HOW DO YOU KNOW IT IS TIME TO LEAVE???

[DHknowsMyOtherHandle]

O.k. I'm a mn poster, but as dh knows my usual handle I thought it safer to assume an alias...

I will probably not make much sense but maybe somebody can either knock some (sense) into me or give some advice...

Background: DH and I knew each other when I got pg with dd (now 4) and got married. Had planned to get married and have kids anyhow just not that 'early' into the relationship so no major prob.
I got pnd with dd and got medicated. Everything still o.k. with some little scuffles - usually me getting annoyed because dh doesn't pull finger.
Got pg with ds who is now 16 months. got pnd as well and was medicated. Came off medication 4 months ago and since then things have gotten gradually worse. Don't know whether it's because I'm off the AD's and less tolerant or because DH is getting worse.
He's not a talker, if something upsets him you've got this big ogre spotting a storm cloud iykwim. Had a few bigger chats over the last couple of months, making lists of 'issues' and setting some 'ground rules', i.e. putting anything planned etc. on the wall calendar (he never looks at) just to pick a trivial example.

Won't list all the gripse I have, just a synopsis:

• I'm always the one to 'break the ice'
• I always end up feeling like it's my fault
• I'm the one who organises everything and gets things done because he has no time (except for looking into things that interest him, not things that need doing) being so busy at work. Well helloooooo... I take care of the kids, dishes, washing and quick tidy up so nanny doesn't find a bombsite when she arrives before I go to work, then come home and take care of household, dinner and kids! [can you guess that's one of my major gripse?]

Basically atm I feel like I'm a single mum with fringe benefit as dh does get up for kids at night and sort of takes care of them over the weekend. I know it's nothing like really being a single mum as a friend of mine is, but I'd love some support not the feeling that 'Family & Home' is my responsibility, especially as I'm working too.

After this long lament... back to my question in the heading. How and when does one decide that enough is enough? I know it's an individual thing, but I really would appreciate some pointers as I'm sort of too exhausted to think.

Have to add that should I take the big step and leave, not that I want to... I have no support network here in the UK as both our families are abroad. Have 2 good friends to rely on but one is going back home soon (abroad) and the other one is the single mum I mentioned, who's good for moral support, but obviously is stretched enough herself. Not to mention the financial side of things!

HELP

i know it is easier said then done but having 2 failed relationships it has left me 100000 times stronger and i know that if the relationship i am in isnt right then i am strong enough to walk out. my friend has done just that this week and i am so proud of her for having the strenght to do it .
always a tricky one .depending on how long it has been going on , it may not get any better , why delay the agony and find the independant women in you and seperate.
im 23 and have 3 children , i know that its the kids that end up hurt and confused but having really bad relationships i believe that they deserved better. i didnt want them to grow up thinking that it was normal to argue and have so much friction between two people . i know have a perfect man who is the ideal role model . i am hoping that they now will grow up to be strong and know that to love one another is to talk cuddle kiss share housework and be comforting to each other.
thats what they deserve .
love and hugs and bucket full of support to you all xxxxx

I think the point comes when you have tried everything. I often thought to myself 'how would I explain to my dd why i split up with her father when she was older'. And I felt I owed it to her to be able to say well i tried and I tried and i tried -- but it still didn't work...

the thing is dh can be lovely, cuddlesome etc. but then something flips iykwim that's the bit I can't cope with.

The bad patches have gotten worse over the last year. How much longer do I try, try, try?

So, last time I read a thread from you (if you are who I think you are) you were contemplating whether to return to work after your second maternity leave. Did you do that? Are you actually prepared to get up and go? And, if you did leave, what is it that you would havein your life that you do not have now? Inother words, would you to the gym on Tuesdays? Would you go out with work colleagues for lunch on Fridays? And so on... Make this list of things that you would have, and go out and arrange to have those things now. It may help YOUR happiness.

BTW, I haven't seen you in ages and it's lovely to see you now. Sorry you are having a tough time.

I think you have already come to adecision in your own mind - but are just seeking the strength and courage to carry it out. I hope that you find both, and am sure that they are already there within you.
Good Luck and Godspeed.

browniechick... I don't know whether I've come to a decision in my mind... but atm I feel like running and screaming (whilst lugging the kids withme)

Uwila, well spotted it's me - you're good!

Yes I did go back to work, the then kicked me after 6 months due to work commitment not being compatible with family commitments... anyhow got another job close to home now.

Am I ready to up and go? Don't know. Still would have the kids with me so still not much me-time.
What would I have to loose? The constant battle and frustration. It would be so much easier if they were of the violent and aggressive kind then I would have left ages ago I think. If on my own at least I know 100% that everything needs to be done by me without a bystander who throws in the odd criticism.

My friend reckons what I'm going through is pretty normal and that I should concentrate on the good things in DH, i.e. like he's going to work etc.... well I can maybe muster 3 things he does. In comparison to how many I rack up???

You can probably tell I'm a bit stuck in a stubbon fight 'why should I' mode.

Saying that... this morning I got an email from dh saying we need to talk. So maybe some of the chat before xmas got through his thick skull cause I did tell him I'm sick and tired of always being the one that opens the dialogue.

So tonight should be interesting.

Good luck tonight.

Thanks Uwila,

though I don't really know what I'm going to say tonight... I've said it all before and feel like a broken record.

ATM I'm doing lists... e.g.
Typical Days as I seem them mine and his. My side is much longer.
Things that annoy the hell out of me etc. and that one is getting long... just little things really but if you add them up ... big poc

argh forgot to change handle again. to use dd's favourite phrase atm... never mind.

Message withdrawn

ggglimpopo tbh I can't even see myself that far ahead...

Perhaps it would be good if he actually saw this thread? Then he at least knows how much this means to you and how much you do care about him. Might make him think.

Oh, and if he is depressed, giving him a list of things you do and he doesn't and referring to him as lazy won't help. Not having a go here, just wanting you to understand. I mean, turn it around for a sec back to when you were depressed and not even wanting to get out of bed, could this have been your dh saying the very same things about you? Go easy on him, don't put him on the defensive, counter every negative comment you make with a positive like; "You're really good with the kids, I just wish you could offer me a bit more practical help".

Good luck tonight.

Perhaps you might like to look at the list of things you want hime to change and say, could we focus on these three over the next month. And them offer him the opportunity to point out a few things that he would like you to work on. If the lists are too big the task may be too overwhelming.

It can get better. But you will both have to accept blame, and you will both have to work hard. Don't strive for perfection. You can not have a perfect husband. But, do expect him (and you) to make a reasonable effort.

Rhubarb I know what you're saying Well he keeps saying he isn't depressed. I keep offering help etc. but it gets dismissed. Hence I'm at the end of my tether. It's easier to persuade an oyster to open up without assistance to release its pearl!

Uwila I'm actually drawing up bullet points now as I haven't got much to do a work

Headings are
Typical Days for you and me
Things I think we need to do together
Things I think I need to do
Things I think you need to do
Pet Hates and grips I can live with

I need to get it out of my system or I go nuts.
When we sit down we will have to decide together which areas we work on first... baby steps I guess. Oh and I know there are no perfect husbands. I'm not perfect either. However, it still seems to be down to the female to make amends...

Oh btw, I have a little phrase that I often have to say to myself, and it explains sooooooo many of life's mysteries...

MEN ARE DUMB

That's it. Why is the sky blue? Because men are dumb. Why are my taxes so high? Because men are dumb. Why is the toilet seat a mess? Because men are dumb. Why do we have so much debt? Because men are dumb.

Okay, so there's not a lot of logic in there, but I thought it might cheer you up.

Thanks for a laugh Uwila.

Can be substituted with men will never mature past the mental age of 5

Household and parenting issues aside, I think it's time to re-evaluate your marriage if the love is gone. If you love him then there is something to build on. I'd keep pushing for Relate. I know you say he's not a talker, but a third party might bring him out of himself a bit.

Well, how'd it go?

we haven't had time to sit down and discuss it as I've been feeling crap and went to bed when kids did the last few night. Guess suffering from major pmt when I originally posted/had the issues didn't help.

He got to reading my list yesterday though I think as he's been a bit subdued.

Af for whether the love is still there... must be would I otherwise be getting so upset?

Maybe I manage to stay up long enough tonight so we can talk through the list. At least this way he's had some time to formulate his thoughts