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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

change in the law on abusive relationships

44 replies

rotool · 14/12/2011 15:56

I caught the end of a discussion on radio 2 today, it was about the law being changed where a person can be prosecuted for being emotionally abusive in a relationship. Did anyone hear it and know what else was said?

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makeyerowndamndinner · 14/12/2011 16:04

I didn't hear the radio discussion but there was talk of this in work today. Both men and women will now be liable for prosecution if they emotionally abuse their partners.

It will be interesting to see what the law will constitute as emotional abuse and what the burden of proof will be.

However generally I think this is a positive move in the right direction. The effects of emotional abuse can be absolutely devastating - in fact many women who have also been physically abused state that the emotional abuse takes far longer to recover from.

So its a case of watch this space I guess. We'll see.

TakenForAMug · 14/12/2011 16:07

I listened to the phone in about this on radio 5 earlier and there was a MNer who phoned in. If you're reading, you did really well!

Original poster
rotool · 14/12/2011 16:08

Has the law changed already or is it going to change in the future?
I am in a very emotionally abusive relationship and the news of changed has made my day,not because I want my DP prosecuted but it feels like people believe it happens if you get my meaning.

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Thistledew · 14/12/2011 16:10

I am all in favour of anything that supports victims of domestic violence, but I can't see how on earth you would make this workable.

Too many abusers are expert manipulators, who like to put themselves in the role of the victim. I could see a threat of bringing a prosecution being used as just another weapon to ensure that the real victim continue to walk on egg shells and does nothing to challenge the real abuse.

silentcatastrophe · 14/12/2011 16:39

The English are such dinosaurs when it comes to rape and abuse.

Sparks1 · 14/12/2011 16:44

What the burden of proof will be

It'll be the same as in all criminal law.

Beyond all reasonable doubt.

OldeChestnut · 14/12/2011 16:47

there was a very sad phone in on radio 5 this morning. a man said his wife was physically/mentally abusing him and his small son, but he was too frightened to leave or contact the police because he knew he wouldnt be believed, the child would be left with her and she was incredibly clever about manipulating the situation.

Very very sad

GossipWitch · 14/12/2011 16:55

Yay!! there is such thing as emotional abuse and now its being recognised as an actual form of abuse. I truly hope victims will feel more able to come forward now :).

Sparks1 · 14/12/2011 17:01

I'd say the main worry is the CPS.

A lot of cases don't go to court because of lack of credible evidence. I can't see how a lot of emotional abuse can be evidenced. It's part of the reason a lot of rape cases fail.

singingprincess · 14/12/2011 17:12

I do think that there is such an increase in specialist knowledge in this area, and abuse is so repetitive and "narrow" in it's pathology, that, with expert evidence and "papertrails" created by gp's midwives, HV's, as well as police and social services, children's services and charities like Women's Aid, it would be possible to put a solid case together.

Maybe a change in the law would be in tandem with more support for services for women, and also for perpetrator programmes, which are MASSIVELY underfunded, and into more psychological research into the pathology that these very sick people share, and if unchecked, pass onto the next generation.

The most important thing about today, and the coverage this subject has received, is that it begins to remove the taboo, and lifts the lid on the reality for so many people.

Some of the comments left by "people" on the articles in, for example the Daily Mail (Rolls eyes) were horrific in their misogyny and abusiveness.

Some men still see it as perfectly acceptable to treat women in this way.

Sparks1 · 14/12/2011 17:17

As do some women towards men. Emotional abuse is far from limited to being perpetrated by males.

singingprincess · 14/12/2011 17:25

Don't I know it...I was set up for a lifetime of abuse by my mother. She was/is highly abusive.

80% of abusers have personality disorders...Forgive me, I can't remember the source for that statistic, but it underlines the need for psychiatric, specialist help for these people who verbally, psychologically and ultimately physically abuse others.

IWantWine · 14/12/2011 17:26

Just to give hope to someone who might be suffering....

My 'D'H was hurling abuse at me through the bedroom door, unaware that I had a police woman on my mobile phone, listening to him! :) That helped my case a lot! It wasnt that I had planned to call the police, the officer just happened to call me at the right time to check up on me.

So it might be worth keeping a phone handy to either call someone who can act as a witness, or call the police!

CailinDana · 14/12/2011 17:35

This is great news. If nothing else it will send the message to both victims and perpetrators that this kind of abuse is unacceptable. It'll hopefully also lead to victims being believed and feeling like people will support them.

Rotool, do you want to talk about what's going on with you?

makeyerowndamndinner · 14/12/2011 17:46

I didn't mean it like that Sparks. I was referring to how difficult it would be to prove emotional abuse beyond all reasonable doubt.

NettleTea · 14/12/2011 18:35

I think its brilliant news tbh. I know the MNer who rung 5 live and am fantastically proud of her. Even if only a handful of men (or indeed women) get prosecuted it blows the lid off what is an insiduous crime and horrendously underestimated and shoved under the carpet. To put a name to it, to identify it in public, to spell it out in simple terms so that women who are in the middle of it might get a glimpse of what is 'abuse', it can only be a good thing. Its really difficult to explain to anyone who hasnt been through it, and society, whether we like it or not, colludes with abuse so fundamentally that any publicity is great, and the more open discussion and people like 'Susie' who eloquently put into words the living hell they were forced to live in, the more people will understand and not tolerate this kind of behaviour.
The other good things were that the laws are not only in relation to husband/wife situations, they also related to other family members (so mothers!) and also manipulation of children by spouses. in addition they are looking at the abuse of the under 18s as they are realising the implications of today's society and the effect it is having on young peoples relationships. I'm pretty open minded and 'live and let live'/free choice BUT when we live in a society which has exposed its young people to so much stuff which reinforces many of the behaviours seen relating to abuse (ie sexualisation of girls/lads mags/misogynistic music films/lots of pretty nasty porn all available to young teens/preteens) then we shouldnt be surprised when they act this way. Theres very little esteem-raising stuff for girls out there - most of it is based on aspiring to the fashion photoshopped standards, to be arm candy for some violent football thug, to 'get famous' by surgically enhancing your body and taking your clothes off.....

sorry, Ill get off my high horse now.....

BUT I think this proposed law is a campaign that MN should get behind 110%, especially as this board on MN has often been quoted as a life saver. It would be interesting to get statistics as to how many women have been helped to get out of these relationships thanks to the support of MN posters

singingprincess · 14/12/2011 19:00

I agree....mumsnet should, very definitely, should make it a campaign. The Relationships board has a new thread or two virtually every day.

VIRTUALLY EVERY DAY!

It has taken me and others I know, years of personal research to try and work out, what the hell was going on in my marriage, and the societal collusion is a massive part of the problem!

If people knew....such things like a list of "red flags" for example....and if boys were encouraged to FEEL their feelings from a young age, instead of creating these masculine fantasies of "perfection", once again...perpetrated by the media....then that would start to address the tip of this massive iceberg.

singingprincess · 14/12/2011 19:04

To add:

My H has been on the waiting list for a perp programme for four months now. The funding has been cut.
Regardless of whether his motivation is worthy or merely more manipulation, cutting the funding is insane! Domestic abuse costs this country a massive amount, FAR more than perp programmes (and properly funded mental health services)...figures are available on the WA website.

Original poster
rotool · 14/12/2011 19:33

CailinDana, I would like to talk

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NettleTea · 14/12/2011 20:07

please do talk. Talking is the first step.

HoudiniHissy · 14/12/2011 20:08

rotool, we are ALL here, and are all here to help. What's going on with you love?

Remember that nothing you say will shock us. We can take it. Please don't be scared?

Original poster
rotool · 14/12/2011 20:19

I am in a horrible relationship and I just can't get out of it. He controls everything I do,who my friends are,when I see my family,is nasty to me in front of the kids but makes it look like the reverse. He is very clever and tried to make me doubt myself all the time. He doesn't talk to me for days on end,doesn't tell me what he is working,when he is coming home,takes all my wages and expects me to do everything in the house and all childcare like it is my duty. I am so unhappy and I know I need to leave but I can't.

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HoudiniHissy · 14/12/2011 20:26

You can leave. You really can. Anyone can

It all boils down to when you are ready to do so. When you feel more confident, and when you realise that you have really only the one option and that is to get your children and yourself out, you will do it.

You need to contact Woman's Aid. You need to speak to your GP and your HV.

Are you married? Do you own the house?

Believe me, he's not clever, he's just convinced you he is. If he were that clever, he'd let you be YOU.

WRT your money, he is also financially abusing you too. can you say your wages have been cut, or that they have to be paid into a bank account? and then you will transfer the money? You need to save up some money ideally.

You will get out. We'll be here as long as you need us to. However long it takes.

Is he ever physical? does he hit you or the DC?

Original poster
rotool · 14/12/2011 20:30

He has hit/smacked dc's and goes mad if I go to them but never me.
I do own the house with him but we are not married and due to the house having an agricultural condition on it I cannot live here without him.
The money issue is impossible, I can't explain how he does it but he just is in cntrl of everything. If I try to keep any money he will be even worse than normal for weeks at a time,I have to do what he says as he will make my life hell if I don't. My doctor knows all about my situation as I am on anti-d's.

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Original poster
rotool · 14/12/2011 20:35

How do you start again with nothing, I have money in the house so I guess I will get that eventually but it all seems so hard at the moment. The anti-d's help to cope but they kinds make you numb at the same time and I don't have the guts to come off them or leave him,sometimes I think if I don't help myself then maybe I deserve to have him treat me the way he does.

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