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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

WWYD?? DC2 being forbidden to make own choices by DF.

64 replies

joruth · 07/01/2012 12:04

Asked DH to leave 2.5 months ago after years of emotional and verbal occasionally physical abuse to me and 4 DCs (all primary school age). His controlling and angry behaviour escalated so have reduced contact to Saturdays only currently (informally with his consent). DCs love and hate him in equal measure.

Part of abuse to DCs has involved his angry outbursts and control around choices they make including (and especially) instruments that they are learning. Daughters have "managed him" but son has fewer skills in this way and is also picked on much more. In the end DS's first choice instrument got so involved in the shouting and his emotions that he has not been able to contemplate touching it even now that his father is out of the house.

DS has now voluntarily chosen a different instrument, one that his father does not play, through school and with the music teacher's approval and support. I have told him it is his choice and that we will support him but that he knows that he will have to practise regularly etc etc.

Mentioned this to DH before Christmas, he said "isn't a "proper" instrument" "very limiting" he thinks it's a bad choice...I left the discussion open.

Today (DC3's birthday) special pancake breakfast with Dh and GPs present before he takes them out for his regular contact. DCs talking about what they are doing and DC1 mentions the alternative instrument: cue fireworks for 40 minutes in front of GPs, me DCs and all. No holding back, lots of personal stuff and accusations about my character, wifely duties etc. He has forbidden DS to play the instrument and I am not to make decisions that are his to make. I did not (apparently) talk to him first and Dc IS NOT ALLOWED to give up his first instrument...never mind whether he is actually able to play it or not.

He is their parent, he has parental responsibility, BUT he is damaging them.....WWYD?????? I can't protect my darling children, I don't know what to do.

OP posts:
Thumbwitch · 07/01/2012 13:59

I also wouldn't be financially supporting him, what on earth are you doing that for still? Please get that sorted asap - if he can't afford to live elsewhere then he should go back to his parents (if they'll have him) or make his own arrangements!

I'm pretty sure, as you have the DC resident with you, that you are under no obligation to be financially supporting him...

Hullygully · 07/01/2012 14:05

Wow.

Can I just say HE IS SO MAD.

I have huge admiration for you, it must be astonishingly hard to support 4 dc and continue to fight that raving loon.

Do keep remembering he is mad and don't let him infect you and the dc.

Big hugs of support.

Original poster
joruth · 07/01/2012 14:09

Thanks all of you

OP posts:
Thumbwitch · 07/01/2012 14:10

You're welcome - I do hope you can resolve it, definitely talk to the school first and then the solicitor and see what can be done.
So sorry you're going through all this. x

TheAvocadoOfWisdom · 07/01/2012 14:20

That's a bit loony tbh. Was he trying to breed a string quartet or something? Playing the trombone isn't like going bungee jumping, so I can't imagine that school or anyone else would need your DH's consent. I don't understand how anyone could become good at an instrument they hated so he must see he's shooting himself in the foot, even if he can't admit it. I do hope you get things resolved. And good luck to your DS1 with the trombone - fab instrument.

busybusybust · 07/01/2012 14:26

Firstly, OP, sympathies for your continued hassles with the arse.

As regards instruments: the phrase 'you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink' springs to mind! The man is totally delusional is he really thinks that your DC is going to become proficient on the DB, when he shakes at the sight of it!!!! Tosser! It is absolutely pointless any child (and adult too) learning an instrument they don't like!)

But I do agree with you about 'music being food for the soul' it SO is! And you and your kids need a bit of 'food for the soul' right now. So, DS has chosen the trombone. Well good. A respectable member of the brasswind section of any orchestra! But, now I think about it - it really is more flexible than a DB!!!!! ( have a vision of him right now doing a up and down the scale 'fart' to his father!)

But, obviously, the reason he (the tosser) threw he tantrum (horrible though it was for DCs, good that he did it in front of GPs) is because he is realising that he IS LOSING CONTROL - of you, of the DCs.

I have to say that you must be an amazing Mum if the DC can already see what a twat he is! Are they all frightened of him, or just the 2 elder ones?

Agree with the others, the contact needs to be court formalised - that way, if he doesn't stop the horrible, frightening 'control' stuff with the DC, you will be able to stop contact totally.

Original poster
joruth · 07/01/2012 14:31

2 oldest have confidence that although they want a father they don't want him THIS way, don't want him back at all.
3rd is SAD, confused and doesn't understand
4th Is just missing her daddy. Hates him not being here. She has been hugely protected by the other 3 and not yet iof an age to push dad's buttons (ie have own opinions) it will come.

the ONLY good thing about all this is that he shows what he is really like and it only confirms that he SHOULD be out

OP posts:
mummytime · 07/01/2012 15:34

I do not see that the school would have any problem with ignoring their fathers wishes/interferrence. Especially as he will already be on their records given the fact he was referred to SS by the school's own safe-guarding proceedures. In fact given what you have said about your son's reaction to instruments, I believe that your children should still be being monitored by the person in control of safe guarding.
Please see a solicitor and restrict heavily his contact with the children, it seems to be doing them far more harm than good.

FabbyChic · 07/01/2012 15:40

This man talks to you and your children like shit and you financially support him? why?

Remove that financial support take care of you and the children that is your only responsibility.

He is a grown man, he can make his own money.

Withdraw the financial support he is a nasty evil man who should be made to be an adult and stand on his own two feet.

Eglu · 07/01/2012 16:29

Joruth I missed from your OP how young the DC were. When you have said that two of your DC are capable of standing up to their Father I assumed you were talking about teenagers. They are far too young to have to do that.

The only contact they should be having with him is supervised contact in a contact centre. Please see a solicitor asap.

inatrance · 07/01/2012 17:59

I agree with getting yourself to a solicitor pronto. Why are you financially supporting him? You really need to stop that straight away, he is abusive towards you, yet you pay for him and let him tell you what to do? Angry for you OP.

Sod that for a game of soldiers, you have done so well to get away from him, be proud of yourself for getting out. Now you just need to extract yourself completely and get super tough.

Tell him (preferably through a solicitor) that due to his abuse towards you and your children you are no longer wiling to see him directly and that you will be applying for supervised contact. Tell him that if he approaches you again you will call the police. You need to be really hard now to get through to him.

Your kids need you to protect them from him, it's unfair to expect them to do it themselves. You've done an amazing thing getting out, now you need to let him know that he can no longer control you.

Original poster
joruth · 07/01/2012 23:20

In honesty although i asked him to leave at the end of October i have not really managed to do much else, Always fire-fighting, and being surprised that this man who I have been trying to have a relationship with for the last 14 years is really like this.

I suffer from "nice person syndrome"

I try to be reasonable with this most unreasonable of men,
I try to do the "right" thing as advised by all the info on divorce and keep contact going for the DCs (which is of course entirely wrong for this situation)
I am tied in financially as we have a "one account" mortgage/current account and cannot afford the family home/daily expenses and was working round to trying to keep him on-side to sell.

I am a supposedly intelligent woman, and yet I feel like a worthless piece of junk. I care for the DCs the house, work for a pittance at a poorly paid job because I gave up a well paid and well respected career to further his and look after the DCs. I am beyond the edge of reason, hope and resources. Poor and getting poorer. And I am not me, have not been for so long I don't really know what i can do or who i am now.

Grateful for all your most wonderful replies, help to see the wood for the trees and encouragement.

OP posts:
cestlavielife · 07/01/2012 23:24

did you have a named person at ss incontact cwith you?
i would send a short email to ss and cc solicitor highlighting this issue and pointing out that contact isnt working out - because he is unable to control himself.
that because of this you intend to go down the legal route to clarify everything. if dc expressing fear of him then cut contact for now or have only supervised eg by the gps

if married best way is file for divorce and have contact sorted as part of the divorce.

keep very careful records from now especailly any emails - try and keep discussions by email (in which you remain v calm and factual) so that you ahve evidence of his outbursts.
his parents may not want to spill onhim tho if it came to it? eg will blame the separation?
but fact DC reported to SS counts for something - speak to them again.

is there record of the "years of emotional and verbal occasionally physical abuse to me and 4 DCs " eg your reports to GP/SS/solicitor or evidence in emails /police reports?

it is early days and you finding your way - you ahve tried the informal route and it isnt working. so go down teh legal route.

yes it may make him madder but that will be his problem.

(or he may see he has to calm down...)

cestlavielife · 07/01/2012 23:26

x posted -the sooner you can start sorting out financial and contact issues the better - file for divorce on his unreasobale behaviour. if there is record of the dv then you can argue agaisnt trying mediation first

cestlavielife · 07/01/2012 23:27

and as as said be ready to call police on him if he kicks off...

Original poster
joruth · 07/01/2012 23:37

Job list

  1. stop contact
  2. talk to school
  3. talk to SS (yes have a name)
  4. talk to solicitor
  5. Maybe CAB about finances
  6. light blue touch paper 7)retire to safe distance for remainder of life (I hope)

did I miss anything??

OP posts:
MatureUniStudent · 07/01/2012 23:42

Joruth - I walked in your shoes and now kiss the ground with joy that the ex has nothing more to do with the children. No.4 misses his dad as he too never disagreed (too young like your no.4). The others remember his behaviour and tell me that they dont miss him.

On a practical note - dependant on the trombone player's age - are his front teeth through? trombone is v hard to play when young (so good on him wanting to do it!) and if you had to wait a six months or a year until you got the ex sorted out, then it wouldn't be the end of the world. Also, re your ex's view, playing trombone means you tend to find playing other brass instruments difficult - however as he is a bass player, I am not sure he would make that connection. And really none of it matters except for encouraging your little trombone player to do as HE wishes.

If I can urge you, as one three years on from you, trust your instincts and fight like a tiger to ensure your children have one thing. A peaceful childhood. I watch with pride mine who have blossomed away from the minefield that was their father. Good luck.

solidgoldbrass · 08/01/2012 01:07

Agree with everyone else: get the law working for you, stop contact with this man, tell the school and everyone else that because of his abuse he is being removed from the picture as much as possible and that his opinions are irrelevant. Because they are. He's talking through his arse. And he doesn't matter.

Thumbwitch · 08/01/2012 08:40

Small revision to your list:

  1. see solicitor
  2. see school

Then depending on what your solicitor says you can do the rest. The solicitor is paramount to ensure you do everything legally and tightly; the school need to be informed asap that the children's father is being abusive to them and that they should go through you for all decisions etc.

Love and strength to you - the clearer it all becomes, the more you'll find your inner tigress and start to fight back against the waves of abuse he has subjected you all to.

Original poster
joruth · 08/01/2012 09:24
Thanks
OP posts:
lifechanger · 08/01/2012 10:11

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

cestlavielife · 08/01/2012 14:26

yes good list - stopping contact and talking to solicitor and SS to report what has been going on need to happen at the same time so it is recorded that the stopping contact is well and truly linked to your concerns about DCs' wellbeing and not on a whim.

i used to email solicitor and social worker after each incident so there was a good record - small incidents on their own but it built up and when there was the bigger one it all added up... and in fact i should have stopped contact much sooner.

Original poster
joruth · 13/01/2012 14:04

So, just to say thanks and that he's been arrested.

best wishes to you all.

OP posts:
ItsMeAndMyPuppyNow · 13/01/2012 14:11

arrested?

Bloody hell. I don't know what happened, but well done: sounds like you must have taken some serious action, and it must not have been easy.

mistlethrush · 13/01/2012 14:24

TBH, any of the string instruments are probably fine to take up if you want to take up the double bass - DH plays and has had the sum total of 30mins tuition from his aunt - although he played cello already. And of course trombone is a proper instrument - and good on DS for opting for it (My ds has quite a large list of options (not that we've told him) and trombone isn't on it - but French horn is... although I would prefer violin and piano due to size and noise!!)

I hope that the arrest will help you get some things sorted out.