I just need to put my head down and get on with it, don't I?

[latrucha]

Help me think this through, will you?

DH and I have been married four years. He is from another country, we live in Wales far away from any of my family, so we are quite isolated. I am a SAHM. DH has a professional job (don't want to out myself too much).

In the four years since we got married, DH has got a new job, we have had two children, I have had a very serious illness and both my parents have died.

It has now been a year since my Dad died (my mum died in 2008). In that year I have functioned well enough. The children are clean, fed, hugged played with. The house is clean enough. Finances are on track. I haven't gone off the rails at all.

I have been quiet, withdrawn, not as patient as I might be. DH has been somewhat neglected. He has helped me alot practically speaking: juggling work so I can go to bereavement counselling, getting up eary with the children so I can sleep a bit more (I do all the night wakings) etc...

He has also tried to help me emotionally but it hasn't been a great success. I think he feels a bit hurt that I can talk to a counsellor but not to him. The problem with talking to him is that he wants to fix things, interpret them, tell me whet's what. It's not really what I need.

He is a very hard-working man, to the point that it has been a problem between us. We have an agreement where he has to be at home at the weekends to see the children. Until recently, that meant that he came home after they were in bed, around 7 and we spent the evenings together. He has been really good at keepig weekends for the children.

Recently, however, he has been coming home later and later and when he does, he chats for 5 minutes, grabs something to eat standing up and dives behind his computer. He is also going to work after the children have gone to bed at the weekend quite frequently.

He is working to get a promotion, which realistically will make a big difference to us. He works extremely hard. Whether there will be a promotion available at all is doubtful though. He makes it clear that this is what he has to do for me and the children but I also know he really wants to mkae a reputation for himself and be at the forefront of his field. It's clear that he could do this.

Lately, conversation is minimal. I find it hard to engage him in any of the details of mine or the children's lives which makes me feel awful as it is my LIFE ffs. If he talks, it is always about work. he hardly smiles with me. H does with the children and with colleagues and friends when I hear him on the phone.

When challenged he says he is behaving as I have behaved for the last year, and what do I expect. He is incredibly tired through getting up with the children (but he doesn't have to work until 1am every night does he?) and through working. He lists all the things he has done for me. There is clearly a lot of resentment under the surface. He is also coming to the end of a very high-pressure part of his work and coming up to a slightly easier bit so things could improve just naturally.

From my point of view, I have carried on reasonably well under very difficult circumstances. I have done my best even if it falls far short of ideal. Just as things are becoming clearer to me and I am feeling a little more free, I feel he has given up on me. I feel very lonely and I don't know where to go from here. I do feel that the less I say the better it will be. If I say anything we will argue, I know. I feel that the only thing to do is carry on trying to be friendly and make things nice and one day things will seem a bit closer. I just have to keep my head down, carry on and hope for better things, don't I?

Sorry it's so long. I wanted to make things clear.

OK, being a SAHM is tough, if nothing else for the stimulation and conversation input!

I get why he's a bit miffed about the counsellor, but you can't really talk to a H about the stuff you talk to a counsellor about. The therapy is a professional arrangement, not an intimate one.

I understand that he is working toward a goal and that is admirable, but is there a way that he could manage a date night with you once a week, or every other week? Could you even manage to have a date night at home, rent a film, have a nice meal/takeaway even and just chill out together?

If you DID open up to him a little and say to him that you are feeling lonely and that you miss him, and want to be closer, how do you think he'd react? Given his therapy comment, perhaps he'd be open to it? Perhaps HE is feeling the same as you? you never know.

Hugs, i know it's hard.

It sounds like you don't engage with him either "when he talks it's always about work" seems quite dismissive - is that fair or am I way off? Sounds like you need to take time out together to get to know one another again.

I'm so sorry you've gone through all that in such a short time. No wonder you're struggling now. Is your own health alright now?

I think I can see it from both sides. You have had a terrible time, no doubt about it. To lose both parents in quick succession and to have a serious illness yourself must really take it out of you. It's no wonder that you have turned inwards and have to concentrate on yourself.

From his point of view, though, he might feel as though he's lost the woman he fell in love with and married. Everything's been so serious for the last few years, hasn't it? You say he hardly smiles at you - I found that really sad, for you and for him. I wondered whether you were lighthearted and smiley with him or whether you hoped he would cheer you up.

He sounds like a good bloke, albeit one who works too hard. I can understand that he wants to make a reputation for himself, but it does come at a cost to the family.

Can I just ask something - I don't want to make matters worse. When he goes onto his computer are you certain he's working? When he goes to work in the evenings/weekends are you sure he's there? Have you phoned him at work? Do other people go to work at the weekend/late at night?

It's always really hard not to let relationships suffer when outside events conspire against you. I can understand his point of view about the bereavement counselling - if he feels you can't talk to him, he must feel sad about that. I can see your point of view - experts know what they're doing, but they can't replace a loving partner.

Thanks for your responses.

I don't really feel like anyone is to blame. He is a really good person (and I really don't believe he would be cheating. I know exactly which work he is doing as I proof read a lot of it and I know what he has to do. He is also a Catholic and very strict on these things. And very disciplined.)

I do feel that someone needs to introduce us and for us to go on a first date. I'm sure he feels he has lost the woman he married. I feel like I'm losing him too now. It's just not possible is it? We are where we are and we have to get out of it.

We both made more of an effort on Saturday. We watched a film and we had a really nice cuddle after it. Sunday was a bit business as usual so I consciously made an effort to ask about work and be cheery etc. At one point he assumed it was because I wanted him to do something for me . It didn't do a lot of good but it did no harm either. Then he had a phone call from his best friend who is in France and they chatted and chatted for hours and hours. I just went to bed feeling a bit crap.

I think I'll just carry on making an effort and trying to see things from his point of view and hopefully we'll get back to where we were even six weeks ago and we can take it from there. I'll try and be a bit more open with him but he has a very short temper and is quite suspicious that I might be complaining (which in fairness I usally am NOT).

He did offer to work all night (which he adores doing and hates that it doesn't fit in with family life) and sleep in the day over the Christmas holiday so that I didn't have to look after the children in the night and could have a nice time with my brother. He thought it was a genuinely nice offer. I was horrified at him discussing his WORK schedule over Christmas and in such a way that we wouldn't see each other at all. That conversation didn't go well.

Gosh what a horrible few years for both of you. I have not been faced with such trauma in my life yet and can only imagine how hard it must have been. My mum went through similar issues when she was in her late 30s (death of both parents within a year, relocation to a completely different part of the country with dad's work and a new baby) and I know she found it incredibly hard. Such times really test a relationship, certainly the 'for worse' bit....
I think men sometimes retreat into work when things are not easy at home, my DH certainly does. It gives them a control or power in one part of their life when it has been lost in another, even through no fault of anyones.
Not sure what to suggest other than to keep plugging away. I think you are right in a way that you need to put your head down and keep going. As your emotional energy returns you can plough some of it back into your relationship. Marriage is tough and will go through difficult periods and this must surely count as a very difficult one!

Does he work for himself, OP?

What I really want to avid is that the fall-out from a very difficult period becomes the norm in our marriage.

No he's a lecturer (hard to explain without coming clean about what he does) so he has his teaching and admin duties and then his research, in which he can make a name for himself There's a basic minimum of research they have to do and the rest is up to them.

He does alot. Way alot. (I used to be a lecturer too so I know!)

Yes, of course.

Is there any way you two could spend some time together - even going out for lunch together?

You need to start to have a bit of fun. It must have upset you that he was chatting away happily to his friend on the phone, but isn't like that with you. It's so hard, isn't it?

Before you had the children, what sort of things did you do together that made you happy?

He must miss the old situation, mustn't he? Can you talk to him about all this?

to be blunt, sex, food, films but mainly sex.

I'd like to do that again and so would he. I just is hard when soemone is exhausted, withdrawn, under pressure and sitting behind a computer. And we're both like that.

I don't know how to talk to him about it. We had a bit of a spat a little while ago. I can't even remember about what, but I said something like, 'At least we could start to recognise what's going on between us,' and he got very cross, saying, 'What do you mean? What's going on between us?' I said something like, 'Do you think this is normal?' and retreated.

OK let's get practical.

What time do the children go to bed?

What time would your husband's colleagues leave work? What time does he? Do you think he's avoiding the children's bathtime/bedtime?

What time do you want to go to bed?

What time does he want to go to bed?

If he's a lecturer, he doesn't HAVE to be in work for two or three weeks now, does he? I'm a lecturer in a sixth form and we get two weeks off - other institutions have longer. I doubt if many staff are at work over the Christmas holidays, though I accept they may work at home.

I think for your own sanity you need to get some outside interests.

Are there any courses you fancy doing?
Is there a book club near you?
Do you fancy going to a yoga class?

You are spending all of your time within your family and it's not always such a good idea.

I think so too. I'm thinking that some New Year's resolutions are

• the rest of the baby weight off so I feel more attractive
• get my head down as I used to to learn DHs language
• go to a film occasionally (DH has offered for me to go on my own or with a friend. Going together seems a bridge too far for him! He is very against leaving the children).

The children go to bed around 6.30. They get up around 5. I go to bed around 10. DS is teething ATM and wakes a lot, then wakes DD and as DH has offered to get up early, I like to make the most of the offer Seems a bit insulting to his efforts to go to bed late. DH likes to go to bed around 1AM

DH will basically be working, I'm afraid. He's working all ntil Thursday at work and then preparing for a big research group think on the 8th of January.

So your husband goes to bed at 1 am and gets up at 5?

Would he be amenable to Saturday nights being free of work - you watch a film together and eat a good meal (even if it's a bought one) and have a bottle of wine?

How does he think others manage to go out when their children are small? Would he trust a friend to babysit, if you did the same in return?

Do you have many friends where you live?

Yup. It's nuts.

We talked about it this morning. He says that if he has dinner he has to stay up this late to digest it. He does have real trouble in this regard. He says he has to have dinner as he only has a sandwich at work. I try to make him something he can digest easily like soup but he doesnt fancy it at the moment. He wants something solid as he is so tired. Essentially though he is a night owl and likes it.

I think I'm going to have to go to bed at 9 and get up with the children quite soon but it is difficult to ook after them all day, deal with night wakings, put them to bed and then go to bed early. And it won't help with DH.

OK, I don't agree with him that you two can never go out alone, but given that's the case, why don't you have a film night once a week for you and him? One of you can choose the film each week.

Also have a 'nice' meal one night a week and a bottle of wine and an agreement that he doesn't work that night. He can talk to you about work, but he can't go and do it.

But as for you, I think you need to go out at least once a week on your own. Whether that's to a gym or a class, it doesn't matter, but try to choose something where people talk about adult things. He should stay home with the children, then. Try to choose something that would involve him putting them to bed.

Quite a lot of issues in your post, but it does seem solvable.
Can you agree just one night a week that you do the film, sofa bit? Then build on that, say a date once a fortnight.
If you have money for a babysitter or yoga with a creche do that one day a week.
Burying yourself in work is a very common reaction to things being hard at home and if he is establishing an academic career he probably does need to push himself to get on the next rung.
How long have you had individual counselling? Perhaps talk to the counsellor or see if you and he can agree to set a date for couples counselling?
Is there a family member who he would trust to babysit?
Sounds as if you are having trouble reconnected as a couple with children, rather than just a couple.

The thing that you both need to know is that you are there for each other and that you love each other. That is really difficult if you don't spend much time together.

I think he should come home earlier at least a couple of times in the week. It's not fair on the children if they don't see him in the evening. Would he agree to doing this on Tuesdays and Thursdays?

He's eating late because he's home late. I would be frustrated with him over that. If he ate at 6pm then he could go to bed at 11 pm. He's making it hard for himself.

He is obviously a caring man in many ways, but he really needs to open his eyes to the impact his career is having on his family.

I think it's a good plan, although I'll have to do it ad hoc, I think. If I tried to introduce it as a plan, it would become 'business' for him IYSWIM (he does love to work) and no fun. Or a threat that something is wrong and needs fixing, which doesn't go down well with him.

your husband s spending far too much time working/preparing for work
i can sympathise so did my dad- with the same goal-promotion and better for the family in the long run.
hes now 67 and burnt out.
he had to retire at 55 he worked so hard he was just spent.

all i remember is him never being there, sleeping and we had to be quiet, my mum crying and them arguing .
he wasnt as driven as your dh but it was all about the money.
we have 4 dc , i am a stay at home mum and my dh works a lot too.
weve set rules- sat night we have darts night(at home)and a pizza/drink.
kids are not allowed downstairs after 9(that gives us an hr before bed to chat)

He sounds like he is consumed with working in a very unhealthy way. It might be that he's clinging to work as it's where he feels in control and powerful, whereas at home he feels helpless because things have been so difficult lately. It seems like you both have had such a tough time that you're exhausted and feel like you're on a treadmill that won't turn off. Something has to change pretty soon or one of you is going to end up ill (again). No one should be working as hard as your DH is, it's just not sustainable. Could you get him to agree to have at least three days off over Christmas? If he says no to that then you have take him to task - a married man with children can't just ignore his family in favour work, especially not over Christmas.