DP and alcohol. Long, sorry.

[misty0]

I cant talk to anyone in RL aobut this and just need a shoulder i think. There are people with worse situations out there than mine, i know. So i'm sorry if this sounds a bit pathetic, but here goes:

(So as not to drip feed i'll try to include as much as poss)

I've been living with my DP for nearly 4 years. I love him to bits and he loves me. He's quite a 'blokey' sort of guy outwardly, with alot of swagger, and has a history (pre me) of alcohol and drug abuse, petty crime and disasterous unloving relationships. Over the 18 months we were seeing each other before we moved in together our relationship involved alot of drinking together. My alcohol consumption went up a bit - his went WAY down, as he gradually began only drinking at the weekends with me, instead of all day every day either alone at home or in the pub.

I want to add here I love him because with me he is loving, affectionate, kind, caring, funny, gentle, loyal, protective and he's gorgeous. We have a great sex life. He says that i am the best thing that has ever happened to him - and i feel the same about him. He is my soul mate. Since we've been together he's held down a steady job and has had nothing more to do with drugs or crime at all. He is a hard working guy, proud of me and his home and is lovely company. Even my mum likes him! His family are all very happy and relieved he seems so happy and settled now.

There's a big 'BUT ...' coming now, obviously.

The first couple of years we lived together we would drink quite heavily together most Saturday nights. Just us at home, watching telly and having a laugh. As his tollerance for alcohol went down and he began to get pissed on a 'normal' amount of alcohol however, it started to be that occasionally (maybe once every 2 months or so) towards the end of the evening he would turn really nasty. Get abusive and say awful things to me. Sometimes we would drink, go to bed, make love, go to sleep - all fine. Then he'd wake in the night and be a total bastard - swearing at me, calling me names, shoving me about, crashing about the house not knowing where the bathroom is, getting nasty in bed, ect. I'd go to sleep crying and he would be oblivious. In the morning he remembers nothing about it at all. He believes me that its happened, not least because its happened with ex's of his in the past. He is always sorry and ashamed. He comes up with a stratergies to avoid it happening again such as changing what he's drinking (he now stays away from spirits) or defining an amount we think he can drink 'safely' (Current stratergy - up to 8 cans only and never on an empty stomach)

The problems are,
a) There are times when the limit goes out of the window and he just wants to drink everything in the house and stay up till its all gone.

b) There are times when he gets out of control even under his self imposed limit.

c) He is very disinclined to want to talk about 'limits' and how much booze is in the house and available for him to drink, unless we've just had one of these awful bloody nights and the subject is up.

To bring you right up to date - i fell pregnant in January this year and we were both utterly over the moon. I stopped drinking completely, of course, and he would just have a can or two every other weekend. Blissfully happy. I lost the baby though, at almost 4 months and that hit us both very hard.

After we lost the baby neither of us had a drink for 5 months or so. We have both started having a couple on a Saturday though in an attempt to 'lighten up' a bit about ttc as we were both getting a bit bogged down with it all. Vitamin pills and god knows what else. He is still drinking alot less than he used to, to improve our chances of conceiving, but i can see the old pattern starting again - the excitement about 'having a few later'. The need to have 'a bit extra in the house'. The count down to 6 o'clock on a Saturday evening when 'we can kick off'. Then about 4 weeks ago he woke in the night after a few drinks and was abusive and frightening again. i came down stairs and sobbed my heart out. I shake with fear when he's like that.

I'm struggling mentaly a bit at the moment after the loss of our baby. I'm more emotional and tearful than usual, but i am getting better. 2 nights ago, 'because its xmas' we had a few drinks together. I had 2 and he ended up getting rat arsed. He threw it all up before we went to bed as it happens, however, and all was ok. However i spent the whole evening till bed time watching the clock wanting the evening over with, worried and scared in case it all went tits up again. I hated every second of it. I was awake all night and everytime he moved my heart was thumping in case he was waking up like that again. He senses i'm worried - and has promised 'he'll be good over xmas' - but i'm a nervous wreck. He doesnt know how paranoid i'm getting.

Thank you for getting through all this. Just needed to share it all.

Misty0 - you are using the 'I love him' as an excuse. As if somehow that makes it ok to live with an aggressive alcoholic.
I had a mc too with my dh, then a third child, and then a termination. I had the abortion because I simply couldn't cope with the thought of being so vunerable again. I could have left of course, and possibly should have, but at the time I felt that the termination was the best option. It's not romantic at all living with an aggressive alcoholic.

I'm so sorry for your loss.

You need grief counselling. You're not in a good space emotionally, and that's why you can't see the wood for the trees with this man. Getting pregnant in your situation would be a lot like becoming an alcoholic to deal with your grief... you would be trying to put a band aid on a suppurating wound, and that can only end in tears.

Added to that, you have a man involved who is showing signs of being dangerous towards you and your hypothetical child.

He's taking the risk abusing and terrifying you each time he drinks. You know that, and you accept it. He knows this, and he accepts it. Both you and him think it's more important for him to drink, than it is for you to feel safe. That is WRONG. If he were a good man, the moment he frightened you while drunk, he would put down the bottle FOR GOOD, and thank God in heaven he had the option to do something that would make his home a safer place for his partner.

As it stands now, he chooses alcohol and being drunk, over your safety.

Think about that.

It's more important for him to drink, than it is for you to feel safe and happy. He has all his excuses lined up, and you accept them. All is well for him.

How is that going to pan out when there's an infant in the house?
Will he carry on, choosing to get drunk and risk injuring, perhaps killing, your baby in a drunken rage? You think you're vulnerable... how is a tiny baby going to fare in that situation? Where will you hide the child while he's drunk? How will you keep the child safe? How will you keep the child quiet, calm her down when she's on an hysterical crying jag after he's been on the piss? You will need to work all those things out if that baby is going to have a chance at life.

What good will his excuses do when it's your small child being hurt and terrified? What comfort will it be when he tells you it was all the drink, he can't even remember it, etc. etc.? Will that make it OK?

I mean all that I say kindly. I am very sad for you, for the pain you're in and the desperate measures you're taking to try and make it go away. You are vulnerable and you need support. Your partner is part of the problem, he can't help you and you can't help him. He's made his choice... the booze is more important than you. He's shown you who he is, so believe him.

Please please please get support for your grieving process. You need to talk to someone and start moving towards healing and health.

Another baby is not the answer... no human being deserves to be brought into this world in hopes that his/her birth will make Daddy stop drinking and hurting Mummy. That burden is impossible to bear even for an adult, never mind a little child. Your baby deserves a life of its own, on its own terms. Not as a band aid... that is how children grow up damaged... that's how children are driven insane

What a lovely person you sound, Misty

that even after I say something you really don't want to hear, you can give me a post of my own to express sympathy for me

I am so very sorry you lost your baby

but...

< there is always a but...>

this "shelved" thing ? Are you going to carry on ttc'ing ? Because if you get pg again, then you can allow yourself to stay with a nasty alcohol abuser

please open your eyes to the lies you are both telling each other (but mostly to each of your own selves) that this is ever going to work out well, with things as they are

the only way I see a happy resolution is that you stop ttc'ing and live apart while he seeks help with his alcohol problem

if he won't...well then what ?

Misty, I can empathise with your situation. I met my dp just about 12 years ago. Like you we often used to go out and drink and have a good time. I do enjoy a drink of course. Unfortunately it turned out his relationship with alcohol is much more complex, long standing and ultimately destructive. I was a bit naive really, I thought if I just mentioned that I thought he had a problem then he would say you're right and that would be that!

12 years and two DCs later I have at last come to realise it's an intolerable situation. It's not for me to control what he can't control. I don't ever leave him alone overnight with the kids any more after several awful situations.

I understand exactly what you mean about the split personality- the problem is that when you have kids you can't continue to make allowances, you need to be able to depend on another adult, not have another sulky child to put up with.

Of course I am very happy to have my two DCs, but give me the choice again and I would have taken a different path. It's a lot harder to get out of when you have two children who love their dad, and who can't understand why their mum doesn't want to let their dad take them somewhere despite being in no fit state to look after himself, never mind them.

For what it's worth my resolution this year is to get out of this, it's all gone on too long! Xxx

Thank you AF

Thank you again to every one taking the time to answer. I've needed this.

I know this is pointless saying this, because it does sound so lame and no one will believe me - understandable because you all only have my posts to go on and i sound like a lemon here even to myself! But i want to say this to stop people worrying....

If i fell prg before this was all resolved and when the baby came i thought he/she was in harms way AT ALL i would not stay. I would remove myself and the baby to safe ground. I do have alot of backbone when it comes to protecting other people - i've got a good track record with that. Just not good at helping myself i think.

I keep typing things out and they sound pathetic and such a cliche that i'm deleting them again.

I keep saying i love him because its what i keep coming back to in my head, and i'm just thinking out loud here. 99.99% of the time he is and has been my absolute rock through life. I dont feel like i saved him at all (as one poster suggested i do. I feel he saved me) Perhaps i just feel i owe him to sort this out and not walk away. He has stuck with me through some shyte of my own. A messy divorce for one. I was married for 12 years to a man who never drank a drop, never lost his temper with me but in those 9 years didnt show me a fraction of the love, time and affection my PD gives freely every day.

Almost deleted that last bit but i wont!

Squeegle - i wish you all the best on your resolution to get away. Good for you, well done and good luck.

AF - perhaps a tentative step i could take would be to stop ttc for a while then. Even without DPs problems i do feel like i'm frantically ttc - and doing anything frantically isnt good is it?

Oik - i think you're right. I am a bit damaged at the mo and probably could benefit from a little support. I'm not thinking clearly about anything much right now.

perhaps a tentative step i could take would be to stop ttc for a while then

WTF???! You're asking AF whether you should tentatively stop ttc for a while?

Does that mean you may tentatively take the pill or tentatively ask him to wear a condom?

FGS what are you doing ttc with this car crash of a man?

It's obvious that you're not sweeping his alcoholism under the carpet, honey - you've nailed it to the floorboards and put laminate on top.

A crystal ball is not needed to foresee the the outome of your relationship with your 'absolute rock' when he fully dissolves into a pile of shifting sand.

On re-reading my above response, it does seem a somewhat unChristmassy message but I am truly shocked that you are ttc with this man.

You need time to process the damage you suffered through your marriage to a non-demonstrative man and time to come to terms with your recent mc.

You also need time to see whether he is willing to address his abuse of alcohol before you think of ttc again with this man.

'He has stuck with me through some shyte of my own.'

Really?
Is that what you call getting pissed and aggressive?

Whatever.

misty a peaceful Xmas Day to you

I don't know if you will read this today, but you have found my soft spot, my non-harsh funny bone

it doesn't change my opinion, reading what you have added in your last post, and I would normally be doing an Izzy-style monologue at you (and I do agree with her) but I won't

I really wish you the strength here, the insight to realise (I think you are getting there, actually) that bringing a child into a situation like this is the wrong thing to do

everything changes when you have a baby

any resolve you may make to walk away at the first sign of trouble will crumble believe me

you will look to him even more, a new mother is very vulnerable and needs people around her that she can trust implicitly...and the way things are now he will let you down, my love. And the ways he will let you down will be very, very serious

anyway, I wish you peace and I hope you will come back when the festive season is over and explore this again

we will be here x

Hope your christmas is peaceful.

With a baby, even basic things can be difficult. I am here in a darkened room while b-feeding mine who's been in meltdown and my xmas dinner is getting cold! Leaving a relationship with a baby is much easier said than done. You may find yourself unsupported with pnd, saying things like "I can't leave him, i need to be stronger first, the DC needs us both, I need to give him (yet) another chance, I would be depriving my DC of a sibling".........

Are you hoping that if you have a baby with him then whatever happens you'll have the baby, and something of him? That would be an understandable fantasy but v selfish if actually enacted.

His agreeing not to drink this weekend is just rule-setting/manipulation and is symptomatic of the problen, not a "good sign". Especially if you're visiting your family with whom he puts on a front. What about 27th, 28th, new year's, jan, this time next year? As izzy says, it's all denial - and fantasy - for you right now.

If you've been in a bad marriage can see how your dp seems different, but feeling grateful and over-romanticising the new partner for "saving" you can be part of the legacy of a previous abusive relationship, and doesn't mean the new partner is mr right.

So fine, be with him and take advice from threads on here for people with partners with alcohol problems, and the "brave babes", and maybe places like al-anon.

But fgs give ttc a proper break, your future child would thank you for waiting. You talk about being brave in protecting others: NOT conceiving now or soon is the way to protect them.

AF Fantastic post xxx Misty - my heart goes out to you, I have messaged you

I love him and i'd like to find a way to get over the problem.

You can't. Seriously, you can't find a way to get over this problem. Take it from one who is 7 months sober.

I am thinking maybe he'd stop if we had a child.

That will never happen, I promise you. Never. He has to find his own way to understanding that his relationship with alcohol is a problem.

You can support him through coming to terms with his drink problem, but not until he accepts that there is a problem and is willing to deal with it. I knew for a long time. It actually made me drink more, because I knew I had to give up.

He needs to go to his GP and get some help. Plain and simple.

Hope you have a peaceful Christmas.

99.99% of the time he is and has been my absolute rock

If you think it is bad now with his abusive behaviour in the night - and it is! - imagine having a little baby lying next to you in their cot when this happens....

mistyo I can understand that this guy loves you and you love him , but all that only applies when he's not drunk. I think that you are mad to even consider getting pregnant at the moment - hell his drinking will only escalate once a baby is thrown into the equation.

My H is an alcoholic and underneath that is a lovely man. His drinking started like your partners - however over the past 15 yrs his drinking has caused so much heartache to our family and to myself. We are now separated but he still
wants to come back and I still have to remain strong and not let him!

Misty be truthful with yourself - you're hoping that by having a baby he may stop drinking and it may 'anchor' him. It may well do but it won't forever. I've been there myself. Be sensible x

Misty, a happy Christmas to you. My brother (a lovely man) was a drinker like your DP. Before he gave up (and he's been sober over two years :) ) he drank quite infrequently but often when he did, he turned into an aggressive, self-pitying bastard and it destroyed his relationship. His partner called time on it because she knew that when he picked up the beer, she'd more often than not be on the receiving end of his abuse and vile behaviour by the end of the night.

Your dp needs to stop drinking completely, it's the only way. If he can do this and get some sober time under his belt, then, and only then, should you think about having his baby. He might be the nicest man on the planet for 99.9% of the time but while he's drinking, the 0.1% makes the rest of what you have irrelevant. You're living in fear of what he might do.

I'm the adult child of an an alcoholic. Saying you'd have the strength to leave if needs be, to me, just shows how little you have really thought this through.

You will be burdening your child for life. They will never be able to leave & move on from their dad. Bizarrely I have more negative feelings towards my non-alcoholic parent for being so spineless than for the abusive alcoholic one. At least they have an illness. The other one is just selfish.

A child won't thank you for this. When they find out you already had doubts, they will thank you even less.

I do think you are so caught up in wanting it to be 'right' you can't see the wood from the trees. It's a massive mistake to burden someone with.

Sorry if it sounds harsh but harshness has tarnished my whole life, as it would your child's.

I just wanted to pop back and wish everyone happiness this xmas

I'm still reading and will post properly when normal service is resumed. Still gratefull for everyone's thoughts and time spent replying.

I'm chuffed about your soft spot AF, as i always find your responses on MN balanced and fair. Thank you.

I've sat this morning and re read all your replies.

So many of you have put so much thought into what you've said. I really am very very grateful as its helping me see clearly.

I think what jumps out at me most at the mo is that he does need to be the one who decides to stop, yes. I think that is the reason i havnt 'told' or asked him to stop drinking completly - because deep down i know that decision should come from him. I can see that now.

He does absolutely realise that he has a problem, btw. I dont think i made that clear. The second or third (cant quite remember) time we ever met he got very stressed during our date and said there was something i should know about him. He then shot to the loo while i sat there all thinking oh christ he's married. Then he came back and said 'i'm an alcoholic'. So it's not a forbiden subject as such.

NOT ROMANTASISING HERE! Just telling you how things happened.

tribpot - that was really interesting about how you drank more because you knew you had to give up. Well done for 7 months sober as well.

Like i said before neither of us touched a drop for 5 months through the summer. He said he didnt want to try and drown his sorrow about baby because he know where it would lead. So there is an elelment of control there - i suppose its now taking the step to stop because of how he behaves towards me on some occasions.

Part of me worries that i am over reacting and am suffering form over anxiety about this. Its just been so frightening in the past. I'm thinking of setting myu phone to record all night when we drink together so that if he kicks off i can catch it and he can hear what goes on. Its not that the doesnt believe me - i just think it would help him really get how bad it is.

Ttc - you're all absolutely right. Its bloody hard getting my head round it because i so want to be pregnant agian.

Sorry for the great ramble.

Misty0 - He's an alcoholic. That means he's a master at managing to bury his head in the sand when it comes to things that are uncomfortable for him.

You know the way when you've done something you're mortified over, and you feel ill when you think about it. Then over time, that ill feeling recedes and you no longer feel as bed when you think about it. That's what your dp's life is like, one long string of things he is mortified by, but he knows that with a little time, he'll get over it, and it won't affect him any more.
He's an expert at this. Blanking stuff out that he doesn't want to dwell on.
He might be a little contrite in the beginning, but it wears off every time.

More worrying is why you think you deserve such treatment. He's abusive towards you and you still claim to love him. That's some low standard you have for the love of your life.
I'm sure if you read more on here you will see repeated over and over how abusive men are not abusive all the time. (otherwise they would never manage to get girlfriends/wives in the first place). It's classic, it's not an indication that your dp is somehow 'special' (and 'worth saving') because he can be 'amazing' some of the time. He's the same as most other abusive men. It's a pattern they all follow. Be 'amazing' when it suits him and then when things get a little difficult he acts up (btw, his behaviour in the good times is probably no different to normal men, it just feels 'amazing to you because it's a contrast to when he is rubbish).
You will hopefully get to the stage where you realise that even one such incident of abusive behaviour is too much.
It's not normality for the majority of people. Most people in relationships are not worried about their other half drinking too much and getting abusive. Why do you think it's ok for you to put up with?

I understand the need to ttc after a mc, but please talk to someone about this before you lock yourself in with this man.

Hi misty- thought I'd add my experience.

My dp is a professional, successful man but he also used to drink (once a month) like a twat. He would not be able to stop when he started (like a teenager) and was just insulting and childish. He'd tell me he'd be back for 11 and it would be 1 etc.

Anyway, it got to the point where I'd dread him drinking (he would only drink when he'd run a marathon or at a party) so I had a chat with him.

We were on a run at the time and I told him what it was like from my point of view (we had been together 3 yrs at this point and had a 1 year old dd.

I didn't say I'll leave you if you drink again but I told him I believed that he would 1 day do something when he wa drunk that would cause us to break up.

He then decided not to drink anymore. At all. I still have the occasional glass of wine (he is fine and encourages it ) but he doesn't want to.

He even says he prefers not to. For dp it was about the fact he is mega shy and thought alcohol made him more fun. Then he realised it didn't, it actually spoilt a lot of the nights out he had with his friends.

His friends are very supportive of this- but he is very quick to correct ppl when they ask him if he wants a drink.

Have a read of this article . It makes a case that alcohol does not cause people to be aggressive, but gives them licence to behave in that way, if they are inclined to aggression.

Your DP has some serious issues, and they include the fact that he holds drinking to be more important than your happiness. You said that he chose to give up for 5 months, so he could stop permanently if he wanted to. Unfortunately, he does not hold you in high enough esteem to find another way to tackle his daemons.

And when I say 'you' I also mean any plans for family life with children that you may have.

I think that is the reason i havnt 'told' or asked him to stop drinking completly - because deep down i know that decision should come from him.

That may well be the case. But it might also be because you're not sure he will stop. And that would then make it very clear that, to him, alcohol is more important than you are. All the time you don't ask the question you can pretend to yourself that you would come first.

You are in a relationship with someone who, on occasion, treats you appallingly. What triggers that behaviour is his business. The fact is that because of his behaviour you now spend at least some of your time stressed in case he kicks off again. You're frightened about how bad it might get next time. The tension in your house is rising and falling on a tide of his alcohol consumption.

He knows that when he's drinking he treats you badly. Yet he continues to choose to drink.

The games he is playing with how much he can safely drink and how much he can't, or changing one drink for another, is simply a smokescreen to persuade you to stick around while he continues to get pissed whenever he wants. He's promising you it will be better tomorrow to take your attention off of how badly he treated yesterday.

But please, in the name of all that is holy, don't have children with this man. If you want to hitch your wagon to an actively drinking alcoholic then that is a life choice you are able to make as an adult. But bringing children into such a relationship is a nightmare. There are few more scary, horrible and downright wretched things in this world than raising children with a drunk.

he told you on an early date, in a pub, that he's an alcoholic, and the early part of your relationship involved heavy drinking.

Choosing to be with him in those circumstance, then fall in love, was self-destructive. It showed him that you'd put up with him drinking and, later, being verbally abused.

He shouldn't need proof of his behaviour afterwards: he should simply believe you.

I understand the impetus to ttc after mc, or in a difficult relationship. But please take time to sort this other stuff out, and take care of yourself.