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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Concerned about sister - engagement stuff

62 replies

JosieRosie · 30/11/2011 13:52

DSis has been with her DP for a couple of years. They have talked about marriage and agreed it's something they both want to do. She wants the big 'surprise' proposal though so as far as she's concerned, they're not engaged until she gets the proposal and the ring.

He told her last Xmas that he would propose before the autumn. Deadline came and went, no proposal. She called him on and it and now he says he will 'definitely' propose by March. He's adamant he does want to get married and from an outside perspective, he does seem to be crazy about her and seems like a decent bloke. She is worried he's getting cold feet about making such a 'grown-up' decision - she may be right. He's 42 by the way Hmm

Added to this, she has very fixed expectations about the ring - she's expecting him to spend 3 months salary on a rock (based on what her mates have had for their engagement rings), he was expecting to spend nowhere near this. He works full-time and has some savings but is nowhere near loaded.

Is there anything I can do? Do I tell her she needs to manage her expectations regarding the size and cost of the ring she can expect? Or do I hold my tongue and go along with it? I really would like this to work out for both of them and I think they are a great couple in many ways but I'm worried that both of them are getting very stressed out by something which should be a happy experience

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EldritchCleavage · 30/11/2011 15:26

By the time DH and I got engaged we had joint finances, so the notion of him paying for the ring was a bit silly.

These two people really really need to start talking to each other about what they want and how they feel-about each other, rings, engagements, weddings and marriage itself. If they can't do that, they should perhaps re-think the engagement idea.

FloralPrint · 30/11/2011 15:26

I don't think there is much you can do from your position. I think your sister will be disappointed but you can only help her when she's prepared to face up to the facts.

My engagement ring was around three months salary but I didn't pick it and had no expectations about it. DH isn't flashy and doesn't spend a lot of money on 'things' so it meant a lot to me that he put a lot of effort and thought into the ring as it showed he was serious.

slug · 30/11/2011 15:30

Ugh!! Any ring that cost 3 months of DH's (admittedly small) salary would be too blinging for me.

What ever happened to something you like and can wear rather than something that puts a monetary value on a relationship. That's too close to being bought for me.

moonbells · 30/11/2011 15:31

I thought it was one month's salary as well. My mum once said that's how much Dad spent on hers. They've been married 56 years so I reckon they got their money's worth!

I got the ring I wanted; the fact it cost just under his then month's salary was coincidence. And I still love it. (I designed it when I was a student, years before I met DH. He got it made . He did comment that surely he should be designing my ring. I retorted that if he wanted a massive dragon ring (don't ask) he could jolly well wear it and I'd pay for it. So that's what we did Grin)

sarahtigh · 30/11/2011 15:32

the most i heard of was one months salary, my parents got engaged in 1966 my dad says a weeks wage bought a suit for work/church now I think a decent suit would cost £150-200 (bespoke obviously more) so 4 x that is 600-800 which is more than enough for a very very nice ring I think when they got married my dad was on about £1000 a year so £80 would be a months wages,

Today 3 months wages even on minimum wage would be £2949(before tax) which is a stupid amount to spend on a ring

I think your sister needs to grow up and think does she want DP or his money

teacoupons · 30/11/2011 15:37

Three months salary? Wow.

I agree, he's probably scared shitless!

pooka · 30/11/2011 15:41

Blimey.

I think if I were the dp I would be having serious second thoughts. It doesn't sound romantic or heartfelt. It sounds more like the proposal has been reduced to a transaction - cost of ring, has to be proper proposal, giving deadlines and so on.

Very joyless and lacking in fun.

My ring cost not even a month's salary, but then is very plain (small diamonds set into a platinum band. I don't like big jewellery that would catch on things and get in the way).

JosieRosie · 30/11/2011 15:48

I agree about her expectations being way OTT. I also think that sitting around with her thumb up her bum waiting for him to propose, all the while blowing a gasket about why he hasn't proposed, is no way to conduct any healthy relationship. The problem is, I feel so strongly about all this that I'm wary of taking over and telling her off. It is her life and she has different ideas to me and that's ok, so maybe I should just stay out of it??

Or - maybe I can gently suggest that (surely) getting married is much more important that what she wears on her hand. Really not sure if will make any difference though Sad

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blackteaplease · 30/11/2011 15:56

If she is so bothered about being married, why doesn't she propose to hi, then they can choose the ring together. Although that wouldn't meet the romantic expectations.

blackteaplease · 30/11/2011 15:56

hi, = him sorry

JosieRosie · 30/11/2011 15:59

blacktea, there's a better chance of pigs flying! As you say, it doesn't fit with the 'romantic expectations'. FGS, I have these bloody nonsensical traditions! 'Waiting' for the proposal was part and parcel of life in a Jane Austen novel, but this is 2011 FFS - makes me scream Angry

I may have to start a thread on the feminist boards Smile

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youtalkintome · 30/11/2011 16:02

She needs to decide what's important a ring or a wedding, we would seriously struggle to save 1 months salary never mind 3, Dh only proposed to me after he got his bonus from work and could spend it all an a ring. That's a lot of pressure.

AutumnFalls · 30/11/2011 16:05

is she hung up on the COST of the ring or the size of the ring? Because I love jewellery, and we went to a little auction down South and bought an antique diamond ring for 700 pounds that was then independently valued for insurance at 4,600. It is a BIG diamond, and people do comment about how lovely it is. (It is, sigh, I LOVE it).

Tell them to do that if the size is the issue. If she just wants him to spend alot, then no wonder he is balking.

MrsHoarder · 30/11/2011 16:06

How well do you know him? Could you ring him up (when you know she won't be aorund) and offer to help him find something that's in budget and to your sister's taste?

Its likely he'll refuse, but the nature of his refusal might tell you something about what's going on. Or if you don't know him (and hence how the relationship works) that well you could leave a pair of grown-ups to negotiate their own relationship.

JosieRosie · 30/11/2011 16:11

AutumnFalls, she keeps on about the 3 month salary thing so I think that's at least as big a factor as the size of the ring.

MrsHoarder, that's a good idea, but I don't know him that well (he doesn't even know that I've been privvy to all these discussions about rings!) and they are in a different country to me. I won't be seeing them until February, and according to the timetable, he should have proposed by then! I hope he does, but for the right reasons, and without bankrupting himself!

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difficulttimes · 30/11/2011 16:11

Hmm they both sound immature tbh, 42 , would this be a first marriage for him??

your sis sounds materialistic tbh.

JosieRosie · 30/11/2011 16:12

I agree difficulttimes Sad

Yes, first marriage for both. He has been in an 8 year relationship previously.

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ChristinedePizanne · 30/11/2011 16:23

My dad spent 3 months' salary on my mum's engagement ring but they've been married 61 years and were both still living at home.

I hate to say this about your sister but it sounds like she needs to grow up a bit.

difficulttimes · 30/11/2011 16:39

Hmmm mnaybe he just doesnt want to get married but is too scared to say it.

purplepidjin · 30/11/2011 16:42

I found and DP bought my ring 18 months ago, we've been together 2 years next month.

It's still not on my finger because I haven't been asked yet; apparently it's not the right time as he's just been made redundant i doubt I'll see it for a good while

I don't reallly give a flying fuck because DP is here, and he's here to stay. The rings and the weddings are just a good excuse for a piss up with mates and give my Gran something to gossip about with her mates

£375 of platinum and diamond chips in the sale. Probably about 2 weeks salary.

TheLastChocolate · 30/11/2011 20:09

I just had a question pop into my head, OP.

If the man bought her a modest, not too expensive ring. Proposed to her, said heartfelt declarations of lasting love etc etc would your sis throw the ring in his face and storm off?

I wonder whether she has said to him that it has to be 3 months salary? If I were a man and had a girlfriend say that to me I'd feel in need of a serious chat and reassessing the relationship, sorry.

meltedchocolate · 30/11/2011 20:17

You should do nothing. It is not your relationship.

HumanFly · 30/11/2011 20:35

My husband spent 3 months salary on my ring. He didn't want to tell me but I needed the papers for insurance so he had to.

But the back story is this: I knew from the moment I met him that I wanted to marry him. I've loved him from the first few weeks, and him me. But we've had so many problems, so much heart ache, so many almost-break ups. We wanted the same things but there just seemed to be so much in the way. We're both insecure, stubborn, prone to navel-gazing, and unfortunately both the product of messy divorces that shaped us as individuals.

Three years ago we talked about getting married but ahh, it was always with an element of fear. He's pretty traditional and we've done well in our careers but I wouldn't say we're affluent. But he fretted, caring too much about what other people thought. In the last year I just thought, screw it - I love you, you're the one for me. I don't care about anything, I just want you. I must have said a hundred times I didn't care about the ring, the ridiculous expectations of celebrity-style weddings and what-not. I told him to not let his ideas of my expectations get in the way of our future. I told him to get me a zirconia, a freakin' plastic ring, whatever, I didn't care! Just marry me. It made me so sad the things he thought I deserved were not things I cared about. I only wanted him, to call him my husband, to be his wife and everything that meant to the two of us.

Then one day he surprised me with the ring - emerald cut because he knew I preferred it (but had no expectation of!), with papers proving its origin (this was super important for me), and platinum. I mean God! For me, he went all out.

I know this sounds like bragging, but really I don't mean to. I'm just trying to get across - weddings, marriage, engagement rings - they should never be about any amount of money. We got married for under £500, me wearing a dress from Matissimo Dutti. I never wanted anything but to marry him - of course, I had daydreams and wished money was no object. But those months leading up to his proposal, the only thing I wanted him to believe was that loving him, being with him and getting to marry him was more than anything I could have hoped for. When I asked him why he spent so much, that I hoped he didn't do it to because he felt he had to, he reassured me that he knew what I wanted, but in the end felt I should have something beautiful anyway so it's all worth it to him.

I think maybe your sister is placing a value on his love out of insecurity. If he spends this much, he REALLY loves me. But that can't be conjured up and coerced out of the other person. This poor guy, I feel for him. Deadlines and price tags - it's too much. What's the point - as everyone else has said, what is the actual reason for getting married? Keeping up with Jones'? I wish we could all talk to her and say if you really love this guy, if he's the one for you, none of that stuff matters. It really doesn't - I might have this ring beautiful ring that I love and am grateful for, but it's super cheap white gold band that warms the cockles of my heart.

JosieRosie · 30/11/2011 21:22

'I wonder whether she has said to him that it has to be 3 months salary?

She has told him TheLastChoc. I think he almost collapsed in shock, he was thinking he would need to spend about £500 rather thann £5,000! But she hasn't adjusted her expectations at all. She can't understand how he could be so 'thick' i.e. not knowing the going rate for an engagement ring.

It doesn't sound great I know!

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JosieRosie · 30/11/2011 21:24

HumanFly, that's a lovely story, your ring sounds fab Smile You're right - she needs to realise that demanding a certain price tag is unfair and is missing the poiint of marriage

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