Finally feel ok about lack of romance and communication in "relationship" - is this normal??

[feelokaboutit]

Dh and I are not physically or verbally affectionate with each other and do not have a close communicative relationship. We also sleep separately. However I have come to the conclusion that he is not capable of relating in the way I would like nor does he have any desire to do so....

He is quite negative and cynical about stuff and prone to moaning and groaning (though more lighthearted where the kids are concerned) and being quite critical. For years this really upset me but somehow I have separated myself off from it and when he goes on like that I think about something else and it doesn't have the same impact on me. I really don't know why it seems to have ceased to have an impact on me. At other times we talk about what might be on TV or about the kids. It somehow seems ok.

There are stored resentments on both sides but after years of wishing he would be more affectionate and like and accept me more I have come to the conclusion that though I know what the good things about him are, in general I am not that interested in him any more.... I know every moany groany cynical and bossy reaction he is going to have and I am bored. Of course it is totally possible he feels the same way about me.

On the one hand I feel sad for both of us that we are not with people who really appreciate us (don't know how dh feels) but on the other hand we have a family life which is very important to both of us. So though I am sad that the kids do not have an affectionate relationship modelled for them, I can certainly work at it being civil and accepting....

I really would like a relationship where I can be emotionally open and where there is lots to talk about as well as physical affection but feel that it may be that after 16 years together (almost) maybe a lot of couples are like dh and I?

Maybe I can channel all that unused energy into something else??

Don't know what I am asking really but and wondering if anybody can relate?

I cant tell you how much I understand how you feel, I could have written your post myself. I feel so stupid for perservering with such a miserable marriage and reading your post just highlights everything thats wrong. Can I ask, do you ever feel that maybe deep down your dh wants to separate but doesnt want to be the one to instigate it for fear of being painted as the bad guy so he is making your marriage so miserable and unbearable that you will eventually make that decision for him. Just a thought.

Thanks for all your messages. Thanks also piella for the link to your old thread. I am glad that you are happy now.
In answer to your question wagon, I don't feel dh is trying to push me into leaving, but I do feel that if I said I wanted to end things he would on
the one hand be very shocked and very angry that I could break up the family but on the other hand relieved at not having to deal with me in any way anymore.
He has done or said two or three unpleasant things today so I end up not being able to look at him for most of the day - but then at some point he starts talking more or less normally as though none of the other outbursts of short temper or sarcasm happened. Eg. really roughly kicking the three kids' bookbags and my handbag out of the way (with his shoes on) because he was trying to mop the floor and making a really aggressive comment to me along the lines of "you call that tidying"....
We had friends over today and I felt fine while they were there but if it is just us, depending on what mood dh is in, you never know when he might start complaining or criticising next. He does have softer moods but somehow the fact that he has these outbursts at times means that I never let myself really trust him or open up to him.

Why are you even together anymore? Surely it is time to leave him and move on and actually have a happy life.

Duty bound I suppose. We live in a comfortable house, at the moment I don't have a job (though am looking) and god knows what I could provide for the children for the time that they would be with me. It would seem as if I was throwing them into total insecurity. On the other hand, at least if I was on my own I would no longer be distracted by wondering what I should be doing all the time because it would be pretty clear and it would be self driven - nothing to do with dh. He's just quite a controlling character and my reaction to that is to withdraw completely and often not do the things he would like me to as I feel that would somehow engage me too much. The reason that I don't want to be engaged is that that would be accepting the total lack of affection between us and the horrible way h speaks to me sometimes. All very convoluted.

H just spent about 30 minutes talking about something unusual which happened to him at work and it was quite entertaining and in that space of time I start to think, well, this is ok. However when I tried to talk about somebody he does not know (well only very vaguely) and what is wrong with her (she has stomach problems) he did not pursue that line of conversation but instead turned it back round to himself and how when he had an endoscopy they didn't find anything blah blah, whereas I had actually been trying to talk about this other person.
Later we were watching a very depressing programme about a boy in america who was abducted for 4 years. At the point at which the programme started to go into details of what had happened to him I kind of said (directly mainly at the TV) "I don't really need to know this" (h knows I would rather not watch this kind of stuff) and h immediately said "OH YES YOU DO" and thereupon erupts a mini argument with him saying he didn't want an argument and me saying that I had been expressing an opinion. It's the way he expresses his opinions which I find difficult - can become bad tempered from one second to the next after which I no longer feel like talking to him AT ALL.

Certainly never about anything personal. There is never any talk of "us" (and how badly it is going in relational terms ).

Does he talk to you like this in front of the kids? Does he talk like this to the kids?

hi...been there done that, as I suspect have many people here. Only have two kids, but decided that life is too short. We are separated and living apart...I don't have a lot of income but it's a start and we are managing.

YOu may just find that DH feels the same, as I discovered, although being a man he was happier to plod along (sorry if generalisation).

It's a choice and a big one. Stay and make the most of what you have...your friends, your kids, your lifestyle. Or be massively brave and take the leap which will not be easy and that is guaranteed. You will have to learn to live alone...nobody to run to...kids that need you...not easy.

But, I did it and I am glad. It was soul destroying for me to live without affection or consideration. No animosity, just indifference which will wear you down until you are a shell of your former self.

Nobody will blame you for picking the former choice as it is easier on everyone and the kids, but if you have it in you, think about the latter choice. Think about how you might survive...do you have friends and family to help you out (emotionally and practically). People do this every day....but it is very hard. But hey, life is hard...I'm happier alone with my kids than with someone who I know can't even be bothered to converse with me.

There is nothing stopping you from living the life you (and your dc) deserve except for fear of the unknown just now...and you know how bad things feel right now.

I'm a single parent with 3 small kids. I still have no job & very little money but I am happy. Hand on heart, absolutely and utterly content and happy!

It's hard to describe the emotional freedom when you end an unfulfilling relationship. Separating is awful and difficult at first, and the practical details can be daunting but it's so worth it. Life is so much less stressful for me now that exH isn't my partner. I have worries, yes, but they are not of the type which wear me down or destroy my self esteem.

You might find that you and your H might communicate better if the relationship was to end. The dynamics change completely. Myself and exH (3 years down the line) are building a friendship now. It's more than I could have ever hoped for really.

Life as a single parent is hard, there is no denying it. You need to decide whether the benefits would outweigh that.

Oh, I meant to add that I am glad that my kids are getting to know the "me" that is not burdened with unhappiness - better for them too, I think.

It sounds as if you are both unsure what to do to be happy together. What were your respective parents' relationships like?

Thanks for your posts. Fizzfiend - you were up early!!

You kind of gave me the case for both sides so thank you. Thanks for saying "nobody will blame you for picking the former choice" Fizzfiend as one of the things which I spend time thinking about and which weighs me down as much as the "how on earth would I survive if I were divorced" is the "I will never be loved by a man again if I stay in this relationship" or "I will never be truly myself if I stay" which is just as scary as the divorce scenario.

Msshapelybottom - I think I can understand about the emotional freedom and it must feel amazing. When I fantasize about being separated, the thing which feels the best is never ever having to expect criticism as dh simply wouldn't be there to provide it (though I suppose he might criticise from a distance). Also being completely independent and totally responsible for and in control of my life.... I'm sure I would be more relaxed with the kids as well.

You are right Bonsoir - dh and I come from different family backgrounds in that his dad was difficult (by all accounts, he died before I met dh) and an alcoholic whom the family (dh, his mother and his brothers and sisters) kicked out when dh was 15. So whether dh ever saw his parents being affectionate to each other I don't know. He certainly must have witnessed some unpleasant things as he got older. He is also Indian (he came here when he was 10) and I think marriage, certainly in his younger years, was considered very differently there than it is here and whether his parents would ever have expressed affection (regardless of the alcoholism) to each other, I don't know. Certainly dh's mum (who is now 78) is a wonderful cook with a tidy house and I think this is dh's benchmark for what I should be like - ie. tidy house, lovely food (not saying I don't cook nice food at times but not on a level with his mum) and not minding about lack of affection (this is my fantasy of course because I have no way of verifying it).

My parents (sorry this is turning into an essay) were very loyal to each other and rarely argued. They presented a permanent united front (which was annoying at times because I wanted to know the two separate people) and they did express some physical affection to each other. I'm not saying they were perfect (my Mum died 5 years ago at the age of 63 ), but they were peaceful with each other. My dad is similar to my dh in that he is also quite a controlling character but much gentler. I think I did pick dh because his distance and controlling side must have felt familiar.

Thanks for asking Bonsoir because it has made me think.

Apart from talking about the kids, the main extent of dh's conversation with me seems to consist of asking me (in an often really bossy way) where something he is looking for is grrrrr. Does everybody have this??

Ah, so you are in fact in a cross-cultural relationship? I think that this is worth exploring further as I suspect you are right and that some of the things that you and your DH are at cross-purposes about are mismatched cultural expectations of the husband/wife roles. I'm not saying that this is the only reason you are unhappy together, though!

How would you feel about going to counselling on your own to explore your own feelings about marriage and relationships before tackling your H again?

OP you sound to me like someone who is just starting to wake up to the fact that they are in an emotionally abusive relationship.

I bet the more you post and read, the more you're starting to see things in a different light.

This man sounds cruel and unpleasant, and your marriage as you've described it is really no kind of marriage at all. You deserve to be respected by your partner, and you deserve to be happy.

I agree with the others who say this man is a bully. I think it'll be a while yet before you can find the conviction to do what you have to do. But keep posting, people here will give you good advice and support you.

"My dad is similar to my dh in that he is also quite a controlling character but much gentler. I think I did pick dh because his distance and controlling side must have felt familiar".

We learn about relationships first and foremost from our parents; it is of no surprise to me whatsoever that you subconsciously chose someone like your Dad. I also think you've conditioned yourself to walking on eggshells around your H and abuse like he shows you goes in cycles. The nice/nasty cycle however, is a continuous one. I note too he is as nice as pie in front of other people and abusers are very plausible to those in the outside world. He just saves all his abuse (and he is abusive) for you.

You are from two different cultures but that's only a very small part of the overall problem here. The main problem here is that you are both fundamentally mismatched as a pair and should not actually be together in your own miseriees. Remaining duty bound and staying for the sake of the children will do you nor the kids any favours at all in the long run because at that time your now adult children may well ask you outright why you did not leave their miserable critical dad years beforehand. Equally they could well accuse you too of putting him before them. That is clearly not a legacy you want to leave them. Both of you are imparting damaging relationship lessons to these young people.

What do you get out of this relationship now?. Answer that to yourself honestly.

You ask if everyone's partner just talks about the kids or asks for things in a bossy way. The answer is no. You should be able to have a conversation with your husband, a real one where you actually exchange information about yourselves, share a joke, have a laugh. DH and I chat all the time about our friends, about politics, tv programmes, music, everything really. We make each other laugh and I look forward to talking to him. Apart from that we are polite to each other and ask for things in a kind way, which is the very least you should expect.

Your post could have been written by many of us on here, so you are definitely not alone. My relationship is exactly like this too, and I have the same dilemmas about rocking the boat. However, your DH sounds unpleasant and a bit of a bully. I can understand why it has taken you a while to come to terms with what is happening in the relationship - perhaps you now need to take some practical steps so that you know exactly where you stand? I wonder if you have visited a solicitor/ CAB adviser yet to establish where you stand financially? And I would definitely take up some hobbies/ interests to help you build a life outside of your family. Once your youngest is a little bit older, you may feel better equipped to deal with your situation and move on in a way that best suits you, and becoming less dependent on him financially will open up avenues that you may not even have considered.

Either way, it sounds like a miserable existence, and I think you know that this isn't the way things should be. You deserve respect, but you need to respect yourself first.

Hi.

Yes Bonsoir, it is cross cultural. At the beginning I didn't think this had any impact but I think differently now. I have been going to counselling once a week for almost three months. Not a relate counsellor, somebody I found on the BACP website and who happens to live 10 minutes walk away from me. I think h and I (in addition to our stored resentment) do have different expectations from each other but are never able to discuss this. We did have a conversation a long time ago about going out as a couple (in the evenings sometimes that kind of thing) and h said he didn't want to do the English thing (couples occasionally getting a babysitter and going out together) but would rather do the Indian thing (whole families going out together - of course English families go out together - didn't think to point that out at the time). I think going out as a couple is sort of essential as it changes the scenery and takes you away from your daily home responsibilities. I no longer have such a desire to go out with h anyway.

H does have an unpleasant side but of course I post only my side of the story. I am far from being perfect. I do agree however that we are mismatched, though I know why we went for each other - somehow we both seem to have outgrown those reasons. I have anyway. I also agree that I have conditioned myself to walking on eggshells. It is like no longer knowing what my real reactions to things are (if h is around) or only showing half of them - I don't know. I think he has no idea that this is the effect he has on me at times nor would he be bothered to think about it.

We took the kids ice-skating this afternoon which was nice - I went on the ice with them and h watched. I was in a really good mood until I asked h if he had seen how well I could skate (this sounds childish maybe but I was quite impressed that I managed to do what I could do years ago which is basically get round the rink quite fast and not fall over) and he said no. Most of the time I was with our 5 year old going slowly and he said I was going slower than her. Now I don't know if he said this just to wind me up in some way but either way I went into a kind of sulk that a) he might have been trying to wind me up though I don't know this and b) (more likely) he just hadn't seen me go round the rink by myself at all or bothered to look - yet while I was going round I had been hoping he was looking . Then a feeling of being meaningless in my own right and just there in my function as parent kind of washes over me. I suppose this has to be counter-balanced by the fact that h too may be feeling very meaningless as far as I am concerned.

Caillin - you give a good summary of what a good relationship can be like so thank you!

I agree Biryani about finding a job and feeling more independent. I have been trying though not successfully and plan to renew (with much greater vigour!!) my attempts in January. The thought of going to a solicitor feels very scary and also disloyal somehow as I am living in comfort because of h going out to work every day.

The question regarding what the relationship brings me now is an interesting one because on the one hand it brings me loads: being able to be with my kids all the time, security, being able to afford extra curricular activities for the kids, being able to live where we do, "social" acceptance of some kind I suppose.... On the other hand, since I am not fully emotionally or mentally engaged in my life with h, I do feel kind of fraudulent as far as the kids (and even h) are concerned. I have a mental image of how I would like to be yet somehow it feels as if I can only be like that on my own and not in the context of living with h. Maybe I am wrong and I should aim to be the person I want to be within the context of my family life?? What the relationship doesn't bring me is open and loving affection as well as any kind of intimacy or emotional closeness and sharing.

I am sorry you have the same dilemmas biryani - what plans do you have for the future?

Thanks too for your message madonnawhore and your offers of future support.

Maybe what it boils down to is that h and I have kind of run out of things to say to each other???

I admit that I haven't read anthing but your initial post OP.

I can't say anything other than leave him.

I have just come out of a 2 year relationship with a cold fish. I thank my lucky stars it was only 2 years. In that time I went on AD's thinking it must be me that wanted more, I begged, screamed then suppressed. Believing that because he was so "dutiful" - never late, always did what he said, provided more than I had ever had (being a single parent with him coming into my life)

I'm not learing that he was a manipulative bastard.

We cannot make someone love us that really seriously does not have that capcity, we cannot live without that love that we want, so therefore we need
to leave

now learning.. not learing....

You don't seem to be ready to move on yet, though, and I think a wholesale leap in to the unknown would be a bit too much for you. you also seem to be quite dependent on your H for approval - perhaps this is a cultural thing too - but in your shoes perhaps you should just try to change the things that you can and not worry too much about changing the things that you can't, at least for now. You can't for example, change your H, but you can minimise the effect his attitude to you has on you by perhaps becoming more confident in yourself? I wonder whether perhaps asking his opinion on, for example, your performance on the ice is an indication of your need for his approval? Do you ask for his approval on other things? How you look? Your cooking? If so, I think you are perhaps setting yourself up to be disappointed, as the response is unlikely to be the one you would wish for.

I hope you don't think I'm being harsh - it's only an observation - but asking for approval in this way smacks to me of someone who is very insecure - perhaps a little childlike - and is therefore unlikely to be treated as an equal in a relationship.

You are a strong, capable woman - you have raised three children and you come across in your post as someone who is thoughtful, intelligent and articulate. You have weighed up your options and you are sensible enough to appreciate the positive aspects of your life. You know what you could be throwing away by leaving, and perhaps you have decided that you have too much to lose. This is your decision, but at least you have faced up to your difficulties. I hope the counselling helps you come to a decision, but only you can make your life better.

Biryani, that was a really great post.

Actually, I am really pleased to see so many thoughtful, supportive posts for the OP, no matter what she decides.

Hi all, thx for the recent messages.

Biryani, I think you are right and I am quite insecure and sometimes can be (or certainly feel!) childlike. Dh is also 12 years older than me which adds to this imbalance between us. I would like us to be so much closer and so much more appreciative of each other but instead we are totally separate. Added to this I would like dh to have a partial character change but maybe he feels the same about me ! So in that way I don't really want to be closer, I want to be free to find what I need elsewhere. On a day like today everything seems ok - things are easier between h and I during the week, we are not intimate but we rumble on ok... and then it seems totally mad that I would even consider throwing everybody into turmoil by separating. I think you are right when you say that I should work on things I can control so thank you very much. Thanks also for the other kind things you said.

Thanks also to everybody else who has been so kind on this thread .

feelokaboutit, thank you for this thread.

I have been feeling so much like you. No communication or affection from H and some of his attitude was borderline EA.
What you have posted and the answers from other posters have helped me clarifying a few things.

Can I say that I agree that you seem to be still looking for your H approval. I think in some ways, you are still hoping that you will be a family together. You are expecting him to act in this way (be affectionate, taking care of what you are doing, saying nice things) when he doesn't want to. In my experience, it is a recipe for more hurt than anythingelse as he probably won't be able to give that to you.
Working on accepting that he won't behave how you would like him to behave is hard but is also liberating because you suddenly have more space & energy to deal with other areas in your life.