My DC - my rules?

[Broodzilla]

First time on here... but it seemed the most appropriate place to post (I'm by no means new to MN :) )

Just wanted some un-biased feedback, I guess. Will try to keep it as brief as poss.

I'm about to pop with DC2. It's been a complicated pregnancy, not helped by the fact that I've been signed off for weeks for contractions and threatened early labour (DS was born at 36 wks). We moved to a new area less than a year ago, and haven't really had time to build up the kind of social circle that would mean we've got anyone to drop DS with when labour starts. My DMum came over for the holidays today, and I breathed a massive sigh of relief: DS loves her, she'll be here for 3 weeks, so if/when I go into labour I don't have to worry about DS (or give birth on my own with DH looking after DS)...

And then tonight, just before bedtime, DS (who's 25 months) was overtired and in that crazed bouncing off the walls mood that toddlers can get like when they are ready to sleep - if only they would stop for 2 seconds - iykwim? He kept going to hide under the xmastree, and I asked him to come out/got him out a few times. I sat down (and as I said, am ready to pop so getting up takes forever...) and DS, of course, went back under the tree. Mum got him out. Repeat about 10 times. So, the last time he did it, she pulled him out, told him off AND slapped him on the bum. Not hard, not even a smack, but a gentle slap if there is such a thing... But still.

I told her we don't do that in our house. She was like "what?" so I repeated that we don't do slaps or anything of the sort. So she comes over to me and slaps me on the knee and asks if it hurt: of course it didn't, I could barely feel her doing it, but that's not the point.

I said, again, that we don't do that in our family. She said "but he was being naughty and it had to stop". I asked her how she'd explain to a 2-year old that HE gets told off if he slaps anyone, because it's wrong and hurts people and their feelings - but other people may slap him sometimes, and that's ok? Or that it's ok to slap someone if you're gentle enough, only he shouldn't?

In my opinion, physical punishment is a slippery slope and the line in OUR family is drawn here: we don't do it at all.

I don't want to turn this into a "I was smacked and I'm ok" thread, I really just wanted to know what people's thoughts are re: my DC, my rules?

It certainly seems my mum has taken offence as I've just come downstairs from having put DS to bed and she's gone to bed in the meantime...

Not sure that this is relevant at this time, but just so that you're aware of why exactly I see this issue as very much a black-and-white thing, and why my mum should know how I feel... I grew up with a stepdad (her H!) who had a very volatile temper and regularly attcked me physically. I'm not talking slaps or smacks, but punches and kicks.

I always swore that if I ever had DCs of my own, they'd grow up feeling loved and respected - with firm boundaries, but these would never be physically enforced.

Thank you if you've taken the time to read this...

I agree with you OP and some things are too important to compromise on. There is no way I would tolerate anyone touching my dcs and if they did they would not be allowed to have them in their care. My mil also subscribes to the harmless tap theory but I don't and so that is that, she doesn't do it to my dcs.

And currently thank goodness stuffedaubergine smacking is not permitted in schools and nurseries so I doubt the op will have to isolate her dcs

stuffed I'm not dependant on her for anything under normal circumstances, but was hoping that if I end up in labour over the next 3wks, DS would stay with her while I'm in hospital (her suggestion, too).

I can't see DS being physically disciplined in school, and if he was, I'd take issue with it (not least because it'd be illegal).

I am willing to compromise and let go on the whole (he's in full time daycare while I'm at work for example) but I will absolutely not tolerate anyone raising a hand to my child - that is one aspect of his environment that I CAN control (until he's old enough to dealt with stuff himself) surely?

I also don't think the OP was asking for advice to discipline her dc so I fail to see why some posters seem to think she does not have her ds under her control. Some of these comments are out of order imo. She seems perfectly able to deal with him. Every kid plays up from time to time and she dealt with it in the end.

YANBU - your DC, your rules, end of and your mum needs to respect that.

Chipping: actually, my mum never physically disciplined me, so she didn't "just do what she's done to me" nor would I have ever thought that she'd do it to DS!

He's not badly behaved at all, he often gets comments about how well he behaves... On this occasion, as on other occasions if he's too tired to control himself, he didn't behave perfectly, but it's not like he's allowed to run riot at home or elsewhere.

Physical discipline is not the only form of discipline, we do have rules and boundaries in our house but they are enforced by other means.

helpmabob: thank you, I was beginning to wonder if I've not expressed my parenting clearly enough...

This thread will only ever go one one way...

Those that find it acceptable and those that don't.

What i would say is those that cannot define between punching and kicking and smacking of a 2 year old child are misguided imo.

And that's all it is, my opinion. I have a perfectly adjusted 7 year old daughter who i haven't needed to discipline in such a way for years.

Whereas the parents who quite vocally denounced such parenting methods years ago as "evil" and "barbaric" now have a socially inept child who quite frankly fails to interact with his peers.

I know which child i'd rather have. I can only speak on personal experience though.

Normally when it comes to children, I'm very happy to allow others to reasonably discipline mine. Sometimes when a situation needs to be diffused for whatever reason, a non-parental voice works beautifully.

That said, there is no wiggle room for me when it comes to physical punishment, so your mum is absolutely wrong, and she would not be allowed to be alone with my children if I thought they would be physically reprimanded.

You need to give your mum an alternative, another way to feel she is having an effect. Work out something with her, like a naughty step / spot and counting out time, or a 'say sorry' or a 'leave the room', whatever works for you, him and your mother. You don't need the stress of a parenting dispute right now.

I think you are absolutely within your rights to decide how your child is disciplined.
I think you have made your point to your mum very clearly and she was perhaps embarrassed and felt the need to justify herself.
If I was you I would leave it alone and not raise it again. Obviously if it was to happen again then that would be a major issue but bringing it up again may antagonise your dm unnecessarily.
As for giving birth on your own - forgive me for saying it but I think that is a little melodramatic and unnecessary.
Good luck with the baby.

In general, I don't agree with 'my DC, my rules'...I'm more of a subscriber to 'my responsibility, my rules'. If I'm responsible for someone else's child, I expect them to stick to my rules and if someone else is looking after my DC then I'm happy for them to follow that person's rules.

It's never acceptable to physically chastise someone else's child though, especially as it's illegal (reasonable chastisement defence against an assault allegation can only be used by the child's parent). My parents did tap me as a form of discipline, but they would never tap my DC.

Sparks I've never tapped or smacked my DC, and they are very adept socially and have no problem relating to their peers...they are also capable of answering a question without insulting the person who asked it, something you seem to struggle with.

Likewise Sparks - I have a perfectly adjusted, polite, happy, well behaved 9 year old child who I have never had to discipline physically ever.

If you are happy to discipline your child in this way,f air enough. I am not and nothing will change my opinion on this.

But I can honestly say that I have never felt the need to physiclaly discipline my child. I have disciplined her yes. But never in this way. I have not fel the need to. She is most definitely not socially inept. We have had positive comments on her behaviour many a time.

And yes, I also know which child I would like to have - my own, thank you.

This is not a smacking debate so I wont bother debating it with anyone.

All I will say is, whether your child should or should not have been smacked, you are parent and your rules go.

ballstoit

It's not illegal at all so don't talk complete tosh. Every case is judged on it's merits. If your insulted by the truth of life i suggest you're generally going to be disappointed.

Good for you. But i fail to see why someone should impose on me or my partner how i perfectly legally bring my child up.

The only struggle i have is with some people who fail to accept there are different ways to bring up a child. Parental closed mind = closed child's mind..

Broodzilla how do you know whether your Mum did to you what she did to your DS or not - you wouldn't remember it. It is highly unlikely she'd have done that to your DS unless it's how she delt with you. If you have discussed this with her then surely you would have said how you feel about it??

He had gone under the tree at least 15 times - that is not my definition of 'well behaved' or of you 'being in control of the situation'. Whether he's generally allowed to run riot at home or elsewhere isn't the issue - the fact is that he was running riot and not doing as he was told. Someone had to deal with it - you weren't. Did you expect your Mum to just keep hauling him out from under the tree all night?

I never said physical discipline was the only form of discipline - so don't imply I did.

we do have rules and boundaries in our house but they are enforced by other means

Really? So at what point do you put those in place - after the 20th time he does something he was told not to?

Sparks - I think the main objection to your posts is the fact that you seem to think that everyone who doesn't hit their child is raising some kind of ill-disciplined hoodlum, while you simultaneously pretend to say "but each to their own".

I don't think you need to give birth on your own and I'm sure your DS will be fine with your mum. She didn't know your rules and sounds like she was more surprised to be pulled up on it than anything else.

I would however mention it again, mainly to put your mind at rest, and tell her what you would do when he is being difficult (and were perhaps a bit to tired to carry out fully with the x-mas tree) and reiterate that you have a no smacking rule and what your alternatives are.

My parents and PIL care for my DD, both DH and I were smacked, but if they smacked her I would be furious as we have decided not to...I also know if they did do it, I would tell them that wasn't acceptable and they would accept this. I think there is a limit to when GP look after them it's their rules, particularly if they've done something you fundamentally disagree with.

Please explain why your mother had to put up with your DC being a pain?

Your DC, your rules, especially for something as important as this. And with the history of physical abuse from your SF, your DM should be sensitive to this.

And I can't articulate why but I'm uncomfortable with your DM slapping you on the leg.

I agree she shouldn't have smacked your child

But bloody hell it's going to be a long 3 weeks for her...it'd drive me mad living with a toddler ruling the roost like that.

I don't know what to suggest really

Clearly the OP does allow her child to overstep boundaries, because once you tell a child no you should not have to constantly repeat yourself.

He should have been removed from the room and put to bed, if that meant no goodnights and hello's from his dad so be it because he was naughty.

You should not have had to keep removing him, he should have listened the first time.

My DP and I have this discussion a lot. We where both smacked as children him to a lesser extent, me to more of an extreme extent.

I can not get my head around smacking. I don't wish my children to be smacked and I would be furious if my parents smacked them. I had a conversation with my dad before about this and he agreed with smacking and said as he would be my only real child care option I would have to like it or lump it under his care, his rules. I told him I would lump it then and if he ever raised a hand towards my child it would be the last time he saw them.

Harsh maybe but his attitude really annoyed me. I feel very strongly about no smacking. I remember "that feeling" before you where going to get a belt and I never want my children to feel that. ever.

OP - without sounding rude it does seem like DS is testing boundaries, and perhaps he needs a bit more of a punishment routine that is consistent. My niece responds well to a warning, a "won't tell you again" warning and then removal from whatever it is/time out etc. She is of a similiar age. Would that maybe work? I think you need to try and find a solution where Mum is able to discpline in way you're happy with but also an effective way if she is going to be main carer for a couple of days/week.

Thank you all for your replies, lots of food for thought.
I think I'll try not to raise the subject with DM again - I made my point, she's just got here and I don't want to cause an atmosphere for the holidays.

Having said that, should it (or anything like it) happen again, that'll be a deal-breaker and DCs will not be spending time alone with her.

To those who wonder why I'd expect my DM to "put up/deal" with this in the first place or who feel my DS "rules the roost":

DS, on the whole, is a very well behaved, sweet and thoughtful child. He had a day of doing things on grown-up terms, which included sitting in the car for hours, and he had not really had much chance of letting off any steam. Despite this, we'd attended a public event earlier where he sat impeccably still and quiet for nearly an hour: I'd been very proud of him and his behaviour up until the xmas tree situation.

Under normal circumstances, I'd deal with my own child, and I'd nip any naughty behaviour in the bud (preferably by directing DS to do something more appropriate like engaging him in a game of hide-and-seek if I thought that's what he needed, or simply whsking him out of the room...) but as I did say originally, I'm pretty much physically out-of-action at the moment. I am not capable of moving very fast, and I am on dr's orders to take it easy and not do things like heavy lifting (this would include removing a toddler from underneath a tree...).

Under normal circumstances, I wouldn't dream of asking someone else to get me a drink because I'm thirsty, or of leaving a heavy bag in the car until DH gets home - I'm not a princess! But at the moment, that is exactly the kind of thing I'll do. If that makes me a bad/lazy mother (and wife) then that's what I am, right now.

However, I really wanted to know other people's thoughts on my DM slapping my DS, especially as she seemed to feel she did nothing wrong and then went to bed without discussing it further or saying goodnight. You have given me lots to think about and I feel much less confused (and much less inclined to go and give birth alone! :) ) so thank you!

SparksThe law states that parents may use physical discipline as 'reasonable chastisement'. The Op's DM is not the child's parent, and cannot legally physically chastise her GS. DSS's Stepdad has been cautioned as he wrongly believed that he was able to act as their parent would if he was caring for them, and that's not the case.