mean Jesus - it's still so awful and rife - but I understand my privilege so much better now, enough to know that even saying that makes me cringe a little because oh dear, a white girl has been in the vicinity of racist abuse NOT directed at her. Gah.

Don't even get me started on white, male privilege

So all in all, I hope you can get through to him. Most of the time, the litmus test works and so maybe that will resonate with him.