I need to confront my best friend - for me I think it's friendship over. (LONG)

[auburnlizzy78]

Just asking if her behaviour is as poor as I think it is and that I'm not about to end a 15 year friendship over nothing.

We have been friends since the sixth form, lived together for a bit, always had a laugh and been there for each other through the bad times (illness, bereavement, relationships etc). We live about 80 miles apart now but relationship always been rock solid and we have always called each other our best friend. She was chief BM at my wedding in 2007, I was at hers this year. I had my DS in October 2010, she has no kids yet.

I have had terrible PND arising from PTSD after the birth due to sleep deprivation and poor post natal care. Prescribed ADs in July 2011 - now recovering and feeling much brighter. She has followed it all via my status updates on FB (one of the main ways me and my old schoolmates and new mum/dad friends communicate and share war stories as it's not always easy these days to meet up!), I did not say I had PND but it was VERY obvious what a tough time we were having with the baby. She never ONCE emailed, texted or phoned to ask how I was. Other friends knew and I find it impossible that it would not have come up in conversation amongst the group. Instead we talked about her wedding - I ended up, despite being actually quite ill, organising two hen dos in two separate cities for her (and you know how much work they can be), taking the time to be there whenever she needed me for dress fittings, advice etc. I asked her if she was really busy with the wedding but she always said it was fine and there wasn't much to do. She went from telling me about the minutiae to telling me nothing at all, not telling me she was moving house until it came up when we were with a group of friends - we used to share everything. The wedding day itself was great and I plastered on a big smile but I was under terrible strain - by then I had actually told myself that I was just going to get through her wedding, and then planned to go away and commit suicide. June, July and parts of August were hell on earth and I don't know how I'm still here.

I did tell her I had been driven to consider suicide, later in September when we were talking about her SIL who had just had a baby and who I was worried about being treated crappily in hospital - I told her about my PTSD etc. No response. My son has recently been quite ill and I posted on FB about him being given an emergency nebuliser in hospital., ventolin etc. No response. I know she saw it because over the next couple of hours and days there were multiple posts about how she'd gone to Westfield and bought some fantastic purple shoes - finally, five days later when we all met up she finally asked how DS was.

In the meantime, despite my own problems, I have multiple examples of still being there myself for other friends, travelling three hours to visit their sick parents in hospital, giving gifts, sending texts. She's been "sooooo busy" - post after post about how TIRED she is rehearsing for her am dram dance shows, plenty of time to post and comment on other people's updates but absolute, very obvious, radio silence to anything I put up - even photos of my son. She has no fertility problems that we know of, they aren't trying for a child so it can't be anything to do with that?

The absolute last straw however has been her "shockened and saddened" outpourings after the recent death of Gary Speed, about how she wants to help highlight awareness of depression, we must be understanding of people with the condition, mustn't judge, must be there for them, how tragic, how we don't know what's going on in people's heads etc etc, and people purring back at her "beautifully put", "completely agree" - WHERE WAS SHE WHEN I NEEDED HER? Fucking nowhere. One post on the subject was irritating. Three in four days has had me about to put my computer through the window.

If you got to the end well done. Is this a friendship worth keeping? If I confront her it will never be the same again, but I can't just let it die away gradually with her carrying on in blissful ignorance.

sounds like you have grown apart... although a friend in a similar situation (ignoring everything to do with her baby, pregnancy, PND etc) - did confront her friend, which lead to a huge outpouring about how she had had an abortion and couldn't cope with all she had given up/missed out on etc... just a though...

Lizzie - I have to disagree with you when you say she 'should' have known what you are going through. What seems really obvious to you may well not be so to her. We are all busy with our own lives, our own concerns etc, and it is not fair to expect someone to see behind the mask, beyond the facebook status updates to the real issues.

Tell her plainly how bad things are - write her a long letter/email/fb message or ring her up and pour it all out to her, and see how she reacts when the facts are given to her unequivocally and clearly.

I too would be very upset. But perhaps you weren't communicating properly? FB is no substitute for picking up the phone and telling someone how you feel. But I agree that it is hurtful when you've been through so much and your best friend doesn't appear to notice. Speak to her when you're feeling calm - it may be the end of the friendship but it might also be a new beginning :)

it sounds to me like she was resentful about your child taking up your time. Its very existence even. Sometimes people just have no idea until they themselves have a child... (been there)

i think your relationship has already changed because of this. it'll take a long time for you to forgive her for not being there at the worst time.

the only chance now is to ask her face to face what's going on. don't do it on facebook / phone / texting. perhaps she'll have a good reason which will give you reason in turn to move on from it. without this conversation you'll fester and feel bitter, not only for her bad treatment but because you haven't stood up for yourself.

it might be that she is an insensitive cow in which case your relationship isn't what you thought anyway.

sorry about your pnd. it is absolutely crap. i'm glad you've got other friends who are supporting you adequately.

I know this will sound extreme, but does she have some very serious issues of her own that you are perhaps unaware of? If she is so interested in depression and suicide as an issue perhaps she has suffered herself (or someone close to her - husband maybe?) and just hasn't been able to help you.

I'm only saying this because I had a very very close friend whom I lived with for several years and we were like 2 parts of one person. We fell out of touch after a couple of years of leaving university and I always blamed it on her DH not liking me. I sent them a wedding invitation and just got a 'decline' card back. Felt gutted etc and only this week read in an online news article that a mutual uni friend sent to me that her DH was sent to prison for 14 years for sex offences 2 years ago - 3 months after our wedding. I now feel like a total shit for being so upset that she didn't send me a wedding card. It must have been utter torture for her just to deal with sending a decline card ffs .

So I'm just saying I suppose that if you don't see her every day you just never know what is going on in her life. If she has been a good friend to you for many years then don't ditch her just yet. You know her, we don't. Is she a bad person? Or is there potentially more to her reaction (or lack of) to your depression than you know about?

Eeek - you do sound like the sort of person who has negative moany fb status updates all the time. I have a dear friend like that, and much as I love her, I never comment on her fb stuff, as the continual whining is very off putting. Soz and all that....but I cba with it.

maybe your pal is like me in that respect?

OP, I have had a similar situation happen to me and TBH I was her at one point and now I'm you... I will give you the benefit of my experience.

I had a very close friend who I had been friends with for 15 years. Even when we moved 200 miles away from each other I would always stay at hers when I went up to her location on business and we would have a great time. I would also spend weekends with her and that would be fab.

Then she had a baby. I was planning my wedding and she was my Matron-of-Honour. I never really clicked with her DS for some reason - never have been able to work out why - but instantly things changed. She met other friends through her Antenatal classes and because I lived so far away, they became very close. But I always got up to see her as often as I could. She would post a lot on FB about life with her DS and all her new friends would comment, but I would feel left out. I couldn't relate to her status updates because I didn't have a child. (A bit like your friend).

Then I got married and she was wonderful, organising my hen-dos etc, even though she was PG again.

A couple of months after I got married I fell PG. I was so excited and after DH and my Mum, she was the first person I told. Then I suffered an MC. Other than a text to say "sorry", I didn't hear anything else from her. 6 weeks later I was PG again. This time I didn't tell her. I was really hurt and angry that she couldn't be there for me when I went through such a traumatic time. I phoned her daily when she was PG with her first and she was clearly too busy having fun with her friends to do that for me. I was really disappointed.

Now, we exhange cards at Xmas and on birthdays and that's it. Our lives have changed. I now have 3 very close friends with DCs the same age as our DD so things change.

Try not to take it to heart. Stay friends, but at a distance. One day you may need each other again. These things happen.

Are you sure she didn't 'hide' your post on fb?

Lots of people do this with friends who put baby stuff on their status. (not that you are wrong to do that or anything)

Is she maybe ttc? Maybe she's had a miscarriage or something which makes interacting with someone with a baby hard?

Mental ill health is still a taboo subject. People find it easier to talk about it in an abstract sense ie in relation to celebs, they dont know what words to use with someone irl iykwim? She is maybe embarassed that she didnt know how to broach this subject with you, she maybe felt unqualified as some one who has never had a baby/pnd?

You need to talk to her face to face (alone with no baby), I dont think this is worth ending a friendship over. Most people do experience a fading or pre-baby friendships for a while post birth, you have to give it time and space.

"She has no fertility problems that we know of, they aren't trying for a child so it can't be anything to do with that?"

Well you don't know that for sure do you.

Could you not just tell her how hurt and generally pissed off you feel. Give her a chance to understand and say sorry if she wishes too. It might be just she has a thick skin and is a bit self-absorbed but would be mortified if she know how upset you were.

And stay of FB. It never seems to end well....

I agree with fuzzy that you come across as being hostile to your friend which, given your list of grievances against her, is entirely understandable.

As marmite has suggested, it may be that the friendship has run its course but I'm not convinced that confrontation is the way to mark or remark on it at the present time.

Although you say that 'I can't just let it die away gradually with her carrying on in blissful ignorance' I would suggest that when formerly close and long-standing friendships appear to have cooled the best way forward is to let them go quietly as there is always the possibility, however remote it may seem, that they may be revived at some future date, at which time whatever occurences may have caused its demise can be discussed without rancour clouding any tentative resurrection.

I would suggest that you concentrate your energies on your family and the forthcoming festive season, and review your feelings about your friend in the New Year if you should still feel the need to scrutinise what appears to you to be her inexplicable behaviour.

It is of course particularly galling that, having failed to be there for you in your hour of need, she's garnering sympathy over the suicide of a public figure but, IMO, this is one to be filed away for future reference and recalled if and when you meet again.

this sounds like me an an ex friend. I told her everything that was occuring in my life which went to the point of an overdose. Her response "ah". Then she chundered on about her house and things. Has made no mention of it or anything pertaining to my mental health since.
Just not sexy
Just not about her
I got angry and got over it.

Thank you all so much for taking the time to comment and share your experiences - sorry I had to go off line - baby woke up and then we had to go out.

Drip feed, sorry, I didn't think this was relevant but maybe it is. At first, when I was first pg, I was extremely sensitive with her in case she was feeling "weird" about me having a baby. There is a backstory but it's not mine to share on a public forum. Put it this way, there were lots of conversations at the time and I have surreptitiously kept a close eye on her for the last couple of years and seen NO signs of her NOT being ok. She is often very emotional when drunk and nothing came out even then. Sorry I have to be cryptic. She has never spoken to any other member of the group about having a hard time, and we have had a veritable army of new babies over the last couple of years between us. Her mother and I are (were) close and I know she would have mentioned to me if there was still an issue, but there has been no indication of any problem for at least 18 months. She told us a few weeks ago they were going to wait to have kids for a couple of years. I am as sure as I can possibly be that there is no emotionally unresolved past stuff or other problems going on which would explain her behaviour.

Thank you all again for giving me a lot to think about before confronting her. I feel shaky and panicky at the thought - furious as I am on paper I am a total wuss in the flesh at this sort of thing. Can't remember ever having a confrontation with a friend in my whole adult life.

I had similar issues with a close friend that threatened to ruin our friendship (also had PND and a sick child, then found out my DS had autims and felt I got zero support from a life long friend ). I cannot tell you how many times I came this close to kicking her out of my life. In the end, I hung on in there.

She has just had her first baby and needs me. I thought I might feel 'Ha! Now you know how it feels!' but instead, I have felt huge compassion for her and been there for her through all of her ups and downs... and our friendship has strengthened beyond anything I could ever have expected. She actually said to me a few weeks ago (tearfully) 'I am so, so sorry I wasn't there for you when you had your first baby. I had no idea how hard it would be'. And rather than feel bitter, I felt huge relief. She finally understands, and our friendship is better for it.

Maybe cool things with her for a while for your own sanity? But I would urge you not to trash your friendship in anger. Relationships do go through ups an downs over the years, but one day soon things may get back to being great. You just never know...

autism

I think she doesn't know how to handle your severe depression. And why should she?

You don't sound hostile but you do sound very sad and angry.

The first thing that struck me- and others it seems- was the reliance on FB to keep in touch with friends. I am really old....although I am on FB but rarely use it. I find it very off putting and actually immature that so many people use it as a stage for the minutae of their lives- especially when it's a public and possibly insecure forum.

So for that reason, something makes me think you ought to cut her some slack if your anger is based on her lack of responses to FB posts.

On the other hand, there is nothing like a wedding and a birth to test friendships. One of my closest friends- my BM and godmother to my son- has no children of her own and we have often almost come to blows over the years at her lack of understanding over motherhood. I had 2 operations when my kids were toddlers- DH had to work from home for 6 weeks- and she was nowhere to be seen. Sure she lived an hour away but I could have done with a helping hand.

I forgave her, but all I can say is that over the years our friendship has been tested and mainly in my opinion by her self-centredness, or lack of empathy.

If you have to talk to her then do so- but you have to accpet it may end it all for good.

Your other option is to shrug, accept it and simply stop contacting her or thinking of her as a friend.

Not read back properly BUT

FACEBOOK is evil, as is texting and e-mails - face to face conversation is the only way to gauge a true response or reaction accurately. The interweb is a convenient way to maintain contact, BUT the written word can be interpreted so many different ways by the person reading it.......

From what I've read (not all of the thread), my advice would be to let the friendship run its natural course. Don't contact her. She probably won't contact you.

Don't waste any more time, or more importantly, emotional energy on her.

x

Tbh, I wouldn't end the friendship, just let it drift a little. You might find if she has a child of her own you'll be on the same page again. It's difficult to understand and engage with being a new parent if you're not one, and maybe if there's this backstory, she doesn't want to think about what it's like.

I can understand how hurtful you find it, but if you have expected her to read between the lines and she didn't pick up on it, that's not really her fault.

If you've just come out of pnd I strongly advise you not to confront your friend at the present time and, more particularly, not if you feel 'shaky and panicky' at the thought.

When you're in an emotionally stronger place, and when you are feeling less angry with her, quietly reflect on what benefits you will gain from any confrontation and how you may feel if she does not respond positively to your criticism of her behaviour.

Oh dear, yep, avoid the FBers that whine/moan/feel sorry for themselves all the time. Why put it on FB other than to get attention? As much as you care about someone, if they are depressed some people just cant handle it.

I dated a depressed man, it just made me fall into a horrible pit of depression. My councillor told me at the time to avoid depressives because I couldn't handle them. Maybe she just can't handle you? (through no fault of her own) Maybe she is scared that every time you talk to her it will be about something else that you find depressing? Which it does look like to be honest.

Best of luck with your recovery,
sounds like ye have nothing in common but the past-let it be for now and maybe when she has kids ye'll pick up again.
Maybe when she sees you getting so much support on fb from similar people she feels you don't need advise from one who knows nothing of your struggle.
Friendships do evolve with the arrival of husband and kids........up to you if you'll go with it or not

I am sorry, that sounded very blunt and cruel but try to understand that it can be hard to deal with someone that is as depressed as you are. When you feel more stable maybe it will be a friendship you can return to? Or maybe if you feel the need to have only friends that you can share this stuff with you should ditch her.

I agree with meltedchocolate, I've been that friend, me being dragged down into depression too wouldn't help either of us, sometimes people forget quite how much close friends can go through things with you and sometimes as the friend you have to draw a line.

I've done the not telling about moving house thing, to be honest I couldn't take the texts about how lucky I was in comparision any more!

Take time and see how it pans out