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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Not quite sure what to think, would appreciate some input please.

39 replies

CharminglyOdd · 14/01/2012 10:21

Thought about namechanging then decided I'm not ashamed, I haven't done anything wrong.

As briefly as possible: last night (after a couple of glasses of wine) DP turned on the TV to watch this film. I don't like violent gang films, but hey ho, it was his turn. When Dwayne Johnson came on screen he said, apropos of nothing, "Wow, he's a big [N word], isn't he. [Sees my face] Oh, sorry African American."

I was totally dumbfounded. He has never used racist language in front of me before (been together over two years), I know for certain he has never used it in front of his friends (not least because they're all international ex-students and some aren't white, but also because they are zero-tolerance as well). He grew up in a totally white (behind the iron curtain) area and I know he used his country's equivalent of those words back when they were part of everyday use, just like they were for some of our parents' and all of our grandparents' generations because we have discussed what it was like to grow up with so little outside influence.

I told him it wasn't acceptable, couldn't believe he had said it. He said he didn't see what the problem was, particularly as I couldn't find it offensive because I am white. At that point, I admit, I raised my voice. Asked him if he would say it to our friend X, who is black (he said no), asked him if he would think it okay if I started sprouting anti-Semitic hate (his country took part in the Holocaust, so I admit this was a low blow, but he really wasn't listening) in front of him because he's not Jewish so it 'doesn't matter' (no answer). I also pointed out that Dwayne Johnson is not African American (shrug). This last bit also bothers me because it sounds like those godawful people who think anyone with non-white skin can be divided into 'Asian' and 'Black' with nothing else.

I stopped shouting, told him calmly that I never wanted to hear him say it again and left it (other option was a blazing row that I didn't have the strength for - I was really tired). He sulked so much that, even when we went to bed, he didn't wish me goodnight. He was still quiet this morning.

My head keeps bouncing back between these thoughts:

  • The biggest problem for him was being 'told what to do'. He has problems with his mother that stem from being controlled and being 'told' is a big trigger in him for getting cross - he hates it, regardless of whether you're trying to help, not actually telling (it's his perception) or even trying to stop him getting physically hurt. I suspect this was behind most of the stubborness, but...
  • It doesn't make what he said acceptable. He has lived here for a decade. He knows it is wrong and admitted as much when he said he wouldn't tell our friend and that I 'couldn't be offended': he knows there was offence in that word.
  • I have such a no-go attitude to this I don't know what to do. If he had apologised and said he wouldn't do it again then I think I could have chalked it up to a mistake. I didn't want to sleep next to him last night but was tired (I need my sleep - two weeks of exams start on Monday) that I wasn't losing sleep on the sofa for something he had done. He went to kiss me goodbye just now and I let him, but I felt a bit repulsed.

Can I have some sage advice please? If I tell any of this to his friends I think they will be horrified, mostly because he refused to own up to saying anything wrong (I think, like me, they would be willing to accept if he has apologised and said it was a mistake, not to do it again etc.).

Please can you be as gentle as possible - this has really thrown me and I'm feeling rubbish this morning anyway with bad period cramp, plus exam stress. I should be revising, not worrying about whether my partner is some kind of closet racist.

OP posts:
HotDAMNlifeisgood · 14/01/2012 16:43

The biggest problem for him was being 'told what to do'. He has problems with his mother that stem from being controlled and being 'told' is a big trigger in him for getting cross - he hates it, regardless of whether you're trying to help, not actually telling (it's his perception)

Whoah. This^ is the bigger relationship issue, in my view. Sounds a whole lot like training you never to dare to disagree with him.

lettersandcommas · 14/01/2012 16:50

I tend to think, on reflection, it's not outright racism but rather - ignorance. He's not saying black people are n*rs because they're this and that. Rather, he's using a term so casually that has such awful, historical connotations of power and abuse attached to it. *

I compeletely agree with that.
I see it every day. I think I recognise the background.

Mind you, the sulking does not endear him to me either.

CharminglyOdd · 14/01/2012 18:24

betty I think the litmus test, when I first raised it, did give him pause. I also said it several times when I brought it up again this afternoon. I hope it will sink in - he is the sort to listen, not react, but mull things over privately later on. I certainly don't think he'll do it again.

He has so far this afternoon: cleaned the flat so much it's sparkling, accompanied me on a walk (when he prefers a run) and is out right now getting me fish & chips, having offered to take me out to dinner, so I think that's his way of apologising.

OP posts:
something2say · 14/01/2012 18:31

I was dating an American and we used to have this argument. Underneath I think he WAS racist, and he would try to explain why to me. We never resolved that one, but at least he understands that other countries don't use racist language like that.

What has struck me in your post OP is not just the racis, but the fact that if you discuss it, it will be over.

Why?

Also, what hope does he have of creating a workable relationship ongoing if you cannot talk about things like this?

likeatonneofbricks · 14/01/2012 20:57

it really is his background - by the sound of it he is a nice man (who apologises by trying to please you in actions rather than words). Behind the iron curtain, there was a lot of misogynist attitudes, as well as racism, so for a man there to openly admit some sort of defeat in an argument was 'not manly', and 'admitting he is stupid'. It's harder than you think to change ingrained believes. Also it was common there for mothers to control their sons (as children) a lot, but on the other hand same mothers told them never to let a woman OPENLY ruled over them. They tend to listen, as you say, privately, and if decent, take things on board, but you aer oushing him to be just accepting which goes completely against the grain of what he's been taught (not saying it's right obv.!)
On the subject of words - can anyone actually explain WHY would black people want to use the N word in rap or gang films (where there is no confrontation with the white) even if it's their prerogative, if they find it loaded with meaning? They seem to use it very casually, without any subcontext? I think this lack of knowledge/understanding can be genuinely confusing to young white people.

likeatonneofbricks · 14/01/2012 20:59

*ingrained beliefs

solidgoldbrass · 15/01/2012 09:08

So he 'normally bends over backwards to please you' and gets stubborn every now and again? Do you think you might be just a tiny bit controlling? No one is going to react well to being lectured like a naughty kid over what sounds like a moment's thoughtlessness rather than a decision to reveal a deep well of racism lurking within themselves.

CharminglyOdd · 15/01/2012 09:54

I don't think I am controlling. I'd love to explain why but I don't want to get rid of this nickname and it would involve talking about our personal situation more than I have. You're just going to have to take my word for it. He says if I'm happy, he's happy and whilst that looks really bad written down (i.e. like I make his life miserable otherwise) I think the same works in reverse... it saddens me to see him upset because I love him. The only exception to this is when he's sulking with me but that's possibly because I've never been much of a sulker and I find it very difficult behaviour to deal with.

At the time it didn't come across as a moment's thoughtlessness. Honestly he said it is such a normal, deadpan voice (i.e. without trying to be 'street', or whatever other crap people do when they use that language and think it's a joke) with a normal facial expression. That's why I was so shocked and acted how I did.

OP posts:
ViendoOvejas · 15/01/2012 12:32

You are very black and white about this.

If your boyfriend is Russian, you ought to know that the Russian word nyegr simply means black man, with no offense meant whatsoever.

Heleninahandcart · 15/01/2012 13:04

SGB whether OP is a bit controlling or not, her DP still make a racist remark.

I usually find its the when people I have know for sometime have a moment's thoughtlessness that the racism leaks out. That's when it is the most shocking.

Heleninahandcart · 15/01/2012 13:04

known

solidgoldbrass · 15/01/2012 15:12

Thing is, being as hugely self-righteous about it as the OP sounds is not going to make it better. Nagging away at someone as though you intend to make sure they never have an unacceptable thought ever again is counterproductive and controlling. You have made your point to him OP, now let it lie FFS.

CharminglyOdd · 15/01/2012 16:38

SGB I'm not entirely sure where you got that impression from, nor why you think I'm nagging, counter-productive and controlling. Needless to say, like any reasonable person, I haven't mentioned it again since our conversation yesterday when he had a bit of a shout and we cleared the air. Posting replies on here whilst trying to sort my head out does not equal raising it with him IRL.

I also don't think I was being self-righteous ... but that's probably where we'll have to agree to differ as it's a matter of perception.

likeaton I meant to say this morning, and forgot, your post seems to sum it up perfectly, thank you

Helena He is not Russian and the word in his language, as far as I know, doesn't translate directly.

OP posts:
Heleninahandcart · 15/01/2012 19:20

It wasn't me Grin

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