I don't feel like anyone ever really likes me.

[PinkAndPurplePirateGirl]

I have namechanged for this.

I have low self-esteem. I'm currently having counselling and CBT to help this, and it is helping, but I feel so low because I feel no one ever likes me. I think people think I am just "there" but no one thinks very highly of me.

I'm much more assertive now than I was before and say no to people if necessary, I just feel left out of things. I was emotionally neglected and abused by my mother as a child, and my counsellor says this is the cause of my low self-esteem. My mother also favoured my sister and I was always left out, and now I transfer this into situations in my adulthood (I am 35).

On the surface I appear to have lots of friends. At school I had a huge group of friends, but not one of them would say that I am their best friend, even though we are all still friends now. And I still feel on the outside, even though to others it wouldn't look that way at all. The girl I was closest to at school and who I thought was my best friend clearly wasn't as she chose another girl from our group of friends to be her bridesmaid and godmother to her child. I've only ever been a bridesmaid once, to my sister, no one else has ever asked me. I am always the kind of person that gets overlooked for wedding invitations and just invited to the evening do. I guess people think they can walk all over me. Likewise in other situations where I have got close to someone and developed a good friendship they then refer to someone else as their "best friend". I think people want to know me if I'm doing something for them or listening to their woes but when I had a crisis a couple of months ago very few people helped or even bothered to ask how I was. I don't know if I'm just better off with no friends as at least I have no expectations as I'm not "giving" my time/effort to anyone.

I do appear to be a confident person, but I always feel people, for example, at the school, talk to me until someone better comes along. I was dropping my DD off this morning and another mum came to talk to me, then her 3 friends came along and I could tell she was just itching to get away to talk to them, as she kept looking round at them whilst she talked to me, so I said I had to go as had to take the youngest DC to nursery and off I went. I don't know why the other 3 couldn't have come over to talk to me and just said hello, as they all talk to me normally and I get on fine with them. I joined an online baby club when I had my youngest child and although I get on fine with people on there I feel left out. Peoples' replies to others are always warmer to each other than they are to me. I think that's the thing, everyone seems warmer to other people than they are to me. Also so many people in life say what they think and are honest and people respect them for it and carry on being friends with them but on the few occasions I've "dared" to speak my mind or be true to myself people fall out with me. I want to be able to be honest and speak my mind.

I think my mistake is I try to please everyone when all I should try to please is me really. I just find myself smiling away and probably making an idiot of myself.

Hi Pink do you ever meet someone and really like them? I'm not criticising, I'm just thinking that if you don't get really excited about someone then they aren't likely to get really excited about you. Although thats not to say they don't think you are nice, they just don't feel inspired to go out for dinner with you or make a big fuss on your birthday.

Sometimes I might even get a bit of a crush on a new friend and I think that brings a certain level of enthusiasm to things. There's loads of people I meet and I don't like, women who are all a bit perfect turn me right off. I love it when you get to know a 'perfect' person and they turn out to be human and really nice after all! I think you are right when you say you need to open up a bit more - warts and all. I always think that if you aim to please everyone you'll end up pleasing noone so focus on what kind of friends you do want.

Oh and if I knew someone that was always on the fence/ quiet but who suddenly spoke their mind to me I would be very offended in a way that I wouldn't care if it was someone who bitched me out on a regular basis. Its stupid, I know - but it would make me doubt the friendship quiet seriously.

You do sound nice btw, its great to think about stuff like this every now and again and see if you can get more out of life.

Same here.

But people tend to quite like me and whilst I generally like others and am well-disposed to the human race in general, I am not really that bothered whether I have a friendship with them. I am perfectly happy to have a superficial relationship with people. I don't really need them and I am quite self-confident.

I spent years being like you, feeling that no-one like me beause 'I had no friends'. But now I realise that the reason I don't have heaps of 'mates' is because actually I can't be bothered. There are a handful of people I really get on with and who would help me out in need - but they are similar to me, happy with minimal contact and when we do get together we get on as if we've never been apart.

I think I may be an alien. But that's OK

Change the way you see yourself. You can't change everyone else.

Just marking my place. I know how you feel pink, me too.

I am going to forget about friends for the meantime I think and just enjoy being me. :-)

I think you should do exactly this!!

the 2 examples you have used of where you feel unconfident/ as if people dont like you 'enough' is at school runs and on facebook; do NOT judge your ability to make good friends from these 2 scenarios 90% of people I know have experienced feelings of extreme wibbliness because of social interaction on the school run, including myself. And Facebook, well.....its facebook innit!

where else do you have friends? at work for example? clubs? do you know people who have shared interests? what are your interests? Have you identified people in particular who you would like to be closer friends with? What characteristics do you value in a friend? what characteristics do YOU have which you think make you a good friend?

I am definitely the Chief Norma No Mates.

Several points occur to me - first of all I do think you are over thinking things. If I talk to someone, I tend to rehash the conversation over and over, and think "Why did I say that?" or "I could have put that better" etc etc and I have to pull myself together and tell myself that the other person was highly unlikely to have been dissecting our conversation.

Also I think that some people (e.g. me!) somehow do give off negative vibes. I don't look particularly odd and I'm a fairly lively conversationalist, but I've never managed to infiltrate the school mum mafia. For some reason I'm just not their type.

I agree with bejeezus, ditch the Facebook thing - other people can see what news articles you're reading? Aarrrrggghhhh !!!!!!! and leave the school mums to it, but try to find another activity where you might meet likeminded souls. Just wild suggestions, here, but what about something like those Rock Choirs? Or if you're a SAHM, a bit of volunteering. Even if you help at the school you'll probably get to meet other helpers on a long-term basis.

One thing I am learning through experience is the more effort I make and the less selfish I am, the less people do for me and the less respect people have for me. For example earlier in the year I organised a baby shower for a friend. She didn't thank me or wish me a happy birthday when it was my birthday the following week.

I also used to do a lot of favours for friends, such as picking their children up from school for them or looking after their children if they went out at the weekend, and very rarely were any favours returned. One friend that regularly asked me to look after her child and pick her up from school would then have nights out or go on spa days with a group of mutual friends and not invite me, so I was good enough for babysitting but not good enough to go out with. So now I am good at saying no to things like that. I would rather have no friends than friends that are out for what they can get. My counsellor says saying no to people is a good way of sorting out the users from the genuine friends as the users will get the hump if you say no. Actually the friend that kept asking me did fall out with me when I said no, well she stopped talking to me and so did her husband, because I said no to picking her daughter up from school one night and taking her to brownies, as I had a hectic afternoon myself with my children.

Gramercy, I've just started a couple of potential new hobbies so fingers crossed I'll meet some like minded friends at those.

Those 'friends' pink...they sound like my sisters. Who are no longer a part of my life anymore. It's liberating when you realise what you truly have to offer..just a shame we are both in the same boat of not having it returned.

It's so liberating isn't it? I guess in life there are a lot of people that are just "takers" and if you're the kind of person that tries to please everyone (as I have been) then you end up saddled with all the takers as you're grateful for anyone who will be your friend, on any terms. Does that make sense? I think those who have only a handful of proper friends and treat the rest of the people they know as acquaintances probably sift through the takers before they decide who to be friends with.

I think I would rather give nothing to anyone these days than chance having it thrown back in my face or the recipient taking the mickey out of me. x

I think, PinkandPurple, that probably people with loads of friends fall in and out with people all the time. Those like you (and me) might set a lot of store by helping someone out, and then feel rejected if they don't appreciate your effort.

I also thoroughly understand the feeling of being someone's friend, but not at the top of their list. A while ago I visited a very good longstanding friend and spotted a picture frame bearing the words "My Best Friends" with six slots. I was not in it!! I was not in her top six!! I know it is unreasonable, perhaps, but I haven't bothered with her much since then, in spite of having precious few friends. I wonder if I'd have made "My Top 15 Friends"?!

Plus how naff was that photo frame?

I'd have been incredibly hurt at that too, even though it sounds a very cheesy photo frame. I don't blame you for not making any effort with her now. I hate things like that, so hurtful. I was good friends with someone for years, we were very close and then one day she was talking about an argument she'd had with another friend and saying "Well she's my best friend" and expecting me to comfort her.

That makes complete sense to me pink.

There are people who are just takers. I am 47 and have learned to identify them - finally - and avoid them like the plague. Helping true friends is great. But if people are always asking you to do things and not reciprocating, just say no and avoid. This is not about you as a person - takers seem to move from person to person as people get fed up with them.

Yes, they definitely do don't they? The taker and her husband that got annoyed because I wouldn't take her to brownies seem to move from person to person and base "friendships" on what they are getting out of it. For example they seem to have recently struck up a friendship with the school headteacher, and I've noticed they are trying to wheedle their way in with a family that are well off. They're very much wannabe social climbers and like to use anyone they can find as a rung on the ladder.

Well, today I am even more all for the idea of not bothering with having any friends. I went out for a drink last night with a friend, and a friend of hers that I know but not that well and guess who was left out? Me of course. Friend was asking her friend questions, anything I said would be replied with a "mmmmm" as they chatted together. I think a lot of is was to do with my state of mind too as as soon as I start to feel left out I feel annoyed inside rather than trying to turn the situation round. I guess I'm not a very interesting person, they didn't seem interested at all in what I said.

pink...my sisters used to put me down & make me believe I was boring...because I didn't like all the things they did. The best way to find like-minded people is to join a club. I like crafts/jewellery making etc & have found nice people to talk to who do seem interested. As for the 'takers'...you have realised who they are now..AVOID..AVOID..AVOID!!

There was a similar thread on here recently, and someone suggested reading 'How to Win Friends and Influence People' I think by Dale Carnegie.The poster went off and read it and came back all excited saying she felt more confident about it all. Have you tried reading anything about friendships, or has your counsellor suggested anything.

I do think it's low self esteem that is making you see things in a negative light. When I'm down at school chatting and someone breaks off to chat with a different group, I wouldn't think about it at all. I might do the same, especially if I need to arrange something, or give something to someone. If someone doesn't take me on, i don't take it personally, I know I'm not everybody's cup of tea .

I think it is harder for groups of 3 friends to socialise and 1 not to0 be left out. Is possible, but harder. It might be better to avoid socialising in 3's.

Also forgive me if I am wrong, but from what you say it sounds as if you felt excluded at the beginning and so then just excluded yourself by not making an effort. I think I used to do this a lot looking back.

Just wanted to say, that was like reading about myself which is awful. Big hugs, no advice, just wanted to say there are lots in the same boat. x

Hi pink. You sound just like me. I have few "real" friends too, and many acquiantances, none of whom I would call friends. I think there is far too much pressure to be socially "out there" today than ever before, via Facebook etc, so if i were you I would avoid this form of communication if you are sensitive about what's going on in others' lives.

I know exactly what you mean though - being nice only to be taken advantage of, being treated differently from other "friends", being excluded/ overlooked/ avoided/ not fitting in etc is pants. Personally, although I'm shy socially, I get on far better with men than with women. I'm not quite sure why - perhaps there is less small talk with them, perhaps I'm a closet flirt! - are you more comfortable perhaps with different groups of people? I get on really well with kids too - perhaps 'cos there's less at stake and they take you at face value?

Whatever the reason, I really wouldn't worry about it too much. You are obviously trying to build your self-esteem already, the mirror conversation trick sounds a great idea, and getting some hobbies where you are guaranteed to meet someone with at least something in common is sound advice too, in my view. You sound absolutely lovely to me by the way!! Wish you were my friend!

great post biryani

GREAT name Biryani too!! . I am 100% with you all. I know some people and was "in" at first but after i fell inlove with a boy in this group (who turned out to be gay) one person got jealous (she's a bad person anyway) and it all went wrong. Now i am the most controversial person walking!!!.....partly cause i stuck up for myself too...all 4ft, 9 inches of me!! . I loved this young man VERY much and so still feel hurt he ended contact with me but i've done my very best to make new friends and i'm not doing bad!!. I have hope in my heart that i'll be o.k in the end and karma will get the bad ones. But it is awful when you're left out. I'm half Asian too and the other people are all full English and so it kinda made it worse but always up for more friends so message me if anyone is lonely!!! x

Hi, I wonder if this three women thing is related to you, your ds and dm, you reliving it over and over in adult women relationships?

If there is you and one woman, and two more come over, the two near women represent one person type thing, is this making sence?

I wonder also if this friend who invited you out for a drink, played you and the other friend she had off against each other to boost her self esteem, knowing as she was the one each of you knew the best, she would be top dog!

Do you think your dm played you and your ds off against each other when you were children?

The relationship/Drama triangle seems to feature a lot in female relationships from reading your posts.

I think you sound lovely also.

Thank you again everyone for all the lovely messages and support. It's good to be able to sound off. MouseRanUpTheClock, yes that is totally it! You have hit the nail on the head, and also I think my friend was playing me and the other friend off against each other.

Thought I'd pop on with a bit of an update:

I went for another counselling session earlier in the week, which helped enormously, and my counsellor agreed that I am probably better off taking some time to myself with minimum social interaction for now. We had a chat and decided that the women at the school probably aren't worth being friends with anyway as they are so rude and cliquey, so from now on even if any of them decided they are in the mood for a chat with me, I shall just greet them with a polite "Morning, can't stop am in such a hurry today". I have also left the forum that I talked about, and that has made me feel better too. In a way it is quite a negative, cliquey place, so it's good to have left, it was getting me down more than I realised.

My counsellor and I also discussed that I really do need to start pulling people up on rudeness and that people probably do walk over me because I let them. I guess I will lose friends if I start pulling people up, but the friends I do keep and that I meet in the future will respect me more for standing up for myself. I think because my esteem was very low, I have in the past put up with any "friends" regardless of how they treat me, grateful that they want to be friends with me, but I am getting to the stage where I would rather have no friends than ones that basically shit on me.

So, I feel that I am slowly finding the real me, and I am trying to be kind to myself, I think the best thing I can do really is be my own best friend and love myself. xx

That's a great plan pink....you will find who the true friends are/will be. You are worth more than you give yourself credit..it sounds like your counsellor is very good & encouraging. Wishing you loads of luck.