Would you consider this cheating???

[999HELPMYPUDDINGSONFIRE]

This is an issue that has played on my mind for a long time.
Reason being is that I don't think I can describe it as "cheating" but in my heart it still feels like he did.
So honest opinions please.
We had broken up in January, my decision.
I had previously come out of a bad relationship and he wanted to move too fast at that point.
We met up a few times in jan feb and march, probably once a week for either dinner to see a film or he would drive me to work ( he always asked me I never asked him )
We had a kiss in February where I thought I could make it work but a week later broke it off again.
I went on holiday in april with a friend to clear my head and whilst there I called him and said the time apart had made it more clear it wasn't going to work.
I saw him twice in may, once for his sisters birthday party ( she asked me to go shes only 16 so I went ) and once when my brothers baby was born he came with us to meet him.
I tried constantly to be positive and there were days that went okay an I'd start to think it could work, we had a few hand holding moments etc but then at the end of the day he would ask me to be with him etc and I couldn't give him that.
I realise I shouldn't have kept meeting him but I wanted to love him like he kept telling me he loved me.
He would ring and text me all day everyday begging me
To see him.
Well, in June he decides a holiday is what we need, some time alone just us, to see if my mind changes.
I agree, I'll pay my half.
In June we go out for the day and it was like something suddenly switched.
I wanted to be with him, it was like I fell in love with him all over again.
For the next month things couldn't have been better, little trips away, he got my initial tattooed on his neck as a surprise ( not chavvy by the way although a little rocky I guess! )
Well then I find a message from a girl sent in feb.
I wasn't snooping, he asked me to find a message from his brother in his phone but had obviously forgot to delete it.
It referred to a night they'd spent together so I went mad.
I had asked him the day we had got back together if anything had happened with anyone else, he said no, he loved me and never wanted anyone else.
He actually welled up when I asked him.
Anyway he admits that they slept together, a friends with benefits type thing a few times in march and again in June, the last time being the day before we for back together! Although he said after yet did it she didn't seem that interested in it happening again and was quite distant etc.
Well, he had slept with her on the same day he had booked the holiday for us, other nights he had dropped me to work he had then met her after.
So he had condoms ready in his wallet in my company which makes me feel sick.
He says we weren't doing anything sexual, that we wasn't together, that no matter how much he wanted to be with me it wasn't happening so he turned to her to try and get over me.
He thought if he could sleep with someone else ( he hadn't slept with anyone else before me ) that he would be able to cancel the holiday and tell me where to go, that I'd hurt him enough.
He had also carried on talking to her after we for back together, 4 times
In 3 weeks although she did know we were back together an they didn't meet up again just spoke on the phone although I'll never know if he would have carried on sleeping with her if she wanted to, although my head says he wouldn't have got the tatoo and told her about us of that was his plan.
Why he kept talking to her is beyond me, it was always him ringing her.
He says because when they started speaking again ( the night I broke up with him he called her, she was ex of his friend so they had met a few times the year before when he was with him friend ) that she had listened to his problems for 5 months ( even though they were sleeping together by this point ) so he was just telling her how happy he was that we were back together.
If she had been more up for it on the last occasion would he have been so quick to tell her?
Who knows.
He was telling me he loved me everyday, cried, begged booked the holiday in hope that it would help my mindset and we would be together.
So why sleep with her?? And especially after you decide to pay for a holiday?
Anyone??

^We had broken up in January, my decision.
I had previously come out of a bad relationship and he wanted to move too fast at that point^.

I'm not getting this. You've got how many dc with this man in how many years? When did this break occur?

I'd like to know when the '3 happy years' occurred, RealiT. Was it before or after he wanted to 'move too fast'?

How old are your dc, OP?

This occurred in 2009. Our first child was conceived in feb 2010.
We have a 14 month old and a 9 week old.
I know you're all now going to say why would you have children of you felt like this etc etc but when it first all came out I was angry that he had lied when asked, asked if they'd used contraception got an std check in case he was lying about that, asked him to cut all contacte with her ( he asked the same about an ex I used to talk to now and again and I agreed ) and we
Moved in together in the October.
My thoughts seem to have hot worse about this as time has gone in as stupid as that sounds.
More and more things come to me, like he must have had condoms on him driving me to work or that one of the days would have been the day he booked the holiday met my newborn nephew let me take his sister out for her birthday etc etc.
I guess even though I had told him it was over, most days we met resulted in an argument as he always wanted me to say I'd be with him - after I'd broken up with the other guy in may ( which he knew about 100% ) I kind I saw myself with him just as I was seeing him a lot more.
I know this is my fault, I feel like he cheated because I was still meeting him, giving him the chance to say that he loved me etc.
If we hadn't seen each other for those 5 months, of I hadn't kissed him those 2 times and then we had got back together and this had emerged I wouldn't be feeling like this.
It comes accross as decietful to me as he was acting one way with me then another with her.
She didn't know he was still in contact with me after my holiday where I said there was never a chance of us working it out.
He said he didn't mention me again to her or to anyone as he felt like a fool and people would think he was an idiot for web talking to me again after that.

Honestly you sound tapped.

This happened almost 3 years ago???

And no it isn't cheating. You can't build up someone's hopes and smash them down again repeatedly, and expect them to remain loyal to you at the same time!!!

I understand why your hung up about the fact that he lied but realise that if indeed he loves you so much he would have been terrified to tell you immediately after you got back together because he would have been afraid you'd change your mind again.

If you want to be with him let it go. If not, don't.

Please try to put these thoughts aside just for today, honey, and try to get as much rest as you can.

After the holiday, make an appointment with your GP and/or talk to your hv because fixating on negative thoughts is a symptom of pnd.

You've described him as a loving df. Let him take some up of the slack over the next couple of days while you put your feet up or take a relaxing soak in the tub.

Thank you.
Maybe it's because I feel more dependant on him since having the children I question his action and motives a lot more.
I'll never know certain things like id she was more into it whether or not he would have told her about us, if he would have come on the holiday anyway even though still sleeping with her or if he would have slept with her again given the chance.
Someone said on this thread I may as well wonder why a car didn't hit me in 2008 and it's true :-(

How were you after the birth of your first dc, op? Do you think you might have pnd?

Realitree :
I see what youre saying but the way I see it is that he had a choice during those 5 months to cut off contact with me and move in ( I admit I probably shoul have done this in the start and it would have avoided all this ) but as I didn't know what he was doing, I was just led to believe something by his actions and what he said ( I did say to him on numerous occasions meet someone else etc and his response was always I don't want someone else I want you )
The day that I asked him if he'd slept with anyone else during our time not as a couple and he nearly cried he said no.
He went to lengths so that I didn't find out, he wouldn't even come to a tarot reader with me ( later came out he was worried it would have come out ) but yet for some reason he still carried on talking to her, on days we had come back from hotel trips etc.
He maintains that he would have come on the holiday and I we'd got back together wouldn't have met her again or by the time the trip was due he was over me and we wouldn't have gone.
Se knew nothing about this so again strikes me as deceitful although I do see that he wouldn't advertise it as he thought he'd look stupid and didn't tell me about her as he thought he'd lose me again.

I have just been checking all my Threads I'm on while the kids are out with their dad

999, I wish you a peaceful Xmas Day

But I don't think anyone here can help you

I have never, ever said this on here, to anyone, but I do think you should see your doc after the xmas break. Your obsession with this isn't healthy, and the anxiety and circular thoughts you don't see to be able to shake off may be a sign of PND

You are clearly not going to end your relationship, so you do need to find a way to deal with this, before he heads off himself

I have told you on your other threads, some of your husbands behaviour would be a deal breaker for me. But not for everyone, clearly, and it's OK, really to be on either side of that fence

but I do think you need some help in thinking more clearly...whether that is personal counselling to get your thoughts straight, or medication if, as it seems, there is some hormonal imbalance here causing your normal equilibrium to be up the old Swanee

all the best x

Gin :
Absolutely fine, not down at all.
It's just this that confuses me to this extent.

AF :
You are the only one with this opinion, what exactly do you thi k he's done wrong? As I'm not even sure and obviously nobody else agrees!
Do you see it as cheating?

^he thought he'd look stupid and didn't tell me about her as he thought he'd lose me again.

This is all the explanation you need, honey.

Others may see us as stupid if we're begging and pleading for reconciliation after the one we love has dumped us, and fear of losing the one we love can make us do stupid things.

I completely agree with AF. It isn't healthy to be obsessively questioning your partner and his motivations for something that happened ?3 years ago, particularly given you have two young children as well as yourself to look after, so you don't have the time or energy for all this rumination. For your own health you need to draw a line under this one way or another - either forgive him and look to the future, or decide the trust has gone and split. Yes, I think it was pretty ungallant, to say the least, for him to be sleeping with another woman when he was hoping to get back with you, but given your dithering and going out with another man this isn't straightforward infidelity.

Ah bless you, I've just seen you have a 9 week old baby. I think you need some medical help. These obsessional thoughts and your behaviour is not normal. Get as much rest as you can, try and enjoy Christmas and get yourself to your GP as soon as they are open again. x

Maybe I'm the one with the problem

I am not the only one with my opinion, 999

I think your husband sounds like a weak man...mostly for the other stuff though (the porn and the chat lines)

You seem fixated on whether somebody can say he was "cheating"

ok, I will answer that specific question

theoretically, no

but he lied to your face and he hedged his bets

so did you...can't you see that ?

personally (and this is all we can do on here) I wouldn't share my life with a man who would do all of these things (esp. the other stuff)

but you are doing...you have just had 2 babies with this man in quick succession, so like TLP said, you need to make up your mind. You are moving on with this, or you are not. I think you need help with that decision, and you won't find it here, my love

Thanks AF
I didn't mention chat lines in my porn thread, he's never used them to my knowledge so I'm not sure where that info has come from.
I understand what you're saying and I certainly didnt behave well however my
Only defence is that I was completely upfront with him
So he went into it with open eyes. He could have got out of it at any point.
I started our relationship again with the view that for 5 months he was heartbroken and had just waited for me considering all the nights he met her he was still texting me saying he loved me etc

was it dating sites then ?

Yeah, whilst we weren't together again.
This was also during the time he was sleeping with her

Yule : are you being sarcastic or serious?

I am being serious. you say "Well, in June he decides a holiday is what we need, some time alone just us, to see if my mind changes" then "Well, he had slept with her on the same day he had booked the holiday for us"

IMO tis is cheating. He wants to be with you so why would he be shagging other people?

you are better off without him.

I find the whole thing utterly confusing though.

Then that is the same decision, isn't it ?

I was under the impression the dating sites were a recent thing (along with the porn)

Like I said, he seems like a weak and fickle man

But many people are a bit weak and fickle...it doesn't make him a bad man...perhaps just not the wonderful person you thought he should be

You still have the same dilemma however...put up or shut up

I think this is really the wrong time for you though. You need support at the moment. You need it from him. Have you spoken to him recently ?

But please, not today eh ?