My DC - my rules?

[Broodzilla]

First time on here... but it seemed the most appropriate place to post (I'm by no means new to MN :) )

Just wanted some un-biased feedback, I guess. Will try to keep it as brief as poss.

I'm about to pop with DC2. It's been a complicated pregnancy, not helped by the fact that I've been signed off for weeks for contractions and threatened early labour (DS was born at 36 wks). We moved to a new area less than a year ago, and haven't really had time to build up the kind of social circle that would mean we've got anyone to drop DS with when labour starts. My DMum came over for the holidays today, and I breathed a massive sigh of relief: DS loves her, she'll be here for 3 weeks, so if/when I go into labour I don't have to worry about DS (or give birth on my own with DH looking after DS)...

And then tonight, just before bedtime, DS (who's 25 months) was overtired and in that crazed bouncing off the walls mood that toddlers can get like when they are ready to sleep - if only they would stop for 2 seconds - iykwim? He kept going to hide under the xmastree, and I asked him to come out/got him out a few times. I sat down (and as I said, am ready to pop so getting up takes forever...) and DS, of course, went back under the tree. Mum got him out. Repeat about 10 times. So, the last time he did it, she pulled him out, told him off AND slapped him on the bum. Not hard, not even a smack, but a gentle slap if there is such a thing... But still.

I told her we don't do that in our house. She was like "what?" so I repeated that we don't do slaps or anything of the sort. So she comes over to me and slaps me on the knee and asks if it hurt: of course it didn't, I could barely feel her doing it, but that's not the point.

I said, again, that we don't do that in our family. She said "but he was being naughty and it had to stop". I asked her how she'd explain to a 2-year old that HE gets told off if he slaps anyone, because it's wrong and hurts people and their feelings - but other people may slap him sometimes, and that's ok? Or that it's ok to slap someone if you're gentle enough, only he shouldn't?

In my opinion, physical punishment is a slippery slope and the line in OUR family is drawn here: we don't do it at all.

I don't want to turn this into a "I was smacked and I'm ok" thread, I really just wanted to know what people's thoughts are re: my DC, my rules?

It certainly seems my mum has taken offence as I've just come downstairs from having put DS to bed and she's gone to bed in the meantime...

Not sure that this is relevant at this time, but just so that you're aware of why exactly I see this issue as very much a black-and-white thing, and why my mum should know how I feel... I grew up with a stepdad (her H!) who had a very volatile temper and regularly attcked me physically. I'm not talking slaps or smacks, but punches and kicks.

I always swore that if I ever had DCs of my own, they'd grow up feeling loved and respected - with firm boundaries, but these would never be physically enforced.

Thank you if you've taken the time to read this...

so how where you going to stop DS ?
and why did not do so?

I see nothing wrong with very mild physical enforcement at that sort of age. Especially when a child is repeatedly playing up despite verbal instruction not to.

It's not violence in the way an adult recognises,it's a perfectly legitimate mental marker for a very young child that their behaviour is unacceptable.

However,if you don't agree with that viewpoint then yes i'd say it is your right to bring up your child the way you see fit. Tbf to your mother though she clearly didn't know that was your view on parenting.

Longjane: as I said, I used my words and action by asking DS to come out, explaining that I don't want the tree to fall on top of him AND by lifting him out and thereby removing him from the situation. I did it a few times, and then I sat down. The reason I didn't "deal" with him going back the subsequent times was because mum was standing about 3 ft away from the tree and I was sitting down about 10ft away (and as I'm heavily pregnant and struggling to move fast, DS could run a lap around the house in the time it takes me to get off the sofa).

Holyshmoley: Thank you. There are some things I can compromise on, and I understand people have different views on things, but this is not one of those.

Yes your dc your rules,

You are in the right. Everyone knows you don't smack someone else's child!

YANBU but for me and my mum, we have slightly different parenting styles and I have always accepted that when she was looking after him, she did it her way, not mine. Ds also knows the different boundaries he has with me/mum. My sis is more adamant or tries to be about mum complying with her style parenting (its not bad parenting, just different) and mum has always told her that while she is in charge of her grandkids, they abide by her rules or she will not look after them.

your kid, your rules, end of story! is outrageous if she doesn't see why you feel so strongly about it

I'm opposed to any smacking etc too, but that in't really the point. You have the right to decide how your dc are disciplined. Your dm has the right to then decide whether she's willing to look after your dc considering those rules.

By hiding under the Christmas tree your ds was placing himself in danger of being harmed if he caused it to fall on him.

So after you'd removed him the first time and he immediately did it again, why didn't you take out of the room and/or up to bed as he was, in your own words, overtired and bouncing off the walls?

Out of curiousity, when your mum lightly smacked his presumably nappied bum after he'd done it 10 more times, did he go for 11?

Yes, your DC, your rules.

I don't ever hit my child and never will. DH doesn't either. Noone will ever use physical punishment with my child. I would be furious with anyone, family or not, who did so. It is incredibly important to us and I would not stand for anyone doing it.

There is, imo, no need to hit a child. There are far more effective and better forms of discipline.

I would reiterate this with your mother again and say that you will not allow her to hit your child and she needs to respect that. If she cannot then you cannot allow her to look after him. Simple as that imo.

Completely irrelevant if he changed his behaviour after being hit. It was not her choice to make.

Besides - maybe he didn't do it because he was then scared to. Not a great reason is it?

And imo there is no difference between hitting a child or an adult. Both are not on in my books. If others chose to hit their child it is their choice I guess, but I will never agree that it is right and most definitely not for my child.

So bloody what if he did, Izzy? The OP's mother had no right to smack him.

Completely agree with Hula.

Of course there is a difference. A toddlers psychology is completely different to that of a fully grown adult.

I also don't subscribe to the theory that mild physical punishment leads a child to believe it's acceptable to physically pain their peers.

In my experience the most vile toddlers who spit and get physical with other children are those that have parents who remove the physical punishment element from their parenting arsenal.

As i say though, each to their own.

Sorry, posting on my phone so taking a while...

Thank you for all the replies, glad I'm not the only one feeling so strongly about this!

To answer a couple of questions: I didn't take DS to bed because DH had just got home and was in the shower and I knew they'd want to say hello and goodnight to each other before DS went to bed.

Also: funnily enough, after mum "disciplined" DS, yes he did go back. At that point, she also looked at me and asked "now what are you going to do". I got up, got DS out from under the tree and then distracted him with a discussion about how his teddy had fallen in a puddle before and should go in the wash first thing in the morning. After that, he didn't go back.

So - the slap didn't "work" but that's not really the issue here (even though it does also come into my reasons for not using physical punishment).

I think I will have to raise this with mum again in the morning and reiterate how important it is to me, and that if she feels unable to look after DS without resorting to physical reinforcement then she'll only hang out with him "supervised"... Which would also mean that I will go to give birth on my own and DH will stay at home to look after DS, but I'd honestly rather compromise on that than on how DS (and DC2) are treated.

I agree - your DC your rules, but you can't expect someone else to put up with an undisciplined child.

Your child and I understand your strong feelings. How about saying with another on the way you really want to be consistent and use the same behaviour techniques he is used to. You could then outline what you do instead of smacking etc. Has she any questions?

Erm... There's this old saying: When an adult hits an adult, we call it assault. When a child hits an adult, we call it aggression. When an adult hits a child, we suddenly call it discipline.

There is plenty of research to back up the view that a child should be respectfully treated and disciplined whatever the age, and that violence breeds violence. I base my parenting on that - but more importantly, as I said and as my mother well knows - I base it on having been a child myself, and having been punched, kicked, shoved etc for years, whenever I did or said something "wrong" or with the wrong attitude. I won't go into details here, but suffice to say that my "wrongs" wouldn't have even registerd for most people, yet for my step-dad they not only registerd but warranted punishment.

I learned to walk on eggshells, knowing that even that wasn't always going to be enough. I spent years basically trying to be invisible in what should've felt like my home (too). I'm in my thirties, moved out when I was still a teenager, and I still have a physical reaction to people behaving aggressively. It took me years to stop shutting down everytime DH and I have an argument.

Yes, child psychology and adult psychology are two very different things. Children are fragile and powerless, they will just have to put up with whatever circumstances they are in.

Sparks - imo there is no difference. I would no more hit my child than I would my dh or anyone else.

It isn't that long ago that hisbands used the very same excuses in order to be allowed to hit their wives to keep them in order.

Each to their own, as you say - and for me, smacking ANYONE is not for me.

I think the 'my dcs my rules' sounds great in theory but is almost impossible in practice. If you are dependent on her for child are and she insists on her own rules, where do you draw the line?

My parents have different rules from me, that they won't budge on but what do you do, not allow the dcs to be alone with gps?

What happens when they go to school and they have rules you don't agree with?

Unless you completely isolate your dcs from society you aren't going to be able to control their environment.

I agree with that to an extent, but never over someone hitting my child. For me that is a complete no no and not something I would be prepared to budge on.

Your DC, your rules.

It's especially galling to state your rules and then have them challenged

Broodzilla - if you hadn't already discussed this with your Mum (the absolutely no tapping/smacking policy you have in place for DS) then I think you need to apologise to her for upsetting her. She's not a mind reader and was only doing what she did with you and you have made her feel her parenting wasn't good enough