I don't feel like anyone ever really likes me.

[PinkAndPurplePirateGirl]

I have namechanged for this.

I have low self-esteem. I'm currently having counselling and CBT to help this, and it is helping, but I feel so low because I feel no one ever likes me. I think people think I am just "there" but no one thinks very highly of me.

I'm much more assertive now than I was before and say no to people if necessary, I just feel left out of things. I was emotionally neglected and abused by my mother as a child, and my counsellor says this is the cause of my low self-esteem. My mother also favoured my sister and I was always left out, and now I transfer this into situations in my adulthood (I am 35).

On the surface I appear to have lots of friends. At school I had a huge group of friends, but not one of them would say that I am their best friend, even though we are all still friends now. And I still feel on the outside, even though to others it wouldn't look that way at all. The girl I was closest to at school and who I thought was my best friend clearly wasn't as she chose another girl from our group of friends to be her bridesmaid and godmother to her child. I've only ever been a bridesmaid once, to my sister, no one else has ever asked me. I am always the kind of person that gets overlooked for wedding invitations and just invited to the evening do. I guess people think they can walk all over me. Likewise in other situations where I have got close to someone and developed a good friendship they then refer to someone else as their "best friend". I think people want to know me if I'm doing something for them or listening to their woes but when I had a crisis a couple of months ago very few people helped or even bothered to ask how I was. I don't know if I'm just better off with no friends as at least I have no expectations as I'm not "giving" my time/effort to anyone.

I do appear to be a confident person, but I always feel people, for example, at the school, talk to me until someone better comes along. I was dropping my DD off this morning and another mum came to talk to me, then her 3 friends came along and I could tell she was just itching to get away to talk to them, as she kept looking round at them whilst she talked to me, so I said I had to go as had to take the youngest DC to nursery and off I went. I don't know why the other 3 couldn't have come over to talk to me and just said hello, as they all talk to me normally and I get on fine with them. I joined an online baby club when I had my youngest child and although I get on fine with people on there I feel left out. Peoples' replies to others are always warmer to each other than they are to me. I think that's the thing, everyone seems warmer to other people than they are to me. Also so many people in life say what they think and are honest and people respect them for it and carry on being friends with them but on the few occasions I've "dared" to speak my mind or be true to myself people fall out with me. I want to be able to be honest and speak my mind.

I think my mistake is I try to please everyone when all I should try to please is me really. I just find myself smiling away and probably making an idiot of myself.

This rings quite a few bells for me. I have always attracted LOTS of friends, but few really close friends.

I know that I grew up feeling that people seemed to find other children more lovable than me and that did affect my self esteem to a point.

In my case, I think I have never been as physically demonstrative or emotionally open with people as others frequently are. I think I am a bit reserved, and slow to trust people, so they don't warm to me in a way they warm to others. They laugh at my jokes, enjoy my company... but I don't think they necessarily want to confide in me because I don't over-confide in them... could this be relevant to you? Do you think people might find you a bit unapproachable?

Though you could just be unlucky, couldn't you? Maybe you've just never met the right people to really 'click' with, and when you did, maybe you came too late, because they already had a relationship with someone they call their best friend.

Three of my best friends are men. My OH is one of them, the other is a colleague, the third a former flat mate that I met at university, and actually, in the end, I've found I can pour my heart out to any one of them. I'm disappointed that my female friends are in shorter supply. I have a couple that I do love dearly, but distance has separated us now, and it's much harder to stay in touch.

Anyway, it's not about me. But I have had really, really down moments when I felt as though everyone but me had close friends, and I couldn't comprehend why I wasn't invited to become closer to certain people. So I really feel for you.

I'm sorry if this is completely UNhelpful.

I sometimes suffer from low self-esteem; it's really tough. I had CBT and it really helped me, because it changed the whole way I think about myself and those 'repeated phrases' that I tell myself whenever things happen. I really hope it helps you.

I think my mistake is I try to please everyone when all I should try to please is me really. I just find myself smiling away and probably making an idiot of myself.

Think you may have answered your own question ( though I think there's alot more going on here too).

If you are not being you, then it's just hard for others to enjoy you. Because you are not being you.

Have you lost 'you'?

It's easy to do. You are a daughter with a relationship that sounds pants.
A sister, and that doesn't sound to be a barrel of laughs either.
You are or have been a partner.
And you are a mother.

And to your friends you hold back. Scared of rejection? Scared that they won't like the real you? Scared you won't be funny, witty, clever enough?

I would take a deep breath, speak to your therapist and gradually very gradually find you. You'll be lovely and probably very wise.

Pink for what it worth I think you sound lovely, Do the CBT I am sure it will help. You could be me with your childhood, it really shapes how we are doesn't. People always think I am standoffish and scarey even but actually I am very shy but hate to show it, If that makes any sense. I

pink....your post has really struck a cord with me. You sound like you are taking positives steps to improve your low self-esteem. I suffer low-self esteem also & it is hard. I have a few friends but none that would class me as a best-friend...although I do so much to help or please them.
You sound a lovely person & I really hope that the counselling & CBT enables you to gain the self-esteem you deserve. I will be watching this post for some advice & tips for myself.

Thank you everyone.

I think I have lost sight of myself, actually I don't think I'm even sure who the real me is. Other people seem to communicate with others with such ease and just effortlessly get on together but for me is it so hard. I would be happy though with just 2 or 3 real, true, proper friends that reciprocate everything towards me. My mum was/is very passive aggressive and my counsellor said that maybe that is what I come across as too, through no fault of my own it's just what I know, and we're working on that.

Today though I just feel like hiding myself away and not having anything to do with anyone. Instead I have to go and watch my DD's Xmas show after school so I expect I'll be chatted to and then everyone will go and sit with their proper friends.

I've been mulling this over this afternoon. I just went to watch DD's play and saw a woman I know and was chatting to her, and suddenly someone else came over and that was it, they were chatting and I was a spare part. It always happens, if there is a 3, I get left out. Even if I know both the other two and they don't know each other, I get left out, whereas if I only know one person but not the other, then the other person never wants to know me. I really don't know where I go wrong, I feel at rock bottom about it all I really do.

And I know this sounds very childish but the internet group I mentioned earlier are always quoting each other in Facebook statuses and seem to remember things about each other. Someone said she loved a particular coffee shop and people are always tagging her in their statuses and saying they've been in a branch of it. Another makes cakes and she is always being tagged. I feel like I am just "there", in the way, and no one takes any notice of me.

I know exactly how you feel as I've felt a similar way throughout my adult life. People just don't warm to me in the way they do to others, and I've never had a best friend. I am quite shy and fairly quiet so I probably don't always come across well but I do try and make an effort and I'm not a horrible person.

I think some people are naturally sociable and feel others well, and some just aern't. Lots of men are shy/ not that good socially but somehow it's expected, whereas women are better in their majority, so a woman who's more of 'male type' is often unpopular. I think it's about being empathetic - to understand subtle signals, mainly non verbal that other women gice out and talk and adapt to their wavelength - then they do the same for you if you have compatible personalities. If you find it hard to read people (as many men do) your responses might be either too generic (smiling all the time) or too out of place (insensitive, like not picking up on their mood, not saying what they really want to hear). It's a small thing kind of, but often it's all to do with facial expression, simple as that. If someone looks eager and desperate all the time, people step away, or it could be sour/doom and gloom expression almost self-fulfilling (i.e. I know no one likes me - and hence sour expression - hence tey don't like you). I'm sure it's not what you do or what you feel which is genuine, it's how you appear. I'm kind of opposite in that I don't have enough energy to always put my best foot forward with people, and often lose interest and patience with trivial conversations - which cost me a few budding friendships - so for me it's to do with discipline and effort. You seem to have lots of energy, and lots of people who you want to be friends with (I'm too selective for my own good - trying to be more open-minded now) - so I'd say, relax more and try to appear content, not trying to please, yet open and still smiling on and off. It's also a lot to do with having common interests to discuss, not just small talk?

pretty, you sound really nice - I think shy people (who are nice) are well undervalued! they make great loyal friends because they focus on a few people and make an effort to know them, you can rely on them usually.

interesting about passive agressive...you might be resentful that people are not reciprocating your interest and subconsciously feel agressive (try to PUSH them to be interested). It' s important to like your own company too, so people don't feel you rely on them for attention, they would also find you more interesting if you respect/like yourself - even if not very talkative with it! It's frustrating because it's not what's inside that counts when you first meet someone new.

Pink, stop it now. It's because you aren't trivial and because there's more to you than being tagged or tagging because of going to a certain coffee shop. Jesus! Do you really want to be in this crowd?

Your people are out there - but you won't find them while wasting your time hanging around competitive, snidy circles. (Bleurgh. Hate them.)

I think that rejection/neglect leaves a deep mark and it's hard to read signs as a result - there's a sort of inner tension, deep inside, which makes it seem imossible to relax enough. I have been rejected/neglected/abused by my sisters and I find is very hard to click in a deep way with women. I really do empathise with the things you are saying OP (you sound lovely btw) but imo it's more to do with our internal landscape, if you like, how we perceive what is going on. I think that if you have a rejection wound it's hard to be lighthearted plus we can be hyper alert to the faintest whiff of rejection and assume there it is again, when it isn't necessarily.

BUT sometimes it definitely is and tbh part of recovery from a damaging childhood is to be able to manage times when it appears again (OUCH). There are people like you out there, people on your wavelength - I have spent a lot of time at eg support groups for people who have been abused and it is a great relief to just be with people who know what it's like so you don't have to explain and aren't afraid of being judged or shied away from, where you can relax - heaven! As tallwivglasses says, you wouldn't want to be best buds with those women at the school anyway. Try not to take the rejection thoughts too seriously pink, try not to let them slaughter you - they're giving you the runaround and it only makes you feel more shit and more rejected (agony!) and you may as well think 'well I think I'm fab, I'd like to know me'.

This may sound peculiar but one thing that really helps in almost a magical way (something to do with the hypothalmus?) is to speak to yourself in the mirror. Look into your eyes and say 'You are lovely pink. Anyone would be blessed to know you'. Or 'I love you pink, you are loveable and lovely'. If you're anything like me it took me a long time to be able to even look into my eyes. But I got there in the end.

Affirmations can change our beliefs about ourselves, but may I suggest an amendment to springy's affirmations?

Make your affirmations positive, in the present, and in the first person singular i.e. 'I am lovely. Others are blessed to know me' and 'I am lovely, loveable, and I love me'.

It's possible to make our desires happen by affirming as if they have already manifested in our lives. Try affirming 'I have all the friends I need'.

You could try affirming 'I attract friends wherever I go' but be prepared to look as if you're the Pied Piper when you're out and about

springdaffs is right...telling yourself how wonderful/great/lovely you are is a step towards self-fulfilling prophecy. The kinder you are to yourself & tell yourself...the more you will believe. I have a non-existent relationship with my sisters...what helped me was a technique I was told about how to 'let them go'. It is not the same for you as you would like to draw people in...but I feel through my technique it has helped me open up more to others than be stuck in the negative/dysfunctional rut they had me in.

Hi, your thread has got me thinking because I work with a women like you. I think passions has made good points IMO about subtle social indicators which you are probably unaware of. And also you can't force pr fake these things.

In the case off my colleague, I know she would say the same things about herself as you do, in that she is a very 'giving' friend. She OS always quick to offer a listening ear or company for example of any of us are having a tough time. The thing is though, she has no genuine interest in anyone. She is so absorbed in hating on herself and feeling sorry for herself. She is moody and grumpy. She can be the supportive friend one day and blank you the next. It makes her fickle and untrustworthy. She can be quite unkind on a passive aggresive way and thinks nothing of odtracoding a person she has taken a dislike to.

I am fully aware that she means no harm and this all stems from her lack of self esteem. But I nor anyone else can help her.

You are not actually craving friendship of others. You need tps be a friend to yourself. The rest will follow

It is really hard to tell on the internet, but I do wonder OP if you "hold back" a lot emotionally. You are obviously friendly, nice and able to talk to people, otherwise you wouldn't have lots of friends. But to get deeper friends, especially with other women, you do need to share stuff about yourself at an emotional level.

What you have posted actually reminds me of a friend of mine. She is a lovely woman. Friendly, funny, intelligent, caring and interested in others. But I actually can't think of 1 close friend she has. I have talked about her with other friends who have agreed that we don't really feel we "know" her. And that is because she doesn't share much about herself - how she is feeling really, her real views about stuff, etc. And without real sharing like this, I think it is hard to develop emotional closeness.

I know the few times you said that you have shared what you really thought, you got a negative reaction. It is hard to tell over the internet, but 2 things occur to me. Firstly, if you don't normally share how you really feel and then suddenly say something very negative or controversial, then people will be surprised by this. They may also wonder if this is the kind of thing you secretly think a lot and hide. This won't go down well.

Two, people who do often say negative or controversial things ime, don't care much what others think about this. And this affects how people respond to them and view what they say. For example, 1 man I know who can be a real grump at times. If he says grumpy things that really are a bit much, we laugh at him and call him a grumpy old man and he seems fine with that. Or another friend who has a tendency to say outrageous things - we tend to laugh and say of come on x that is really out of order. So they do get away with it. But it is because of what other people feel they can say back without them taking offence. And people do fall out with or avoid these two people. Its just their friends are happy to accept these parts of their personality.

In terms of sharing stuff about yourself I think it would work best with gradual change - slowly opening up rather tahn trying to open up totally on 1 matter suddenly. People need to adapt to changes you make as well and this is easier if it is slower.

Also when you mention about specific incidents such as at the school gates or on internet forums - it may be that you are affected by these more than most people i.e. they happen more to you than others. But I think everyone will have experienced these kind of incidents and felt like that at times. So you may sometimes be magnifying these incidents because of your childhood experiences - understandably so. Sorry if this is not the case, but it might be worth considering.

Making friends is a skill - it doesn't mean that you are intrinsically not likeable. If you were unlikeable, people would avoid you and you wouldn't have any friends. So you must be likeable. But your skills at making close friends may need improving.

But just to say I do kind of understand how you feel. I didn't have a neglectful childhood - but I posted in AIBU about being sad that none of my friends would see me as their "best" friend - and I think I recognise you from there - maybe? So I can't help you with that, but maybe it is about looking at how you can have more closer friends and developing the skills to get these.

Sorry the post is so long, but I hope it is helpful. And I hope things do get better - I know how important this can be and I think people that make close or best friends easily don't really understand this at all.

Thank you everyone. Lots of things to think on and reflect on.

I like to think I don't come across as badly as the woman you know, bejeezus. I feel like I do have a genuine interest in people. Not everyone though. I wouldn't say I'm moody and grumpy either and I'm not unkind to people. I do see what you're saying though, totally. The subtle social indicators are intersting, passions. The rejection thing I totally identify with too, I feel like i've been rejected all my life, apart from by my lovely hubby and children.

I wouldn't say I am an unpopular person, I feel that I have plenty of people that like me, but not like me enough if that makes sense. I really don't want loads and loads of friends, I would be happy with just 2 or 3 really good, proper friends. That would do me.

It's difficult as obviously i don't want to be one of those eager people that pounces on others and is all false, but I don't want to appear unfriendly either. What is the best thing to do in situations if for example i am left out? Am I best off making an excuse and going? Or staying and carrying on joining in? I think the key is I need to put myself/my family first at all times and do what i want, and if that means I am too busy focussing on something else to say hello to someone then that's that, or if it means I can't do a favour or whatever then that's that too. I am going to forget about friends for the meantime I think and just enjoy being me. :-)

Lesley33, we cross posted, yes you have totally hit the nail on the head that I don't open up enough and also like you say if i do come out with an outrageous comment or even something that is just honest it offends people. I find that others can disagree with people and still stay friends but if someone disagrees with me then that's it. I am certain this boils down to childhood though as my mum hates anyone disagreeing with her and would sometimes not speak to me for days if we crossed swords. Deep down I am certain i have the fear of this happening again, even though if someone doesn't speak to me as I hold a different opinion to them well then I guess they're not a real friend then.

I think i have a real fear of opening up and have been guilty of just saying what other people want to hear or agreeing with them when actually inside I'm thinking "well actually my opinion is X". And I totally agree too that I magnify issues that happen to other people too. I was talking to my DH last night and he said "yes but we all get ignored and we all have people we disagree with but such is life" and I do agree. I know I am too sensitive.

Another thing too whilst I'm on a roll is I always feel I have to explain myself to people. Yesterday I clicked on an article on one of the newspaper sites that showed up in my FB feed, and immediately 2 people from my friends list commented on what I'd read and I felt they were being a bit critical. Instead of ignoring their comments I felt I had to justify why I'd read the article. The reason I had read it was because another mutual friend had read it but they didn't comment on her reading it, because she is the type that gets away with anything. So I ended up saying "Saw it on X's feed and curiosity got the better of me" when actually I could bloody kick myself as why the heck should i explain to someone about what I choose to read?

tbh izzy (and pink) it was saying "I love you" in the mirror that was the most effective - it really hit the spot, and the positive results, over time, were obvious, even to me. Saying my name - "I love you springy" - helped too. I need to say here that I felt a bit of a dork, especially to begin with, but imo you have to address that part that has been damaged, to uproot those inner beliefs that have gone in so deep you don't even know they're there.

another thing I am careful about is my thoughts. Some of the things we think are truly vicious, poisonous; particularly when there is a deep and entrenched self-loathing (the result of abuse). If you bring those thoughts out to your conscious mind, if you like - even write down what you're thinking - it is a huge shock. If you played that vicious stuff to an emotionally healthy person they'd crash in a very short time. So I am very careful to monitor what I'm thinking, to refuse to indulge those thoughts or to give them any air time.

From what you say pink you have been viciously criticised and I don't think it helps to continue that criticism. In a loving environment it is much easier and more effective to address damaging ways of relating or presenting yourself to the world but I tend to think you've got to get that heart soaked in positives, the good stuff, before you can do that.

Pink you chose to defend yourself to them a lot of people just dont think that much about what they post on fb and you are overthinking what they post on facebook. I think you may be being over sensitive about what to the people posting is not actually a big deal.
I know the situation with two people talking to each other when you had been having a discussion with one of them , its familiar to me, it took me a while to realise I was doing it to myself. when someone else appeared of course the person I was with would acknowledge and talk to them, I would then stop talking and they would continue , I was in fact excluding myself. Now I make sure to include the new person and make sure we all talk together.
Consider your own behaviour are you isolating yourself at all ? by assuming isolation is bound to occur do you do it to yourself to avoid some sort of hurt?
I used to do this but i tell myself frequently I am only hurting myself with that behaviour if one person rejects me it hurts for a short amount of time, if i reject everyone first so they cant do it to me then I hurt all the time because I feel lonely and unloved.

I need also to say that I don't believe in affirmations for the sake of them. I believe in love tbh, the real thing; the lack of which in formative relationships has created a dirth, a desert. Though I appreciate I'm sounding more wacky the more I say

springydaffs

pink - As I have said before it is hard to tell over the internet, but 2 things occur to me from what you have written.

1. You talk about people reacting negatively if you disagree with what they say. Sometimes if we are not used to doing something, it doesn't come out how we mean it to. For example, I find it really hard to complain. So when i pluck courage up to do it I am usually quite nervous. My DP says that I usually come across as too agressive. I don't mean to and I didn't think I did, but I believe DP and i think it is because I haven't done it much.

I wonder if you might be the same and are perhaps being a bit agressive or too vehement when you disagree with someone as you are not used to doing it?

1. If your mum hated disagreeing with anyone then you won't easily have learned in childhood how to do this. I think we learn some skills like this from watching what our parents do. If you didn't learn this from your parents by watching what they did, it is imo much harder to learn these skills.

I agree that you are overthinking things with the fb example. 2 friends may have commented on your comment and not friends for a whole range of reasons that are nothing to do with how much they like you. For example, x friend of mine reads a crappy article and makes a fb comment. I don't say anything becasuse 1. she is oversensitive and I don't want to upset her or 2. She is the kind of person to read crappy articles - this is just what she does or 3. I wasn't looking at fb and didn't see her comment.

I log on to fb and see your comment and comment because 1. you are not going to fall out with me if I post a comment or 2. you don't normally read crappy articles and i am surprised that you have - not judging, just surprised as it seems out of character or 3. i have just seen your comment and respond to it as the most recent one.

Try not to interpret everything through the prism of people not liking you.