Issues with cutting contact and me being damned either way...

[bintofbohemia]

I've posted a lot about the mess with my father/stepmother- it goes back years but I've not really spoken to my father since he said many shit things to me a year ago including that I'd exaggerated/downright lied about a car accident my DS1 was in. Then after my half sister sent DH a birthday card with a corpse on the front the day before his father's funeral, (and my stepmother refused to accept that she was out of order and still managed to make it all my fault) I spoke to my SM and said we needed to have no contact until they can acknowledge what they've done and make some effort to sort it out. She was really arsey and said can she call me to talk about the kids presents and I said I meant NO contact. So she said fine, then proceeded to send a couple of jaunty postcards from their holiday all about what a lovely time they were having and like nothing had happened, and when she got back she called and left a message (again like nothing's happened) and will I call about Christmas. I texted back to say we'd talk about it when things are sorted. Yet again she's just riding roughshod over what we (DH and I) have asked for and yet again showing us absolutey no respect whatsoever. It took a lot to summon up the courage to have that conversation and clearly I needn't have bothered.

Then last week DH's mum called to say they turned up at hers on spec with presents for us all.

I'm so pissed off. First of all, she's totally disregarding everything that we've discussed. Secondly, she's putting poor DH's mum in an awkward position by putting her in the middle and giving her no choice about it.

If we say thanks, its contact. If we dont, we,'re rude. I look bad because I'm complaining about being bought presents and sent postcards, which sounds ridiculous and yet again putting me in the wrong. I have absolutely no idea how to handle it - they won't put any time or effort into having a relationship with any of us but continue to throw money at us twice a year. I spoke to my brother earlier who asked if I'd heard about half sister and apparently she's just lost a baby. I get the impression that he wants me to get in touch with her, but am sure that if she wanted me to know anything about it she would have told us she was pregnant, but we haven't really been in touch much for the last three years and certainly not since the corpse card. It feels like we are unable to have contact with them because of the problems it causes but not having any contact doesn't seem possible since they just do what they want to do and it feels like whatever we do we look bad.

Sorry for the ramble, I'm just a bit dazed by the whole thing and I don't really know how to handle any of it. I thought cutting contact would solve everything but it doesn't seem to have made any difference when they refuse to respect what we say. Can anyone from the outside see this a bit more clearly? I know it sounds like I'm just being really petulant (oh poor me, they've bought me presents!) but they won't spend any time trying to get things onto good terms (and haven't visited my children for a year, which really upsets my DS1) and think that throwing money/presents at us that we don't want somehow fulfills their (grand)parental obligations, IYSWIM?

What fabulous advice from all - I echo the presents to a charity shop idea. My best friend had toxic parents like this and resolved in the end to have no contact. Her parents slagged her and her DH to all and sundry - I bet, like me and all the other people they did it to, that the people your parents slag you off to are looking at them and thinking what appalling, self-justifying truly pathetic little sad acts they are. There's probably quite a few cheering you on!

It sounds to me like you're completely torn between cutting them out and wishing and hoping desperately that they'll suddenly change and become nice people. I'm afraid they won't change. They just won't. I tied myself in knots for years hoping my mother would change, pushing and pushing for some sort of signal that she actually cared about me. It was only when I became severely depressed and my psychiatric nurse said to me "Why do you do the same thing over and over when you know what the result is going to be?" that I realised how much time and energy I was wasting. I moved to another country shortly after and now I'm happier and healthier than I've been in a very long time. I still have contact with my mother but only on my terms (my situation isn't quite the same as yours). Basically I've accepted who she is and I can manage a civil relationship with her, but I'm never going to try to be close to her again. It's just too painful.

In your case, I think completely cutting contact is the way to go. And I mean completely. No wishing and hoping and waiting. It's very very hard to do that, and you might not be ready yet, but in time you need to accept that they're never going to be the people you want them to be. You need to stop worrying about how things look and about how people who don't care about you are judging you for how you behave. It's ok to cut them off, it's ok not to accept presents, it's ok to be pissed off about postcards. You're allowed to have feelings, please believe that.

Springydaffs - actually your post made a lot of sense to me I googled crazy makers and found this:

"Which is all to say that sometimes it's all right?even appropriate?to detach with love. Caring about the welfare of others doesn't by itself commit us to a lifetime of living in close proximity to them. Some people are simply too difficult for us to endure gracefully?and leaving them in some concrete fashion may sometimes be necessary for us to preserve ourselves. We may feel tremendous guilt and that we're being unfair. But we may also feel great relief to discover just how much of our stress was due to the presence in our lives of someone too toxic for us to bear."

I thought that was fairly pertinent. Sorry to hear that yours are causing you so much grief at the moment too - it would be so easy if we could just detach and switch off all the feelings as they apparently can.

Thank you everyone for all the posts - it does help to talk it all through. I think we'll just continue as we were, ignore/not acknowledge the presents, visit all the rest of the family who are ok and make sure they hear our side, and thank god that there's another 8 months before they'll try to make contact for the boys' birthdays.

I hope everyone on here with the same sort of fucked up families manage to have a lovely Christmas with real people that matter. xx

Cailin - thanks, your post really struck a chord with me, I've been in and out of depressions and had counselling/ADs/CBT to get me to this stage too. I'm so glad to hear that you had your "light bulb moment" and managed to move onwards. And you're right about cutting total contact I think. Reassuring to hear it as to the outside world it just looks like I'm being a bit petulant I'm sure, and after they've spent years painting me as someone who is slightly unstable/insignificant it's nice to hear from other people that it's not all in my head. (I mean it does sound ridiculous, doesn't it, complaining about getting presents!)

This page is quite helpful too if you can get past the horrible-to-read text.

My SM is like this:

For the most part, they believe their lies make them look good and you appear bad--which they often do. If you are not careful, they often get away with their lies. If a liar thinks you are having a great day, he/she will call you on the telephone and tell you a lie to make you feel bad. For them, there is joy in lying. Always think three times before you act on information given by a liar.

The worst thing you can have around a liar is a "loose tongue." Liars just wait for you to say things so they will have something to distort. Deal with liars by staying with the facts. State the truth as you know it. Never, ever gossip or tell them anything that you do not want repeated. Do not talk about other people, talk about things: the weather, the traffic on the way to work, the great dinner you had the night before, sports events. They will soon think of you as a bore, which is exactly what you want. Know that they will forget to whom they told a lie and will get caught up in their own plot.

My father is like this:

The "grenade" is a bomb waiting to explode. Often, a grenade is mad at the world. When grenades blow, the shrapnel hits everyone in range. They use the most explicit of terms and phrases, and they will call you every negative thing under the sun. The interesting thing about grenade toxicants is that a few hours later they will be acting "normal" or as if nothing at all happened. What they failed to realize is that the pain and suffering they have caused lingers on.
The "projectionist" toxicant sees the world from a very negative perspective. Projectionists are masters at projecting their negative thoughts into your actions. They are quick to explain you to others, tell others what your words mean, and forecast what your responses will be. The sad and dangerous side is that they are actually expressing their own beliefs, motivations, and pathology--not yours. The projectionist, with intense intent, tries to represent you.

The projectionist says, "Jane will be very angry when she hears this." The real angry person is the projectionist, not Jane. More than likely Jane had little or no emotional tie to the episode. Projectionists often project on to others what they are too afraid to say, admit, or do.

Really useful stuff.

phew, glad you're ok about it - I was feeling bad that I'd splattered my stuff all over you in my brutal post. Like I said, I'm a bit of a fruitloop at the mo with all the shit that has gone down again this christmas

Thanks for the links - very helpful. I'm at the stage though where I recognise myself in them tbh re the grenade. I don't say terrible things but I SO COULD . and I was definitely projecting with my original post. I went nc with my family for a few years but my mum (aged) got so ill and distressed with it all that I gave in and resumed contact. BIG mistake (as Julia Roberts would say..). Perhaps my lovely mum (the only sane-ish one in the whole bunch) is going to have to die of a broken heart because I can't be the martyr for this shit-awful headfuck mad toxic C-R-A-Z-Y family.

As you fucking were...

sorry about the sem-hijack btw.

oh gawd, I should just shut up really - by 'as you fucking were' I meant 'as you were' as in back to normal before my interruption, and added the 'fucking' to denote my hair-tearing-out raaaaah at the aforementioned crazy making fucking family.

I think I've made my point and I think I should maybe stop digging now. Merry Christmas OP! spend it with SANE PEOPLE!

ROFFLE! Ha, don't worry, no offence taken, I get exactly where you're coming from!

Is it not your mum that's the problem then? I suppose at least it sounds like she cares, which is something?

No she isn't the problem, she's so used to turning a blind eye (she had to to survive) and yes I guess she has gone along with it. In her day they didn't have the books/support/therapy we do now. Can you even imagine her trying to cope with the pure shit that is a crazymaker without any support ???

She's in her 80s and yesterday we had a major meltdown about it - me and her - with me screeching and banging about at some points (awful! I so wish I hadn't ) and then I worried she'd die overnight with the shock of it all. She called today and said 'I want you to tell you that you're right about this family'. Which is a bit of a gold nugget but that ol' denial is tenacious eh - though I think she really has got it (momentarily?), even though she's ancient. I would never have tried to push the point home but events transpired and there was no avoiding it. Feel terrible about it though. At one point she said "I nearly left him once you know" at which I said "I WISH YOU HAD"... before they spawned 3 more, who married 3 more and gave birth to endless more... gah!

Me? perfect

there's an extra 'you' in there somewhere. See? it's all about meeee!

oh fuck - the double post ffs.

over and OUT

god, just got to MILs and seen the card they sent us- its all Happy Christmas love M&D with £100 in it. It's REALLY pissed me off, i just feel so pissed off tht they'll throw money at us all but don't care enough to spend 20mins of actual time seeing their grandkds. I'm determined not to let it ruin our christmas but my god it's hard.

(((((Christmas Hugs))))))
It's sometimes hard to believe the people we're related to, isn't it.
You're right - don't let it spoil Christmas. You are very much loved by the people you've chosen to have in your life - the ones you can't help being related to don't matter nearly as much. xxxxJM

thank you- you are lovely. I feel like going outside and screaming but i don't think MIL would appreciate it. Will prob just hit the mulled wine instead. I knew what to expect but its really annoyed me seeing their cards to the "darling" boys with lots of love and kisses. How fucking dare they.

I don't know how some people sleep at night :(

I'll join you for a quick drink and then I have to going on our dinner. Mine's a bucket glass of white .
Bottoms up!

"get going on our dinner"
Duh. It's definitely wine o'clock.

cheers! Mulled wine ok? Pringle?

cheers! Mulled wine ok? Pringle?

Late to the thread but just another voice suggesting no contact.

It is hard to enforce at first, but you will be amazed at the RELIEF you feel and how peaceful your life can be without that tumoil.

If the cards are postmarked, return to sender.
If not, donate the money to your favourite charity, donate the presents, throw the cards in the fireplace and don't even bother to watch them burn.

After several years of no contact, my own family crazy-maker (love the term, what an apt description) still tries to torment me regularly, but I can tell you that absolutely no response from you is the most empowering thing you can do. You can't control their horrendous behaviour but you can certainly set the standards for your own life. Don't allow people in it who cause you constant angst. Life is too short.

Christmas is a tough time for this.

Merry Christmas! I hope the day was good for you all and that you had some peace. ((((bint))))

Hi Bintofbohemia,
Thank you for your thread...and to all the excellent people who posted.

I have gleened some help from this discussion and I appreciate it.

I have just reread the thread and my gut feeling is that instead of you 'toughening up' (to better endure the emotional whippings?), it might be better to think of it in terms of 'evolving' (step aside and let the crap go by).

It sounds like your parents have 'peaked' in their emotional development...as others have said: they won't change; but you can.

It is my impression that you are invisible to your parents. It is a control mechanism, as Bogeyface said. You are not a child anymore. They have never had a healthy relationship with you (and I know that hurts-I remember your other thread ) but now that you are an adult you do have power to effectively protect yourself/dh/dc from their toxic dynamics.

Setting boundaries or going No Contact is not something you should ever feel ashamed for, Bint. Truly.

Live a happy helathy life for you based on your feelings/intelligence because it is your life.

The gifts are a license to continue to use you as some kind of codependent prop to make them feel better about themselves. Gifts to gc are a box they want to check on their script because their contemporaries do it and they want to join their conversation without out-and-out lies. Just guessing.

Just say "no" ...say it to yourself, say it out loud to yourself. Silence to the parents.

Btw, Bint: it is ok to be a bitch. So many people will use our niceness and good manners to their advantage at our expense because they can. However, saying no is not really being a bitch, it is? Besides, in these circumstances, it is way beyond the issue of 'she is being rude'; you are caring for your mental health.