Issues with cutting contact and me being damned either way...

[bintofbohemia]

I've posted a lot about the mess with my father/stepmother- it goes back years but I've not really spoken to my father since he said many shit things to me a year ago including that I'd exaggerated/downright lied about a car accident my DS1 was in. Then after my half sister sent DH a birthday card with a corpse on the front the day before his father's funeral, (and my stepmother refused to accept that she was out of order and still managed to make it all my fault) I spoke to my SM and said we needed to have no contact until they can acknowledge what they've done and make some effort to sort it out. She was really arsey and said can she call me to talk about the kids presents and I said I meant NO contact. So she said fine, then proceeded to send a couple of jaunty postcards from their holiday all about what a lovely time they were having and like nothing had happened, and when she got back she called and left a message (again like nothing's happened) and will I call about Christmas. I texted back to say we'd talk about it when things are sorted. Yet again she's just riding roughshod over what we (DH and I) have asked for and yet again showing us absolutey no respect whatsoever. It took a lot to summon up the courage to have that conversation and clearly I needn't have bothered.

Then last week DH's mum called to say they turned up at hers on spec with presents for us all.

I'm so pissed off. First of all, she's totally disregarding everything that we've discussed. Secondly, she's putting poor DH's mum in an awkward position by putting her in the middle and giving her no choice about it.

If we say thanks, its contact. If we dont, we,'re rude. I look bad because I'm complaining about being bought presents and sent postcards, which sounds ridiculous and yet again putting me in the wrong. I have absolutely no idea how to handle it - they won't put any time or effort into having a relationship with any of us but continue to throw money at us twice a year. I spoke to my brother earlier who asked if I'd heard about half sister and apparently she's just lost a baby. I get the impression that he wants me to get in touch with her, but am sure that if she wanted me to know anything about it she would have told us she was pregnant, but we haven't really been in touch much for the last three years and certainly not since the corpse card. It feels like we are unable to have contact with them because of the problems it causes but not having any contact doesn't seem possible since they just do what they want to do and it feels like whatever we do we look bad.

Sorry for the ramble, I'm just a bit dazed by the whole thing and I don't really know how to handle any of it. I thought cutting contact would solve everything but it doesn't seem to have made any difference when they refuse to respect what we say. Can anyone from the outside see this a bit more clearly? I know it sounds like I'm just being really petulant (oh poor me, they've bought me presents!) but they won't spend any time trying to get things onto good terms (and haven't visited my children for a year, which really upsets my DS1) and think that throwing money/presents at us that we don't want somehow fulfills their (grand)parental obligations, IYSWIM?

Sorry, that's really quite epic...

I don't know what to suggest tbh...

Do you want no contact or do you want to sort things out?

If you want no contact you refuse the gifts,don't reply to texts/change your number etc and draw your line....being willing to take what ever flak comes your way.

If you want to sort it out and have a relationship in the future then unfortunately I think you have to accept the gifts and use them as an excuse for the 'talks' to begin.

In an ideal world, it would be nice if we could sort things out, and for us all to be part of each other's lives without any aggro. But we've tried everything over the years, counselling, talks , I've written letters and none of it makes any difference. My father says that he did his best and if that's not good enough then tough shit. He's not going to take any responsibility for anything, he claims I'm lying when I say he beat me up (as was my mother when she had to take out a restraining order against him, ) and that we made up a load of bollocks about my son having glass in his eye after a car crash. I don't know how you move on from stuff like that when he won't say that he's sorry, or that he didn't mean it, because if he isn't sorry and does mean it then that really begs the question why they would want to have a relationship with me, when I lie about that kind of thing?

I don't want to cut contact, but after DH's dad died and the whole thing was overshadowed by more grief from my family, DH and I both got to the point where we thought that it would be easier to not have any contact, than the constant grief. I wish they would either sort it out, or leave us completely alone, but they are total control freaks and there's no way they'll comply with what they probably view as me calling the shots.

If you don't want any contact at all then send the things back to them. If your Father won't accept that he was violent then you don't really stand a chance over a card sent by your half sis.

If you DO want contact with them then you need to seriously lower your expectations of them and see them in the knowledge that they aren't that nice.

If they won't listen and accept your views on things then I think the choice is either superficial contact knowing they are nasty so and so's...or to really stick to no contact.

But...it doesn't sound from what you post that you really want no contact...so if you have contact is it really as low as gifts being thrown your way twice a year?

If it is then could you cope with that?

If you want no contact sent the gifts back via post so you dont have to see them with no letter or note - they will get the message.

If you want to talk to them and set boundraies then keep them and send back a xmas card/gifts and leave it at supperfisal contact?

What I feel like doing is sending them a text saying "Thanks for the Christmas presents. DS1 wants to know why he never sees you, what shall I tell him?" but I won't.

The thing is, it's very difficult to have just a bit of contact with them as most encounters are usually followed by me and DH discussing/angsting about it for days after and we don't have that kind of time in our lives. It seemed in theory much easier to have no contact.

Also, they are going around telling people that they really want to see our boys, and that we don't let them. Which again, is bollocks, up until a few months back even DH was saying "look, you know you're welcome over whenever" - we constantly invited them over and on days out but they would never come. They have never had a day out with us since we had children 6 years ago, not on the kids birthdays or anything. All they want to do is shop and get pissed, but that doesn't make them look good so they say it's us stopping them. And I just don't know how we get past it all.

I don't think you can get past this until you somehow manage to 'let go' of what they say/think mattering to you.

You can't make them hear what you are saying, or change who they are, the choices are to accept them warts and all or walk away.

They aren't listening imo, so nothing will change from their quarter all you can do is change how you let them affect you.

You're right, actually. I don't think I know how to relate to people who say things like that to me and then act like nothing happened. And I don't want them affecting my children or screwing up another generation. I don't know how to not let them affect me without having nothing to do with them, I seem to have absolutely no immunity to people who are shit to me. I really wish I could toughen up but it doesn't seem to be how I work.

Thanks - it's helping to get this out...

People don't change unless they want to.

If you are distressed by your relationship with your family then you have two choices 1) cut contact (or leave it just formal I.e. just birthday cards) 2) accept them for who they are and choose to accept them flaws and all... The second option doesn't stop you setting boundaries though!

You know what you can handle. stick to that and damn the rest.

"I seem to have absolutely no immunity to people who are shit to me."

Me too, I tend to make a whole load of excuses for their behaviour, for a long time, before realising they are shitting on me on purpose!

I also can't play the 'pretend they didn't say it game' - hence me being no contact with my own family.

Problem is no contact takes a lot of determination and conviction to achieve, you have to not just believe you are right in your choice but know it in your heart.

Mizzy - sorry to hear you have the same problems. Did yours do similar (in terms of refusing to have no contact with you)?

I just don't get it it. I don't know how my father can say such fucking shit things to his own daughter and then just sit back and leave it all floating there. I would be devastated if I fell out with one of my children and they didn't want to have any contact with me, and I can't imagine having grandkids and thinking, sod it, I'd rather get pissed and slag people off all the time than actually spend time with them. I have to think of him in terms of having a personality disorder, or having aspergers to actually get my head around it.

I often think when they're dead I'll be really screwed up about the whole thing as it will never be sorted, but it seems it can't be anyway.

Hi bintofbohemia

My sister sent Birthday cards and money for the DC's...I sent it back...no communication for nearly 5 years now.

My parents, I have only been no contact with for about a year...in that time I was getting odd phone calls so changed the land line number...then odd calls to the mobile so changed that...then emails ect on the DC's birthdays...so blocked their email addy.

Still had birthday and xmas cards for DC's from parents which have NOT been given to DC's.

I don't know how/why my parents behave the way they do either....all I know is that due to my DC's getting to teen years and the DC's noticing how my parents favoured one child over the other and constantly putting another child down etc, etc - that I HAD to stop history repeating itself.

I have 2 siblings....none of us communicate in an adult fashion when together...we are all left with the legacy of our dysfunctional upbringing.

I couldn't let that happen to my DC's....and had worn out all other options so no contact it had to be.

I think that's the key...when you have tried everything to make the relationship work, the only other option is self protection through no contact. No contact to me is the option of last resort.

Bint - are they the ones who used to not let you in the house after school when they weren't there and you had to wait in a cold shed/garage next to the house for them to come home? Or am
I mixing you up with someone else? If that was them I seem to recall exploding in outrage at them on your thread and being gobsmacked that anyone could think that was all right.
If that wasn't you - oops. Faulty memory.

Oh I forgot to say...I can't send the cards back to my parents...I don't have my parents address.

They didn't give me a new address when they moved last year.

Sounds like a control thing.

They like to be in charge and in control, so when you said "enough" they proved they are still in control by totally ignoring what you said.

The only way you can deal with that is by ignoring it, they cant control you if you dont let them. Explain everything to your MIL and apologise, and then ignore them. Donate the presents to charity and DO NOT ENGAGE.

They are attempting to provoke you into contacting them, be it by returning the gifts or phoning them to thank them etc. So dont give them the satisfaction.

Jacks - yes, that is me, I remember your outrage at the time, I really appreciated it, as before then I wasn't sure if that kind of thing was par for the course in the 80's.

Mizzy - we actually moved three weeks ago and didn't tell them - hence them rocking up at the MILs with presents I specifically said we didn't want. I still can't believe they did that - she really doesn't want to get involved in all the aggro and after the year she's just had, and losing her DH we didn't want her given any stress either.

Bogeyface - that's exactly what it is, they won't abide the thought that they're doing what I say, which is why they'll never apologise IMO.

They tried to control our whole wedding, and when we wouldn't let them and organised it ourselves my stepmother called the hotel to get a list of what guests were staying. How screwed up is that?

They're not going to change.
They're not going to acknowledge they've done anything wrong.
They probably think they're being really gracious by overlooking your "odd" behaviour and acting as if nothing's happened.
That's as good as it's going to get.
If other people ask why you aren't letting your DCs see them, you're perfectly entitled to tell your side of the story. You don't have to go along with their version.
Other than feeling guilty (which is a byproduct of abuse), what would you actually lose if you never had anything to do with them ever again?

Oh Bint ((((HUG)))). I'm so bloody angry that they're still at it.
I don't know what advice I could offer that you haven't had already. :( and for you. Must dash but will be back.

..."she really doesn't want to get involved in all the aggro and after the year she's just had, and losing her DH we didn't want her given any stress either."

..and that ^^ in a nutshell is the difference between you and them...you have empathy for your MIL and they don't seem capable of thinking of anything beyond their own immediate needs/wants.

So glad you didn't give them your address when you moved...at least you have some uninvaded 'space' in which to gather your thoughts.

Tbh the more you're posting... the more proper no contact seems the only option.

I don't know how you 'fence sit' with people who behave so badly!

Tell your MIL that you're sorry she was put in this position, and ask her, next time, to say that she doesn't want to be in the middle and therefore she is not inviting them in or taking in any parcels/messages from them to you. My parents tried to get the ILs onside when I cut contact with them, and ILs just refused. My parents had their reasonable social public faces on when talking to the ILs, so couldn't do anything about it.

Start ignoring them. Don't keep texting/calling to say "stop contacting us", just ignore, ignore, ignore. Don't feed the monsters. Take the presents, unopened, to a charity shop. You don't need to thank your mum for them - you asked her not to send them, and she did - that's rude. You've said they are control freaks - they are still controlling you. So stop responding to them.

Don't feel bad about not wanting the presents - because they didn't buy the presents to make you feel happy, did they? They bought them to manipulate you, or to make themselves feel good. You don't need to be grateful for that.

If other people ask why you're not letting your parents see your dcs, be honest. "Well, they abused me as a child and I don't want to give them the chance to harm my children". That does tend to end the conversation abruptly but it works, I've done it. Or you could go for a different truth - "we invited them over constantly for years and they never ever came so we've given up" or even "it's their choice not to see us - they know what they need to do". You're allowed to say "I don't want to talk about it" too.

And remember that they could sort things out, if they chose. They know perfectly well what you want - an apology, some understanding that you and your family are human beings with feelings that are important, and some effort put into their relationship with the children. They could choose to do all that, if you mattered enough to them. They are choosing not to. You are not preventing them from having a relationship with your children - they could have it if they wanted it. This situation is not your fault.

Sorry for the long post! I've had no contact with my parents for over a year now and its sooooo lovely.

The term for people who behave like this is 'crazy-makers'. I don't know if it's a term dreamed up by americans and, frankly, I don't care, as it is enough for me that my family are crazy-makers - the term itself is helpful..

.. in the pure hell that is having a family like this. Normal rules don't apply OP, you've got to get that. They sound like they may well be addicts - and addicts are cr-a-zy to be around - re the booze. Whatever, it sounds like you are still holding out for the 'goods', still need your dad to tell you he loves you (properly, from the heart), still want him/them to respect you as a normal human being would, a normal dad. It's never going to happen.

If it was going to happen it would have happened by now. I heard an analogy that I found helpful about people like this: trying to get them to respond is like beating your fits against a door that is locked but there is a strip of light underneath to show that someone is in; beating and beating until you're bloodied, just trying to get them to open that door. They just won't OP.

I'm really hurting this christmas about my crazy-making family - same old same old same old shit, never changes. your dad and sm have taken it to new heights by ignoring your boundary and, here's the thing, it looks like you've set the boundary not firstly to protect yourself but to force them to do the decent thing re "nc until you apologise and take responsibility" . You're on a hiding to nothing with that as they will piss on it - as you have seen.

I would recommend googling 'crazy-makers' and see what comes up. I'm reading a book called 'dealing with the crazy-makers in your life' which is helpful. The one thing no book can give you though is to stop the pain of being related and needing someone who behaves like this, longing for them not to, to be even half normal. YOu have my sympathy.

Sorry, stepmum, not mum.

I don't think my post made much sense, sorry. Really hurting myself about the exact same thing and half off my head with it. Apologies.

I was going to apologise for projecting - and I think I am a bit in the previous post - but it's a blessing in disguise (if you could possibly call it a blessing ) that crazy-makers very often follow the same script. Some differences, but the general themes are exactly the same across the board. So, what my shit-awful headfuck family get up to is very similar to yours.