I am sad.

[BertieBotts]

I've been feeling a bit weird over the last 2-3 weeks, brain full of cotton wool feeling, finding it hard to concentrate or empathise, generally feeling up and down (but more down, TBH) and DP has been irritating me constantly over little things which never bothered me that much before, and I keep being mean to him :( and I don't know why and I don't realise I'm doing it until immediately afterwards and then I don't say anything because I feel too ashamed. I've been meaning to bring it up.

So I've been unsure about whether there is actually something about him which I don't like and it's just that moving in has made that part more obvious, or whether it's just me, being weird and reacting badly and it will pass, or maybe it's just that he did move in too soon and I needed some more time and space. But wanted to get it straight in my own head before I talked to him.

But then last night he asked if I wanted to come and have a cuddle/chat on the sofa and I would have done 5-10 minutes before, because I was bored, but I'd just started talking to someone, so I got frustrated that he hadn't read my mind and asked before () and then I can't remember how the conversation came round to it but I said "I think I love you" and then it of course started a big major conversation and now I'm even more confused and upset.

He said that I don't have to love him, but that (obviously) he doesn't want to be together if I don't, but if I need some time to work it out that's fine. And that he is happy and he loves me and he wants me to be happy. We talked about him maybe moving out (but staying together) because I felt that it was too soon when he did move in, in some ways it's been great, but in others I've felt really stifled, and it's not the fact that he would object or whatever to stuff that I want to do but that I feel I should keep my "real self" hidden in case he didn't like it or thought it was weird. I'm struggling massively with this and I know it's my issue to deal with, I just don't really know how. He is such a sorted person and seems to know exactly who he is and never has any doubts or agonise over which is the right decision to make. He just knows what he wants and who he is and goes with it, and it makes me feel really chaotic and like a complete mess of a person who just stumbles along and worries constantly about stuff and is always behind and forgetful.

And anyway, by the end of the conversation I was feeling a bit better and like perhaps the irritations were things we could get over and like it was going to be okay, but I'm doubting again, he said this morning, don't think about it, just, what do you feel? What's the immediate, instinctive reaction to a simple question? And my feeling, the gut, immediate feeling is that I love him, but that's the part that I'm doubting. How do you know if your heart is right?

(I have to go to a party, so I'll be out for a bit, but I needed to post before I chickened out, so I'll be back later.)

You sound like Bridget Jones and Mark Darcy. I'm not mocking with that - it just rings a lot of bells. You might find that it takes a while to settle into living together. I cried like a baby when I sold my lovely flat and moved into my then-boyfriend's hovel house. I also roared at him like a lion when we had builders in and there was no heating or water (seriously, like a lion - no words, just roaring) because I was so frustrated with the disruption to my space.

If you do love him, it will settle down and feel right; if you don't, it won't. Just give yourself a bit of time. Meanwhile, try to treat him nicely. The meaner and grumpier you are, the meaner and grumpier you'll want to be and the worse you'll feel about yourself.

Good luck, however it turns out.

Bertie love, I have seen you on so many threads around these parts, being so helpful with others, and you so often have so many wise words for others.

Forgive me if I have got wrong end of stick, but do you have abuse in your background?

If so, this is a perfect reason for you to be a little jumpy. Regardless of this, You are not being yourself. You need to have the confidence to be YOU.

How can he love someone who is trying not to be herself? That always goes wrong, it's forced and it's agony for you.

Deep breath girl and start to relax, let yourself be who you really are. It'll make YOUR life easier, it'll be easier for you to breathe.

Relax. If it's meant to be it will be, but you are potentially sabotaging it by not being yourself...

You sound like me... Any chance you could just relax and see how it goes?

Have never read/seen Bridget Jones so the reference is lost on me, sorry :) Good to hear others have found it an emotional time though.

Yes Hissy I do - and we only got together 10 months after I left abusive XP as well. It was very slow moving at first and it has ALWAYS been on my terms, though I felt the moving in was a bit rushed, his mum had just had a stroke and everyone was a bit in shock really. We had a big conversation too when we first got together about always being able to talk and bring stuff up even if it was minor, and I felt like I was able to be myself with him in a way I never had with anyone else. I guess old habits die hard??

I think as well that although I know I have issues from the abuse I don't want to make them into his problem - it's my thing to work through. I have kept wanting to go to GPs to see if I can be referred for some other kind of therapy, have had counselling before but not much help. Although TBH I think counselling might help now if only to prevent me building stuff up, just letting me ramble on etc.

I've been really upset about it today though :( I walked out of card factory in tears because the queue was too long and then cried for about 10 minutes because DS said "But I liked that animals card."

Feel a bit calmer after talking to DP again though. :) My emotions are so up and down and I'm acting so out of character it's making me wonder if I'm pregnant or something though perhaps just a build up of this kind of stuff.

Bertie you always come across as having your head screwed on the right way round, so don't dismiss your feelings.

It is emotional being happy, and if you have been conditioned to believe you aren't deserving of happiness, then there might be a little self-sabotage going on?

Might you be pregnant? Could explain the random tears?

Be gentle on yourself. Reading your posts, have always admired your level-headedness. It's great that you are so open to thinking about how you are reacting. Could it be the time of year too? All this warm, cosy togetherness and somewhere you are a little unsure of whether you can jump into all this with both feet?
With abusive previous relationship whatever baggage you have does have a few little nails sticking out ready to snag us and the older you get, the more both of you will have some habits that are harder to accept, more difficult to rub the annoying edges off.
Do you get enough time to yourself? Are you feeling it all ought to be rosier than it could realistically be and perhaps there is that bit of self-sabotaging going on underneath?
Perhaps some more counselling, just anchor yourself in where you are now, could be useful.

I shouldn't be pregnant, am on the pill. But manage to convince myself I am about twice a year regardless. Boobs have been sore, but could be nothing. Period due next week so I'll know then.

Self sabotage is probably true. DP was saying if I focus on what I actually want then it will be easier to work out what I am feeling but that just made me realise that I'm not doing anything to lead towards what I want.

I get plenty of time to myself, maybe more so than I want? I did say this a few weeks ago and we've been making more effort to spend time together rather than doing our own thing.

I feel like I give good advice, people always say it is good anyway, but I can never follow it myself. Has been the same since I was at school. I'd end up taking on everyone else's problems and avoiding my own. Had to learn to detach a bit.

I think I will follow up the counselling.

The counselling, I think, would be really helpful.

You're not giving yourself permission to be happy. Your last relationship was abusive, you are only recently out of it. I'm only 10m out myself, for a variety of reasons, there is NO way I'd be ready for someone to live in my space, I'm still not able to fully look at a man's face, let alone anything else.

You ARE doing so very well, really, but I think you do need to process what you've gone through. Does your P know what happened to you? Do you talk about it at all?

You need to work on being yourself, that's your goal. Then you'll be on the path to a full recovery, and putting the past well and truly behind you.

Bertie, I so admire you. As hard as you're finding it, you are blazing a trail, tthings WILL be better, it will get easier. You are an inspiration. Perhaps one day I too will have a proper relationship, I'm sure I'll struggle to begin with, but with any luck I'll get there anyway!

He knows that XP was an arse and he's witnessed him being an arse about DS, but there were so many little things that he doesn't know all of them, and I don't think he really "gets" DV, he works in hotels and comes home saying that he had to either break up a domestic incident or call the police about 2-3 times a year, and he always expresses surprise/confusion at why the woman inevitably drops the charges. In the early days I was quite keen for him to know the full story so at every opportunity I would recount some horrible thing XP had done but I didn't realise until DP said that this was making him feel quite uncomfortable and wonder why I kept mentioning him, he said it was making him feel like I wasn't over him. So I stopped mentioning him and the stuff only very rarely comes up in context because I don't want him to feel like I'm comparing them.

I think he is right though, I need to process it but he's not the person to help me do that.

Thank you

Yes, he is not the right person to do that for you, and without guidance, you would not know the effect of what you tell him will have.

You know we all normalise stuff. I still get surprised when I say something to someone and see their reaction of utter horror. In my eyes, what i've told them is mild..

You DO need to get this stuff out, and deal with it in a safe environment.

definitely find some counselling or group or something to work things through with.

honestly the weeping and anxiety and irritability obviously sounds like depression and anxiety. now that may be connected to your relationship or it may just be that the relationship is the obvious outlet for it being the most demanding and challenging aspect of your life (as in relationships are demanding because they are intimate rather than just putting a face on, plus moving in together is stressful/challenging and if your main issues stem from an abusive relationship then a relationship is bound to trigger stuff).

i don't have massive advice or anything but i wanted to say that i'm reading and feel for you. try not to tie yourself into too many knots thinking you have to know al the answers to all the big questions or that feeling awful and stressed necessarily means that there is a real physical cause for it in your present circumstances. you know the drill i suspect whereby the internal 'wrongness' that is hard to face/understand/deal with looks for an external 'problem' or issue to latch the feelings onto because it's reassuring to have a reason even if it isn't actually the reason at all. does that make sense?

do keep talking to him. you know the reality is that even if, as in your imagined scenario, he does not like the real you it's better to know that isn't it so you don't have to spend your life pretending to be someone you're not? though in reality i think you will find that that fear is in your head and based on old stuff rather than the here and now.

right i'm waffling. be GOOD to yourself bertie. it's ok for the road to healing to be bumpy and confusing sometimes - it's all part of the process and it doesn't mean you've done something wrong or something terrible is about to happen. even if it feels like it x

Thanks :) I do want to look into counselling but just a bit concerned that I'll end up with more of the same - I've had counselling twice, once through college and once through the children's centre, and I've always ended up talking about stuff which isn't really what I need to talk about and then I get frustrated with myself. So what I really want to do is look into something private I think where I'd be able to find something more tailored, but cost is an issue ATM. Maybe try the NHS route first?

Bertie I had counselling through my GP. I paid £10 a session, which was still very subsidised but we have a good income/no TCs etc and I think it was at the GPs discretion who paid and how much etc.

It was very good and I set the agenda at the beginning of the series of sessions in terms of what I wanted to cover.

Try the NHS route, what do you have to lose? Go for it love!

Perhaps try to get through to Women's Aid and ask if they can point you to a counsellor in your area who knows about this specifically or relate? Abuse is a hard subject to talk about and is so weird, complicated that I personally feel you do need a specialist who can probe the abuse or understand that that is primarily why you need help. Phone round, ask, and see if you can get on with the counsellor. You definitely don't need someone who will sit there just listen or throw things back at you.

yeah i'd be inclined to look at women's groups specialised in domestic abuse and it's aftermath.

Have found a domestic abuse counselling service based in my county - they even have an office in my town :)

Okay so that sounds great, except I'm nervous about going for specific "abuse counselling" because I think my issues go further back than that, and also - here's a real life example! - there's a combination of me thinking that everyone will think I'm being melodramatic if I describe the relationship as abusive because there was no violence, and I'm including DP in this because I can't actually remember if I have ever used the term "emotional abuse" when talking to him and if I did, I don't remember how he reacted to it. And then worrying that if I am going for counselling which is predominantly about this one relationship, that means I'm not over it or dwelling on it or something which is bad.

I'm being silly I know but that's my thought process at the moment. If I was to analyse I suppose that XP was very paranoid and jealous and I had to hide things if they were even something slightly to do with a taboo subject (which may well have been a particular person) so I'm doing the same thing here.

good news that it exists near you.

ok so you know you're being silly and are aware of the thought process.

my two-penneth on the counselling - i didn't train in domestic abuse but i would imagine that abuse issues always go further back than the one relationship and have deeper roots and that it's unlikely it would all focus on the one relationship. presumably it looks at history and how/why one got into the relationship and put up with and what issues, having gotten out of the relationship, still need dealing with to 'immunise' the person from repeating it again. also about dealing with issues of broken trust and moving forward i'd imagine.

lots of speculation but from my limited training i can't imagine it could avoid covering these things.

perhaps someone who works in this field or has been through this kind of counselling will be able to clear things up.

obviously you will have developed defenses for surviving the relationship with XP and yes you need to work out what they were, whether they are still appropriate or are now more harm than help (which is the trouble with defenses, we unconsciously still employ them even after the time they were needed has passed) and you could use some help in unpicking it all and working out what and how to leave some of that behind.

Bertie, love. You post so eloquently and wisely on these threads and it is so unusual to have to tell you any of this, cos I KNOW you tell others what I am about to tell you....

Abuse is abuse. If he hits you, actually it's easier to cope with on many levels. Sometimes I'd goad X into hitting/kicking, to end the days or hours of interrogation of me. If he hit me, it'd be over there and then and I could go somewhere else in the house and he wouldn't follow me. He'd got his fix.

Bruises heal all by themselves. Comments, slights, digs, insults and critisism don't. They NEED to be unravelled, shown up to the light of truth and then and only then can it be seen that not one of them is true of YOU, but all about him.

You are not a fraud. you are not less of an abuse victim if your perpetrator has never hit you. In many respects, you could be considered to be MORE abused than someone who lives with a batterer.

You NEED to do this counselling, whether you are in this new relationship or not. it will not go away otherwise.

Please call the office, please call whoever and wherever you need to get the help you will so welcome.

Only in the summer was I tearing myself apart about 'speaking' in a DV group. The very idea crushed me. Then I enrolled in the Freedom Programme, (just making the call was agony enough, there are posts somewhere on here that proves this) I did it on the very last day I could reasonably expect to do so. I called WA to give myself the space to cry in RL without someone seeing me.

I went to the FP and I can talk about things. Not for long before welling up on some subjects, but at least it's an improvement.

I also started counselling. With a MAN! i'm a month in, so far so good. I spend an hour talking 10 to the dozen. 6m ago this would never have been possible.

We have to do this. We really do.

If your P is half the man I think he may be, he'll support you and be there for you. You need to learn to trust yourself and to trust others. Counselling can help you do that.

I know, I know it is real abuse, and on here or if I'm speaking to certain people in RL I absolutely know that and feel comfortable saying that, but it's like a little safety bubble. I cannot tell most people in real life "I was emotionally abused". They would think I was some kind of drama queen. In most of RL, abuse doesn't exist unless it was physical. The most physical he got was squeezing my foot once - it sounds ridiculous. I know that that's the point, that's part of what makes it so isolating, but although I can tell people what he was like or that he was controlling, manipulative etc, I don't like to use that label of "abuse" unless I know for sure that they will take me seriously.

Erm Bertie. Who the fuck cares what others think? What business is it of theirs?

You call WA or the DV group and I PROMISE you that THEY WILL CARE.

Not one person will say you're a drama queen, not one.

You will actually find that the day you feel brave enough to tell people about your emotional abuse, they will be hugely sympathetic and full of admiration for you and your courage. There is no shame in you, none at all. The shame is all his.

I know! :(

DS is at the childminder tomorrow. I will try to work up the courage to phone then.

Something I found very helpful was talking to respect - who run courses for abusers. They are really interesting and insightful. All my hesistations, needed to say well may be I wasn't a saint etc were cut short by person on phoneline reassuring me it was abuse and this is what they say, this is the affect, this is the reaction the victim feels.
I've been seeing a counsellor who does know about abuse. She lets me talk about all sorts of things and at the moment we are kind of stuck on me figuring out why I let it go on for so long, what was it in my past that made it ok for me to put up with it. You mustn't be worried about it not being bad enough, too long in the past etc. You need to work through this for the sake of healthier relationships in the future.
And totally agree with hissy - the physical stuff in a way is not as bad as the emotional stuff. I had bits of both, and yes I too used to get angry thinking well if he hits or breaks something it's better than living under the awful cloud of waiting for it to happen.
Best of luck tomorrow

Thank you peter :)