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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

advice please .

53 replies

worriedhubby1 · 04/12/2011 21:14

this is my first and probably last post ever here. for those who are prepared to read with an open mind thank you and your advice will be much appreciated.
For those who are going to launch into their default mumsnet 'slag off the man/girl power/ women stick together mode please move on as I'm not interested in your biased opinion.
This is a serious matter to me as it's my marriage so only open minds will be of any help. Ok lecture over.
I've reached a point in my marriage where I honestly feel like the same problem has been cropping up for years and it's reaching a stalemate and if it goes on like this i dread to think what will happen. I feel drained, exasperated and totally frustrated.
I work long reasonably long hours and away one night a week in a very high pressured job. My wife looks after our young children and finds it equally as stressful and busy and hectic.
For the mostpart we get on well. we both fancy each other, have a reasonable sex life and still have a lot in common.
My problem is we always seem to be arguing and falling out over the same things. Namely what I would term as RESPECT issues. And there NEVER seems to be a resolution that lasts more than a couple of days despite big proclamations and promises which always fall flat on their face.
My wife continually drags up things from the past (no not affairs or anything like that) whenever we have a disagreement about something - even if it is totally unrelated.
So for example I could be having a relatively innocuous argument about an every day relationship thing and she'll literally just start picking the worst things that I've ever done in our relationship from maybe 5 years ago and start throwing them in my face - clearly as if to say 'you have no right bringing anything up to me'.
It climaxed tonight with her telling me , without a hint of irony, that any time she says anything out of line to me or does anything wrong it's because my 'behaviour and actions have made her do it.' Which basically means she can never be in the wrong, and I can never be in the right. In essence - when she's in the wrong, even that is my fault.
Often I will try and trigger some kind of resolution by saying 'right lets talk/ make up etc' but 80 per cent of the time she will storm out into a different room for hours on end, or frequently go and sleep in another room and the disagreement then goes on for a couple of days until I admit i'm wrong and say sorry. This is a frequent occurrence and it drives me insane. Makes me feel like throwing the towel in.
I am far from the perfect husband (who is) but recent things that have really worried me include trying to take her on a romantic break away only to be told "i'm not in the right frame of mind with you at the minute to do it " only for her to organise a family holiday with her parents just a week later.
Also constantly goading me about being on anti-depressants (not a major depression problem and dose relatively small) saying things like "Get back on your tablets" in a really sarcastic tone any time we disagree on something.
I don't understand why she is so hard on me. As I said I am far from perfect but I do give her a good lifestyle and i'm always telling her how great she looks, trying to encourage plenty of intimacy and also fun times together, But it's hard to be with someone who NEVER thinks they are in the wrong.
A couple of years ago she admitted it was wrong how she always storms off and lets arguments linger overnight etc and said she would stop it - yet she has failed to even remotely live up to that so far.
I don't even know where I'm going with this but as things stand I really can't go on like this. There's no point talking to her about it because every reply just begins with her talking about herself and how hard she has it and how bad it is being married to me.
Sometimes I wonder when she looks down on me so much why she would even want to be with me anymore.
A seriously tired husband.

OP posts:
amicissima · 04/12/2011 22:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

YuleingFanjo · 04/12/2011 22:01

Why has she just stormed out? What was the issue which made her argue again?

worriedhubby1 · 04/12/2011 22:09

kitty it will definitely be the silent treatment in bed - or else she will just go to the other room to sleep. there is never any other option i.e coming in and talking/making up.

OP posts:
Dozer · 04/12/2011 22:15

Perhaps you both need a break, not a high-pressure weekend away, just some rest. Anyone around who could have the dc for a night / day or two? Or take them out for a few hours on a weekend so you can have lunch.

The silent/cold treatment she's dishing out sounds horrible.

Cherriesarelovely · 04/12/2011 22:16

Well, you are getting lots of great advice OP. I know that sometimes when you are dealing with the difficulties of family life you do feel horribly angry and resentful. It doesn't mean that it will always be like this. I know this sounds a bit weird but could you write her a heartfelt letter if you are unable to talk without arguing.

YuleingFanjo · 04/12/2011 22:18

If you are doing 50/50 childcare and housework (when you are there) without needing to be reminded, told or helped then it sounds like she has no reason to be so horrible. Maybe she doesn't love you anymore?

passionsrunhigh · 04/12/2011 23:06

If it's about lack of respect, maybe it's exactly your irresopnsibility with money (which you mentioned) that's the problem. She might feel that you are not respectful, i.e. 'I earn the money and then i spend them how the f* I want to' - instead of asking how she wants to spends them/together?
It can alsao be a reason why you come across as immature and hence lack of respect. These should be resolvable though.
It's more serious if she's married for the wrong reasons, i.e. no genuine love (sorry - it's just an option) and in this case inherently feels that she's the prize, so how dare yo EVER upsetting her or disagreeing, and bears grudges from the past as to that. I've been in a relationship like that, and always felt that I'm right, or that if I'm wrong he should just diplomatically keep quiet about it! but I was in my 20s then, and thank God grown up since then! Counselling will not help in that scenario, usually age and having bad partners help, to see what you haven't appreciated before - sad, I know. Or the counsellor needs to be a genius.

JedwardThreesome · 04/12/2011 23:19

Nobody still says "girl power".

nickelbabe · 05/12/2011 03:42

oreocrumbs's post is great.

and it really higlights the need to seek counselling for you both.
If there's a deep-down resentment or issue that hasn't ben resovled, she might not even realise that it's still an issue for her.

I'm glad that the rest of your life is good, and it sounds like you're doing the best you can (re: housework andchildcare sharing), so you need to get the professional help to work out where it's all comign from, and how you can both work on it.

nickelbabe · 05/12/2011 03:46

passions - that part struck with me as well.

One of the things you can do, is sit down together and work out a family budget. If your wages go into a joint accoutn that you have equal access to, that's a great help.
Make sure that whenver you talk about money, you use the phrase "our money" instead of "my money".
Don't give her "housekeeping", just talk about "the budget"
ask her her opinion on what needs spending weekly,. what she'd like to spend money on, and keep a pot in the kitchen with cash in.
(in our house, i have to pay for the grovery shopping and the petrol, so I put he money in a pot each week so that DH doesn't feel like he has to ask me the money, he just knows it's there when he needs to go shopping) - again with that issue, make it clear that it's "our shopping money".
that might help a bit.
don't talk about treats for her, and certainly don't spend any money on yourself without asking her if it's okay. (not asking her permission, but clearing it with her, iyswim - sort of "i'd like to buy some new shoes, can we afford that this month?" etc)

MrsTerryPratchett · 05/12/2011 05:01

She sounds really unhappy and very angry with you. You seem a little unwilling to be specific about what you are arguing about she perhaps she is right to be. It's impossible to tell.

Some things that would make my blood boil (were I your DW), "look up to me", "give her..." and, in your OP, you started with a "lecture" about what opinions you would listen to and are interested in. I do wonder if this is how you frame discussions with your DW. If my DH came in to ask me about something and his opening was, "if you are going to launch into your default 'slag off the man/girl power/ women stick together mode please move on as I'm not interested in your biased opinion. This is a serious matter to me as it's my marriage so only open minds will be of any help. Ok lecture over ", I would be a tad pissed off.

Maybe you don't frame discussions with DW like this. Maybe it's just for this vest of vipers post. You should consider that it may be your modus operandis and it may get up her nose. It sounds defensive and it is possible that that is because you are trying to defend yourself against DW but if that is the case you need a neutral person (counsellor).

Also, it has been said before but sometimes the reason men get short shrift on here is because it smacks of a DH going to your female friends, slagging you off, only telling his side and then going to you and saying, "all your friends think you're a bitch and unreasonable too, see I was right".

TroublesomeEx · 05/12/2011 10:44

like we're in constant competition to prove who has it the hardest yeah, been there!

Have you tried writing it all down to each other?*

DH and I went through a rough patch a few years ago and we resolved it through letters (couldn't afford therapy either in time or financially!)

There were rules about the letters and these included not starting sentences with "You always" or "you never" because these are rarely true and are antagonistic.

It's far better to say "When X happens, it makes me feel...." You can say it "feels like" something always/never happens but not state it as fact.

If you read a letter and encounter a broken rule, the letter doesn't get read, the writer knows that their point has not been made, the receiver gets to take the (quiet) moral high ground.

Writing letters gives you time to think about what you are going to say, review it, reflect on how it might sound to the other person, consider whether you are actually communicating the issue or just your anger and frustration, and we find that ultimately we were unhappy about the same things, just coming at them from a different perspective.

nailak · 05/12/2011 10:52

Maybe she brings up things from the past as she genuinely isn't over it and it effects her present.

For example a woman who is coerced in to living with in laws may later on find that her bond with or authority over child is reduced as during that period it was.constantly undermined.

I don't know your specific issues but it seems as she feels that she has had to change her nature or natural reaactions due to circumstances instigated by you?

nativitywreck · 05/12/2011 11:05

I think maybe the thing with the anti d's is key. She brings it up in arguments, and seems really angry about it.
Maybe she is also a bit depressed, but feels like she is "not allowed" to be because you got there first iyswim!
It's not rational, but she clearly resents the fact that you are taking anti d's.

When you say it is a competition about who has it worse, well, she clearly isn't happy being a sahm, and obviously you are not happy either.
Is there any way that she could go back to work? Is this something you have discussed?

Firstly I think you need to come at the problem in a different way. If every time you try and talk to her it ends in an argument, try a different approach.

Forget about point scoring. Make he a cup of tea and ask her about her day. Then listen. Show that you understand how tough it is being left at home with little kids.

Don't EVER bring up money, or how good a lifestyle she has because of you working hard.

Don't try to have sex as a way of making up. Women generally don't work like that, and if she thinks you are trying to make up in order to have sex she will be even more pissed off.

And do have counseling, as this will help you both to discuss things without dragging past issues into the equation.

pinkdelight · 05/12/2011 11:15

Sorry to hear you're having a hard time. I can relate - we're not at this stage yet but I can see the seeds of it and how quickly we could get to stage where we say such hurtful things to each other without thinking. To me, it's so much about stress and tiredness. I got a lie-in yesterday, and you know what? I was a MUCH nicer person as a result. Felt more like my old self again and felt the impulse to do/say nice things instead of snapping and getting mad at DH just because he is there and can take it (so far). Obviously it sounds like your DW needs more than a lie-in to put things right, but is there any way you can come up with together to ease the pressures on you both? Some childcare so she can work/do something for herself? A break that isn't nescessarily romantic (which is another pressure, in a way), but just to be yourselves again?

lottiegb · 05/12/2011 11:18

As with Mrs P your opening concerned me. I understand what you're saying but you come across as unable to relinquish control to others, accept that they may have well-founded opinions that differ from yours and/or to feel that your post will not be adequately self-explanatory - perhaps because you know or fear that you are missing something out? Were you to talk to me in that way we would not begin a conversation. Nothing irks me more than being told what I think or how I am going to react. If you want my opinion you have not only to ask but to listen, actively, seeking to understand, not while constructing your rebuttal in your head.

Ok, so that aside, I agree with others that you need to talk and a counsellor might help. A few other thoughts:

Your comment about money rings alarm bells. Do you spend frivolously while your wife feels obliged to be frugal? Is that because you regard your earnings as yours not the family's and don't have equal 'spending money' or equal say over luxuries?

Do you always seek resolution to arguments, perhaps too quickly, before your wife has had a chance to calm down? Does she feel that you are being bossy or seeking to take control of every issue? Could you come to some agreement that any argument needs to be resolved before bed time and that sulking beyond that time is unacceptable? Some such parameters might give her the opportunity to calm down and instigate discussion herself.

Sulking is immensely irksome and childish and often manipulative. People can storm off because they are too angry to be coherent but you both need to be able to come back later, state the problem, discuss the desired solution and sort things out if you are to have any chance.

One thought, inevitably, is that your wife has given up on the relationship or actually wants to break up but feels tied to domestic circumstances and is just dragging things out, unpleasantly. She need to be challenged, or challenge herself to consider, arrive at and state a view on that.

Your wife sounds very unhappy. She may feel helpless. She needs to be able to identify what she wants and how she is going to achieve it. This might mean doing quite small things that will make a difference but does involve her taking some responsibility for identifying a course of action. It may be better put by your asking what you can do to help e.g. can you offer / arrange childcare while she goes out to exercise, see friends, or some other activity?

Your comment about a romantic weekend does read like a kneejerk response I'm afraid - proposing an instant solution rather than seeking to understand the problem. It suggests a failure to understand that your wife is unhappy and detached from you and needs to address more basic issues in order to regain a normal equilibrium before she could possibly feel the necessary enthusiasm and motivation for a celebratory event. I'd expect someone with experience of depression to be able to relate to that. People do this a lot though, usually to avoid having to confront others' unhappinness (like thinking that someone grieving, recovering from a break-up, or depressed, will be cheered up by a 'night out' when what they really want is comfort and conversation from close friends).

I can understand the idea that because of an accumlation of small problems in the past, it is no longer possible to believe someone when they claim they will change. If a problem and its solution have been pointed out and explained but continue to happen repeatedly, then after some time, why would anyone believe change is likely or even possible? Your wife may well feel that the examples from the past are relevant when she feels let down in a way that follows a theme. You need to find out what that theme is. Alternatively she could be saying you should feel lucky to have her and how dare you criticise her. Incidentally, do you 'look up to' her, respect her intellect, values and capabilities?

nativitywreck · 05/12/2011 11:27

Yeah, do you "look up to her?"
If not, why should she have to look up to you?
Do you mean admire? Because that is something to be sought in a relationship, but "looking up" implies that one of you is somehow below.

mumofthreekids · 05/12/2011 11:31

Excellent post lottiegb

lottiegb · 05/12/2011 11:36

Can you tell that I ought to be doing something else instead - writing an essay? Xmas Smile

AKMD · 05/12/2011 11:37

I am careful with money an my DH is a spendaholic. I feel like I spend half my life talking him out of some ridiculous purchase or other and it makes me feel like his mum, not his wife. If you're like this then that could by why your wife has no respect for you.

MainlyMaynie · 05/12/2011 11:55

Expecting her to 'look up' to you is unrealistic and unfair - that sort of attitude probably explains a lot, as does your need to 'lecture' women before you engage with them. Her several day sulks are unfair too though. I agree with everyone who's said you need counselling as a couple.

LyssaM · 05/12/2011 12:03

What do you argue about?

Are the things she brings up from long ago properly sorted or brushed under the carpet? Is there an element of 'again'?

She may be so hurt by things that have happened in the past that she can't get back to connecting with you in the present.

How would you feel personally about counselling? How do you think she would react?

I hope this all works out for you.

mischiefmummy · 05/12/2011 12:06

Ok, so from personal experience I bring up probably four key resentments on a fairly regular basis. That is because, as stated by other posters, I do not feel like those issues have been properly addressed.
When I try and explain how devastated I was by my DP actions (or lack of) he simply shrugs, and says he's already said he's sorry. There is no sign of genuine remorse or sadness for the hurt and anguish his lack of care caused.
I no longer feel I have a friend to lean on or someone to watch my back. I am alone. I try very hard never to ask him for anything because when I have done so in the past he has simply ignored me and changed the conversation. When I have tried to address this I'm told it's because I asked the wrong way, chose the wrong moment, he didn't really understand (but didn't ask for clarification) he was too tired etc etc
I too give the cold shoulder, usually because I am too tired and sad to think of anything else to say. It's easier to say nothing until I have had a chance to re-group at bit.
He is always happy to offer tea and be super-nice but I find it infuriating as he is clearly avoiding the subject which I find cowardly and I just would like him to man-up and have an open and frank conversation.
He assures me that the way our money is organised is perfectly fair and open as I have a spreadsheet I can refer to. Sadly I do not have access to the accounts and so have to ask for money for any additional money I may need for car repairs etc. He pays for all the house DDs and about 2/3 of the food. I pay for the remaining food, my petrol and all kids' stuff from FA, a lodger and a small rental income.
So in short OP, I think you are getting some great advice and I'm sorry to hijack but I thought you might welcome some insight from a 'flouncer' who is often just too enraged to have any words left. We're actually just often very very sad. Anger as my councillor pointed out is a secondary emotion, it is always caused by another emotion, sadness, frustration etc. I don't cry as a rule, I feel much safer being angry as I hate feeling vulnerable and by being angry I can mask how sad I feel....weird I know!
Interestingly DP is a master practitioner at NLP and has previously been a Samaritan, but he seems to have completely overlooked what is happening in his own home.

UnexpectedOrange · 05/12/2011 12:11

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Shutupanddrive · 05/12/2011 12:23

An obvious question, but does she still love you?

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