feeling sad and disrespected

[gottasmile]

Please can someone help me get some perspective? Background is that we have issues related to sex. DH not enough, me not wanting much, but it happens every week to 10 days. We go along fine for a couple of months then if he feels neglected, sulks big time (is icy cold with me).

He took the day off today and after I'd taken dd to nursery, we had lunch and he went upstairs to rest (as he does weekends after lunch). I followed him up there, we watched half of a film and at the same time I was looking up something on the laptop.

He was stroking my back. When it was almost time to pick up the dc, I leaned over to him and said "you don't want to go do you"? in a joking way, as I knew he wouldn't. He rolled over and got mad saying how only when it was time to go that I came close to him.

I've been upset ever since, but trying to make light of it and asking in a joking way to stop being mean. He told me he was in a bad mood and asked me to make him a tea. So I did, to try to get him to snap out of his mood.

So I've realised that the stroking of my back had an ulterior motive (I should have known by now). And he wanted sex. I just feel like he's only nice to me when we've had sex (one example is the next morning he brings me coffee in bed, normally wouldn't dream of it).

I'm feeling sad that i don't have a husband who would want to stroke my back to be nice. (I know this sounds pathetic!) When he sulks like this I feel like I'm his prostitute, just here to provide sex. I now don't think that he truly loves me, that anyone could have done. And he doesn't respect me or truly want to do nice things for me.

How on earth can I bring this relationship back to mutual respect (if there ever was some there in the first place)? He's really hard to talk to - he's ALWAYS right and doesn't listen to my point of view.

What can I say to him to make him understand how sad he makes me? (I've tried to tell him how he makes me feel but he doesn't acknowledge it, he just looks at it from his point of view, that he's not getting enough sex)

Thank you if you've read this far. I hope I've been clear, I find it so hard to express this. Any advice would be appreciated.

Not trying to push the problem on the op. But there are too many people here far to quick to jump on the Abusive bandwagon straight to Womens Aid.

Time for all to growup a little. A relationship involves two people, so apart from cases of very clear cut and extreme abuse, it is likely that both the people in the relationship need to take responsibility for how wrong it's going.

I suspect some of you just haven't been on the receiving end of sexual rejection from a loved one and you just don't have a handle on how devastating it can be.

Note, I am not saying that the man does have those feelings, but it is a possibility that should be explored not simply dismissed in over te top shriekings about toddlers and babygros. This man is the fatherof her children. Presumably the op doesn't want to putnthe whole relationship in the toilet without a little bit more exploration of why he is acting this way and whether or not there is anything she can do.

Time for all to growup a little. A relationship involves two people, so apart from cases of very clear cut and extreme abuse, it is likely that both the people in the relationship need to take responsibility for how wrong it's going.

absolutely spot on

But there are too many people here far to quick to jump on the Abusive bandwagon straight to Womens Aid.

Can we lose the idea that this man is being constantly rejected sexually ? the Op states very clearly that they have an active sex life and that she had sex with him just 2 NIGHTS AGO. He has then presumably sulked all day then stomped upstairs to watch tv leaving the Op downstairs and upset .

It IS abusive to sulk and punish someone because you wont let them fuck on you . Its not just my take , it is well documented with Womens Aid and many other agencys .

She also said that she was sorry she didnt have sex with him even though she didnt feel like it . Nobody should ever feel they have to have sex just to avoid a sulking session . As the Op has 2 small children , i can only imagine the atmosphere in the house when these days long sulks occur .

Just seen this thread and thank goodness for Diggs and SGB!

The OP has told us that her partner sulks and is 'icy' with her for a few days, laughs at her when she suggests they need counselling and tells her that it is 'her problem', criticises her if she spends a long time putting his children to bed, naps during the day (therefore absenting himself from family life) and going back to the original post, obviously wouldn't dream of picking his own children up from school.

The OP admits she's wondered in the past whether her partner is abusive.

Despite all this, she's had post after post inexplicably referring to her sexual 'rejection' of him, despite her saying early on that they have sex once a week.

OP you might find it more helpful to start a new thread and a few of us will look out for you? Put all the info on the OP and I think you might get a different response. I reckon you've got at least one sexist, entitled namechanger man on this thread incidentally, using what he thinks is a feminine username.....

The op has asked for perspective. Fair enough to not agree with it, but don't get the need to start a whole new thread so thatvonly those with the 'right' attitude will be encouraged to respond.

Sunds a bit blinkered in my view.

Yes, I had picked up on fact that op and partner have a sex life that manyof us would consider rather rampant. But to rely on that as 'evidence' that therefore this man is abusive is not helpful. He may find it very upsetting to be rejected on the day, even if he had sex the day before. That doesn't necessarily make him an abusive and dangerous man.

My perspective op is that you need to ask HIM what he is feeling and why he treats you this way. Only you can decide ifnyou can both move forward in a relationship of mutual love trust and respect. If he continues to sulk won't engage then younmay have your answer.

Or you can just start up a new thread, but make it clearbat then outset that you are invitingnonly one pointof view so I don't waste your time any further.

I guess the main reason some of the responses to this post annoy me so much is that there've been so many other threads where you have a man (or a woman) who are at the end of their tether over a partner who has refused sex for periods of months and years, and who've stuck it out and not been unfaithful etc... Then you have this self-entitled prat who goes and has the sulks when he doesn't get it every day.

Sorry but right at this moment, the guy has no redeeming features in my eyes and I sympathise with the op. OK that doesn't solve the problem and obviously communication will have to happen before it can be solved but really, if we don't tolerate emotional manipulation and sulks from children, why should be have to tolerate those things in adults?
Somebody please pinpoint exactly to me what the op has done wrong in this scenario?

I dont think anyone has suggested he is dangerous Spero , but his behaviours are abusive , whether he intends them to be so or not . I dont think it matters what the sulking is about , whether its sex , or being expected to put the bins out or the kids in bed ect , it works , it causes a horrible atmosphere and punishes the people around you when theyve done nothing wrong .

None of us would tolerate day long sulks from our young children ,let alone a grown man .

I can only assume that because its a man sulking about a sexual issue its socially acceptable . Had this post been about any other adult engaging in day long sulks , ie Ops mother for instance , she would have been encouraged to ignore her , there would have been comments about pathetic and childish . She would NOT have been encouraged to soothe her or chase after her , and she definateley wouldnt have been encouraged to give in and giver her what she wants . Nor would she be held responsible for her mothers sulks .

Ive had a rotton marriage , i have inadvertantly gone along with the idea that because he is a man , and my husband , he has certain rights that he can excersice if he likes , and better still , he will be supported in that by society . I dont agree with male priveledge and i dont go along with the idea that they are so stupid they cant help it .

I wouldnt tolerate sulking from my children , my mother , my freind , and certainly not from a partner regardless of what the issue is about .

Somebody please pinpoint exactly to me what the op has done wrong in this scenario?

She has challenged the idea of male priveledge Hell .

I haven't suggested op has done anything 'wrong'. I have simply challenged the assumption that the responsibility for a relationship heading south rests entirely with her partner.

If some one told me my partner was abusive and I should contact Women's Aid, would certainly assume that person was worried he was dangerous.

Sulking and bad behaviour from any member of our family is not great. But I am wary of exhortations thatit must not be 'tolerated' . Sometimes my daughter kicks off because sheis an arsey little madam and I put her straight. Sometimes she behaves badly because she is frightened or in pain. My job, because I love her, is to find out what is going on and help her if I can.

Threads like this always attract varied responses , its not necesarily a bad thing . Some of us have been the rejected , the sulker , or simply cannot understand the ops problem .

Something that hasnt been mentioned , and i think it should , is the effect of these stony silences and sulking on the children . Has anyone grown up with a parent who will sulk for days ? Its not nice , even very young children cant help but be aware of it , and if not checked a childs mind will interpret the situation as " Dad is upset with mum . Mum must have done something wrong - therefore mum is the bad guy " .

Don't you think that suggesting counselling was the OP's attempt to take responsibility for resolving the problems in the relationship Spero? But he laughed at her and said the problems were all hers.

I think the problem here is the OP taking too much responsibility, not too little, for putting the kids to bed, for picking them up from school when their father is available - and for her husband's mood swings.

Diggs that's a good point about substituting another adult for this guy. No question, the op would be told not to be walked over, stand up for herself etc. If it's really the case that society has more tolerance for a man complaining about not getting what he perceives is his right especially when he gets plenty, that's a really worrying development in my eyes.

Also I think there's a lot of tolerance of this stuff from many women, which just reinforces behaviour like his.

Sulking and bad behaviour from any member of our family is not great. But I am wary of exhortations thatit must not be 'tolerated' . Sometimes my daughter kicks off because sheis an arsey little madam and I put her straight. Sometimes she behaves badly because she is frightened or in pain. My job, because I love her, is to find out what is going on and help her if I can.

Presumably your daughter is a child . Should she behave like that when she is a grown woman it wouldnt be acceptable , for any reason .

Spero , if your daughter told you that her husband treats her this way , sulks when he doesnt get sex , laughs at her when she suggests counselling , complains that he wants more attention , complains because she takes to long putting HIS children to bed , what would you say ?

Would you be sympathetic if your daughter was being pressurised into sex she did not want ?

Diggs - I hope my love for my daughter and my willingness to communicate with her will extend well into her adult years. I am just wary of this attitude that ' I would not put up with this behaviour!' er, why not try to at least talk to the person behaving badly to get their perspective? If they cantnor won't engage, then it is your choice what you continue to invest in a relationship.

I agree that if op tolerates bad behaviour that does make her part of the problem. That does not mean her partner is allowed to treat her badly but rather that we all have to step up and take responsibility for our decisions. Doing nothing is a decision in itself.

If my daughter was being pressured intonsex she did not want I would require a bit more information before I packed up her stuff and drove her to a refuge.
My ex clearly did not want to have sex with me and no doubt found my frequent tears and sulking intolerable pressure. But I loved him and I wanted to express my love for him physically. There is nothing 'wrong' with that.

What was 'wrong' was that we had the emotional maturity of a sprout and could not talk to one another and made each other very unhappy.

So op, don't make the same mistakes I did. Talk to him. Explain why you are unhappy. Suggest alternatives. If he can't or won't talk to you then you should probably end the relationship as I do not think these kind of situations magically resolve themselves or get better over time.

I am just wary of this attitude that ' I would not put up with this behaviour!' er, why not try to at least talk to the person behaving badly to get their perspective?

She has tried Spero , most people do .

I wasnt referring to the op there, I know she has tried. I was commenting on what appears to be the view of some that if adults in their lives behaved badly, that's it, out they go. I hoped I have misinterpreted what people are saying because that does seem an odd attitude.

I don't think generally people behave badly because they are evil twats but rather because they are unhappy.and if you love them, or loved them once, or had children with them, probably it is worth trying to sort things out.

So ok, he wont talk to op, he laughs about it. Is hen automatically an unfeeling bastard or can you accept he might be embarrassed? Upset? Emotionally a bit blocked off? It's not always a woman's aid issue, that is all i am saying. But only the op can know because we have never met him.

I think you might have misinterpretated a little Spero , i think all of us are capable of behaving badly occasionally , most of us understand that sometimes others may have worrys or issues that may occasionally cause them to act badly , usually this is short term and we can forgive the odd blow up / sulk / argument ect because its also mixed up in all the good stuff about that person . Also , they usually realise and are sorry .

When you find yourself constantly on the receiving end of bad behaviour , when its long term , when you are trying to explain the same thing again and again , its too much. I would never disregard a person in my life due to a simple wobble , i would explain to them clearly that i dont like that particular behaviour and why . I would expect them to stop . If they felt entitled to continue to treat me badly , then yes , i wouldnt hesitate in saying goodbye or limiting the exposure . It would really not be my responsibility to find out why someone is treating me badly .

Ops partner could well be upset , he could also be a bit blocked off , but really , thats not her concern , her concern is to be treated with the respect she deserves . She is presenting the issue clearly to her husband ie " I do not like it when you sulk at me re sex , it makes me feel upset and its serious enough for me to be suggesting counselling ".

His response to laugh , ignore , and continue is not apropriate . Whether he is ignorant or abusive only the Op knows , but it is obvious that she is not getting the care or respect she deserves .

We are going to have to agree to disagree. You say it is not her concern WHY her partner acts the way he does, her only concern is that she is treated with respect? Surely the whole point of any relationship worth a damn is that both people in it are profoundly interested in each other and what makes each other happy or sad.

If she really isn't interested in why he is like he is, I guess the relationship has run it's course.

Thats not what i meant Spero .

I personally dont think she should invest all her energy trying to make him listen or trying to get him to stop sulking , or trying to find out why he does it , because there is NOTHING that he can say to justify his behaviour and anything he does say is likeley to be attempts to minimize his actions .

Maybe he is miserable , maybe he is resentfull , maybe hes having a rotton time at work ect . But really , does it matter ? Because at the end of all the discussions and attempts to reason you are still left with someoone who thinks its ok to treat you badly . Id suggest to the Op less pondering on why and more pondering on how its going to be dealt with from now on .

I am actually wondering why he has to lie down after lunch? Does he do that every weekend and do you mind that? Just asking because it would very much annoy me.
And also, where did he not want to go? To do the school pick up?

Thank you to everyone who has tried to understand my post and given insightful, helpful thoughts. I really do appreciate it and you've given me loads to think about. Diggs your words have touched me so much.

I want to understand my dh and want to turn this relaationship around. I'm not giving up on it just like that. I do love my dh and feel that he loves me. Smilesthroughgrittedteeth, the book you mention sounds interesting and I have a feeling that dh does indeed express his love through sex.

I've actually had a good talk to him today (a lot of my talk came from this thread) and he actually listened to me which is a first (even though I had to state my points 3 times before it sunk in). We have a lot of better communicating to do and we have to stop a horrible cycle we've got going. We have a lot of work to do and I have a lot of reading to do.

Thank you so much for all the support, I have read everything and will read it all again.

I think he may feel unloved, like mentioned above. Hence the icyness? Not nice to react like that though.

If a woman is stressed and tired, sex may seem like another chore instead of something fun.

If you then feel that sex is something you do TO him and FOR him, rather than somethingyou BOTH want, it is hard to justify why you should give it to him. He may not know you view sex as something you think just benefits him, so he may feel rejected and frustrated?

What's bothering me is that he can never just rub my back or do something nice just because he loves me. I always realise after he did a nice thing that it was because he wanted sex. (and why haven't i learnt by now?)
That's not necessarily true though. One can touch a partner to be 'nice' without having a motive and then end up desiring sex because you're touching them. He may not have started out the back rubbing with ulterior motives at all.

It's good you've had a talk today. Hopefully it'll lead to some more communication and lead to a resolution in the future :) I don't think that he thinks you're his prostitute. Do think though that you're both in a vicious circle and sound entrenched in your positions and view of the other.

I hope that whatever happens you end up in a better place. If he loves you, he will want to work with you to sort it out. He may not have the emotional toolkit right now, so get whatever help you can, there should be no shame or stigma about that at all. When I am prime minister I will make it compulsory to have both pre and post nuptial counselling, paid for by the state.