What is a husband's role to you?

[TheEpilator]

DH and I are on the verge of splitting up, certainly temporarily if not for good. He says he cannot give me what I want from a relationship, which I have told him is:

-to feel loved and equal
-to know that I am special to my husband, not just childcare/cook/cleaner, but a wife/friend/partner to him
-support to enable me to succeed as a person in my own right (both emotional and physical help)

• to feel that spending time with me isn't a chore to be fitted in, but actually something important and, dare I say it, pleasant!

that's it really - am I asking too much? I should add that he is a bit ASD and finds all talk of emotions hard work, so I know I'm banging my head against a wall really.

I just need to know if my expectations for a marriage in general are unreasonable, regardless of his personal limitations? If we split up am I likely to find someone else to whom this description of marriage isn't a totally alien concept?

Well, no, not really. If it was "can you fix my bike lights on Saturday morning?" DH says no. I say "why not?" He says "because I'm doing X on the new house". Its a shame I can't use my bike in the dark but its better that we crack on with the house. Its not a knock-back per se. Have you tried saying what kind of support you need? Money, DH do DC baths, cook twice per week etc? FWIW my DH would respond quite badly to a general request for support and start asking me what was wrong, what had he done now and did I need some money or something silly like that.

Also, if you ask for something and he says no, ask him why - ask him what does it cost him and tell him the benefits of doing it. Don't let him give you a vague answer then you don't have to guess how he feels.

I'm not critising you here - I'm just asking if you are being specific. I think you should give him a try with really specific requests before you decide he doesn't like you or care about you.

Think back to when you first met him.
What did you like about him, what did he do to make you feel special. Has he changed since the DCs arrived? How has your relationship changed?
Perhaps the bike bit is a little clumsy but it does show that he is thinking of you.
Whether AS is possible or a red herring for some other issues, making lists for yourself might help and coming up with specific ideas and perhaps doing some of them yourself or suggesting them and seeing how he responds.
A date night is obvious - anything from full-blown night on the town to simply eating without the kids and sitting down in the living room together.
Suggest you would like a lie-in and a cup of tea one morning a week and what could you do for him?
Perhaps give him a specific task or two to taken on in the house?
What are the concrete things you want him to support you and the family in this year, what sort of thing does he want to do?
If he doesn't respond then either he can't or won't or is simply taking you for granted and then again you need to give him an ultimatum, set some boundaries and make your decision from there.

Ok Art good point.

As an example I have injured myself and can't walk on very swollen ankle. I ask if he can get me a bowl of warm water to try and soothe it. He says no, sorry he's on the computer (not work, just browsing the internet), he'll do it in a while. I wait a while and still nothing. I prompt and again I get "in a bit". I get up and get it myself, limping back into the room and spilling it on myself and the floor. He tuts and rolls his eyes, as I get back to my chair says "here let me help you" and puts down laptop.

A few days later he has a sore shoulder and asks for a massage. My usual response would be yes, of course. But now, really, why should I bother? He can't do for me what I would automatically do for him, so where's the balance? That's how its got to this point, as I have tried to show love and affection but have now given up and met him on his level, which is a pretty miserable place to be!

strewel its difficult to say how things have changed over the years, as we've changed our circumstances quite regularly so we've both adapted in our different ways to living in other places, new jobs, being away for lengths of time etc.

I always assumed that once things settled down that life would be better, but it seems the opposite may be true!

Oh that would make me seethe :(

Have you considered Relate or similar because I think your DH is selfish and needs to hear it and maybe even what he stands to lose but in a therapuetic setting. He will probably have some gripes about you too but a gripe session on this scale can easily get out of hand in the home.

I've not been married that long to my DH so we still have the energy / interest to argue constructively (most of the time) or just bribe or mock the other into doing stuff. In 10 or 20 years time though if things are settling into patterns that I/we don't like, I will definately get outside help involved. I think sometimes it really needs an outside party to facilitate the communication and move things forward.

The bowl of water thing isn't anything to do with ASD. AS might explain him not realising you needed the water in the first place, but once you asked for it his decision to prioritise fanning about on the laptop was him being a selfish lazy arse, not a symptom of a disability.

Needing a prompt to do something is one thing, ignoring your partner's very reasonable requests is another.

Likewise if he knows when your children need comforting, he knows when you do to. He is CHOOSING not to give you comfort.

Fanning? Fannying!

Art we did try Relate but it was there that he was told he ought to look into ASD! The counsellor seemed (as much as she was able to show) on my side and totally understood why I was so upset about things we talked about. He said he wouldn't want to go on another family holiday (our first in 10 years this year!) because he couldn't see what was in it for him, to which she made a face and said "what about because your children will enjoy it? And your wife needs a change of scenery and a break?" and he replied "I'd rather have something concrete for my money, I don't see the point of holidays".

Maybe we should try and find someone else who can help, but I don't know if I've got the energy to try any more.

TonyDanza(swoon!) thank you, exactly. Even when I am specific it doesn't help as he doesn't prioritise me over himself. His fave saying to the DCs is "after me, you come first" and when making tea he jokes "mine's on the right, because I'm always right". Its all light hearted enough, but is so true.

I'm sorry - I'm really out of my depth here. Has he always been this bad? Its quite extreme. Sorry epilator .

Thanks for getting this far with me Art, feel free to bow out gracefully - I'm out of my depth too! Think maybe specialised counselling may be required.

Okay - but sorry for being all "La la la - you just need to be more specific" . I think you are right to look for a specialised counsellor and go through the issues because even if you decide not to stay together (sorry to be gloomy) you will need a good basis for communication for your ongoing relationship as co-parents. I really hope you can move forward with him because I can tell you care a lot even though you are frustrated (understandably).

You're absolutely right not to presume he has ASD without a diagnosis. It could be nothing but being a crap husband, as you say, or it could be some other disorder with similar or overlapping symptoms.

How did he react when the counsellor suggested it? Would he consider going to a specialist for diagnosis, if his marriage depended on it? Not that it would necessarily save things, but it would surely make a difference to you to know whether he doesn't understand these things because he doesn't care enough, or because he simply can't understand them.

Also, what was he like when you first got married? Has it always been like this, or just developed this way recently?

Apparently he has booked in to see another counsellor, although not specifically someone specialising in ASD, so at least he is open to the idea that he needs to sort some things out. Official diagnosis could lose him his job (can't go into detail in case I 'out' him), so I understand why he doesn't want that.

I suppose some form of counselling can only help.

I think he's got worse over time (as he's aged, or we've had more DCs so I've needed him more?). He's always had this blank stare when we argue that drives me insane and has always had his obsessions, but has been easy enough to reign in with some reasoning, but its always been hard work getting him to engage with me & DCs.

Its come to a head several times before but I've never felt able to survive without him, but then I'll read on here about women leaving unhappy relationships and doing really well and I don't want to live with this, wasting my love on someone who can't give it back in any meaningful way.

Did you really go to your husband with a shopping list of emotional 'I wants' with no mention of what he wants from the relationship?

There isn't a man alive who will react how you desire. Blokes just aren't like that! The points are not unreasonable at all, but men simply do not engage like this.

Sounds like my Ex, right down to the blank stare. I used to wonder if he was on the spectrum.

Specific counselling might help you both cope with this but if he is unwilling to change-because why should he in his view he's perfect!- then it might be difficult.

Yes, thanks Sprouting, it was in the context of big discussions about our future, where I told him that I wasn't happy with our relationship and also questioned him about what he expected from our marriage. It wasn't like I sprung a list on him and said "do this or you're out", it was in response to the blank stare and the shrug of shoulders, and the line "I don't know what you want from me".

I thought that if I spelled out what 'a husband' means in my mind that it would clarify things for him, but as many have said this was too vague, so it should have read more along the lines of:

• I would like you to ask me how my day was after you have told me all about yours and actually look like you're listening and interested.

• I would like you to take an interest in my job search and help me to identify my skills so I feel that I am capable (I helped him with his CV and went suit shopping and bolstered his ego before a big interview. He just says "you can do whatever you want" and thinks that is encouragement enough.)

I would like you to apologise and cuddle me when I am upset by something rude that you have said to me, not say nothing and walk away because "you don't know what to say".

But to me that sounds a bit prescriptive and the list could have been very long if I had listed all the ways that I believe a loving husband would reciprocate the support given to him!

Bossy "in his view he's perfect!"

Yes Sprouting it is very but I also feel sorry for him because he doesn't get joy out of anything much and obviously doesn't really need a relationship in the same way that I do. He's not a total robot and can be loving sometimes, but its like he just forgets sometimes and finds 'caring' a bit like hard work.

He is very good at doing the practical things like washing up and sorting out all the household finances, but then he gets all the more frustrated when I say that I don't feel like I am getting anything back from him.

I feel things are unequal (e.g. him questioning my spending, but then buying himself things he wants) and I point out that it seems selfish to me, but he can justify anything he does because he is so rational and sensible.

There is no way on earth he would lose his job if he had a diagnosis of ASD. Can you imagine that? "Sorry MrEpilator, we heard you have a disability, you're fired" If that happened you might as well start looking for villas in Spain because the payout you'd get from an employment tribunal would be massive!

It genuinely sounds to me like you and your husband aren't well suited. You need warmth, affection and a caring partner and he needs space and predictability. The things you are asking him to change aren't small - they sound like fundamental personality traits rather than just habits or behaviour. The fact that he can see you in pain and not help, then tut when you struggle to help yourself says a lot. Either he has no empathy at all or he is just a rude lazy git, but either way that's not going to change from "specialist counselling" unless it involves some very hard-core social training. Also, the fact that he can say he won't go on holiday because he won't enjoy it, and not realise how selfish that sounds suggests that he just doesn't "get" what you need for him.

I'd be tempted to say you need to think about whether you can accept him exactly as he is or whether it might be time to move on and find someone who does give you what you need.

I know in most cases they can't discriminate but trust me, he has looked into it and it would cause huge problems for him.

I think the trouble is that on a good day, when he is really trying, he can see that those things are important. I have to decide whether the good days outweigh the bad, and I fluctuate a lot because, as you say, there may be someone out there who can give me what I need.

However, there may not be, which is why I asked if what I'm looking for is unreasonable. The general consensus seems to be, its the very least I should expect from a marriage, but others have said I'm going about it in the wrong way, so I haven't made the leap just yet in case I can help to salvage things.

He does just sound lazy and rude to me.

I've found it difficult to find anything helpful to say here because I just don't understand (lack of empathy with the non-empathetic?). The thing I still haven't grasped is, does he care about you?

I get the 'difficulty knowing what's expected, how to demonstrate feelings and express himself effectively' but what I haven't got is what he wants to express and whether he has any feelings.

I don't see the value in training someone to behave in a certain way if they are just doing it for an easy life, to get what they want for their selfish selves, with less hassle.

Does he want to spend time with you? Does he care whether you succeed and feel fulfilled? Does he value you as anything other than a housekeeper? If not, why are you bothering?

That's why I asked, in essence, why he chose to marry you and how he expressed his admiration and enthusiasm for spending time with you back then. Do you know that he is capable of feeling love, admiration and affection for another human being? If so, he may have got lazy and set in some selfish ways but there may be something to salvage. If not, I can't see that you have anything to work with.

Lottie, that's exactly what I'm struggling to understand as well. As a recent example, I had come to the end of my tether and said "I can't live with you, I would be better off on my own".

He said he didn't want to move out because he likes our house. He said he'd miss the DCs and said that he didn't want his life to turn out like this, but I was waiting for him to say something - anything - that related to how he felt about me - that he would rather be married to me than not be. But nothing.

I had told him that being a single parent wasn't my dream either and that I would rather still be married to him, but only if that meant I would have his support, love, protection etc. but it was only when he suggested that we should tell the DCs that he was moving out, I told him that he had made this happen by not showing any signs of love to me and that their tears were his doing, that he said anything about caring for me. "Of course I care about you, that goes without saying".

I also don't know if he has any feelings for any of us or whether the small things he does that are kind are just by accident! He bought me some thoughtful xmas prezzies and we went out for lunch yesterday to try and spend some time together at his suggestion, so I know he is trying, but how long will it last until he forgets again and gets wrapped up in himself?

Excuse the rant!