I don't know, I'm at a total loss :(

[Chocolokka]

Hi all, this may be a very confusing and very long post......................

Had a terrible agrguement with my h last night, we have been having disagreements for the last two months, not about the same subject and not concurrently but a lot more than we would normally fight.

We have been married 10 years and have 2 darling children, ds 4 and dd 6months.
Our first problem:
We used to have a great sex life. Obviously having young children kills spontaneity and I acknowledge through tiredness etc that we both have become a bit lazy. I didn't have a high sex drive whilst I was pregnant this time but had a very high one on my first pregnancy. So h is not to blame for lack of sex in that period although I did perform certain things for him so on some level we had been intimate. My huge gripe with my h is that he doesn't ever want to kiss or cuddle me ever, maybe if there was a celebration of some kind. When we hold hands it's me who reaches for his and even though he denies it, he seems to be itching to let go as soon as he can. Kissing is a big no no, a snog is definitely out of the question ( maybe what he says is true, married couples don't song - honestly don't know, I would be too embarrassed to ask any of my married friends) even when we do have sex the kissing part ( which I used to really enjoy and really helps to get me in the mood) is over in less than a minute. I have asked my h why he doesn't like kissing me etc do I have bad breath etcI actually now don't enjoy the little bit we do do(which at the moment could be as little 1/month).

As I said earlier h thinks this is normal after 10 years, it's not as good and as exciting as it once was or would be with a new partner. I don't agree, some people think as your emotional bond deepens that maybe the ripping off stage goes but that the sex can still be amazing and often better with someone you have a deep connection with. I have asked him he thinks he has low sex drive, he claims no. So I guess this is my major issue with him and I have caused problems recently because of it. I have not outright accused him of an affair but I have asked if there is someone else, men usually want a lot of sex so my thought was, well he seems to like sex, talks about attractive movie stars, he will watch a program about sex on the tv etc he doesn't want me is it because he's getting else where, he denies any such thing categorically. There is no other evidence, he leaves his phone around, we know all each others passwords for email accounts except his work one which is in his office. I lost all the baby weight, I have a little loose skin on my belly which I am very self conscious about, I'm not unattractive and I'm younger( not substantially) than him. I would never dream of having an affair but I feel really sad at the lack of touch and I feel so unloved and I would love to feel desired by the man I love and whom normally I desire and fancy.

2nd problem;

Yesterday I heard news which I was expecting, it is going to majorly change all of our lives, not altogether negatively but not the best thing for our family. Nobody is sick or dying or anything like that. It was nothing my h has control over and it was not his fault. I felt really down over it yesterday, I was down and h kept saying, we must be positive.....of course he is right we can't change it but just for one day/couple of hours I felt sad and couldn't just immediately say ok well that's that nothing can be done, put a smile on my face and make the most of it. Today maybe but definitely by next week I would have brushed myself down and got on with it. Last night when I made a comment about the situation, had just read something relevant to the situation on the web, my h became furious with me, literally roaring like a lion, kicked the the table violently in front of him and threw something else across the room ( not characteristically like him btw) shouting that I'm such a negative person, complain about everything, I literally couldn't say anything right. I'm no saint I have been fighting with him a lot recently not always the cause of it but I have complained that in the last 6 months I have had 3 evenings of 1.5hrs to myself and on each evening when I returned I returned to chaos and I have said that I was disappointed. My h went away with his friends last week over night to see a game, and I had to deal with that, I don't think he really appreciates me at all. He has said that he would never leave me because of the kids, I am really beginning to wonder is it over, if we didn't have children Would he be gone. I've told him he's not doing the family/children any favors by staying just so they don't grow up in a broken home, children sense problems and of course the elder one would be devastated if we did separate but I think two parents happily living apart is better that two bitter ones together and I do worry that maybe I am becoming bitter. I'm exhausted and freezing cold and my heart is just so heavy and sad. I thought maybe writing it down might help but maybe I do sound very me me me.

Thanks if you've got this far :(

You sound like someone who is feeling very unloved at the moment :(

Whatever the problem is with the situation you have explained, it sounds like your DH is feeling very defensive about it. He shouldn't have got so angry with you and snapped but it sounds as if you are going through a tricky patch (new baby/lack of communication/the problem you talked about) and so I think try not to over analyse it as he is human too. Obviously if there is a pattern to him behaving like this then that is a different matter.

With regards to your sex life, you have only recently had a new baby and it can take a while to get in the swing of things again. Life can feel so serious when you have children and problems. I don't know what to suggest though, I am sure someone will come along with advice on that front.

Thank you SaggyHairyArse,

I appreciate your response. Yes I'll try not to over analyze his behavior last night, I think he may have been holding in his own disappointment and then blew a fuse (which I said is very uncharacteristic).

I suppose I'm just exhausted, obviously as a sahm I do the bulk of the work in the home and then I have only spent four hours totally alone in 6 months. I feel resentful that h can come and go without worrying about childcare where as it's no so easy for me to arrange. I must work on my resentment before I push him away altogether.

Totally agree with you on the sex front, my libido totally recovered a good while back, maybe it's a confidence thing now. A couple of weeks ago we had another fight and he slept in the spare room after the issue was resolved I was suggestively saying I was glad he was returning to our bed that night. As it turned out h said he was really tired so we just went to sleep. An hour or so later I woke to find h pleasing himself, I didn't let on to be awake, he stopped and when I remained still he resumed. In the olden days he would've woken me which I would've welcomed. Or if we had a regular sex life I wouldn't have minded not being disturbed, but, it was his first night back and it made me really sad. I said it the next morning, initially he said he didn't see the problem, claimed that he thought I hadn't been interested earlier but I was definitely being suggestive earlier..... he apologized for being insensitive but I can't help wondering about who he was thinking of? Maybe I'm just over analyzing again.
:(

Sounds like one of the underlying problems is lack of communication...10years and two kids in, it's easy for you both to slip into the assumption that you know what each other are thinking/feeling, and also time is so short that communication shrinks to "have you paid the council tax/can you make parents' evening/ when exactly is your mother arriving"

Can I please suggest that you get hold of 'The Sixty Minute Marriage' book by Rob Parsons..about £6.00 and just worth its weight in gold. (I'm not on commission btw!)

It sounds as if you are having a really difficult time and I am sorry for that, but good on you for trying to think things through and you obviously have a real desire to make things work for the future. Do you know a couple you think highly of, with an older family, who have 'been there' already?
I think you'll find your situation's much more common that you fear (otherwise there wouldn't be a whole marriage support industry out there....)
Hope it goes well

Thanks Timetosmile,

I just bought that book on Kindle on your recommendation, will hop into bed soon and read it.

I don't want to bore everyone but, a couple of mornings later I switched on our joint home laptop and website similar to this type of one was open with a post written by my h asking advice for a female friend of his. He doesn't mention in the post who the friend is and as he doesn't have any friends that I know that fit the description of the one he was talking about. Anyway I got a bit of a fright, after the incident in bed a few nights previously, and then he stayed up late on the comp. I rang him at work and in fairness I did "who were you talking about with such and such..." and he nearly went mental, he couldn't understand that I was feeling vulnerable. It was a colleague.. I don't know I have this nagging doubt about his fidelity to me which I can't get out of my mind, maybe I have gone completely mad, I don't know....I have no reason to doubt him except in another longterm relationship he cheated a lot and I'm worried he feels bored with me and he will now do the same......

I had better read your book :)

There is more to this than meets the eye.
I would be concerned about his fidelity.
There is no way that my guy would pleasure himself if I was next to him and had been suggestive. You are obviously a loving person, who misses intimacy with your DH, and it is just not natural that he doesn't kiss you, this in itself is a bad sign, and if he truly believes that people don't kiss after a certain number of years together, then he is in denial about a lot of healthy, loving relationships out there where a lot of kissing is going on.
A lot of you ladies put up with things that I would knock on the head in an instant, wouldn't put up with, and this non-kissing thing is so rude, so hurtful and not healthy.
Computers..the net...whilst they provide people with outlets like this - and I love this site, it is wonderful that those with problems or who merely seek parenting advice, can come to such a place to release - well, outside of the education we can gain from using the net, it is also a place that can spell disaster for relationships, what with sneaky stuff going on between people - it is easy to get a man's attention with a few suggestive emails or 'updates', and I don't know but I wouldn't rule out, that your guy is involved with something on the side, and I'd stop accepting his excuses about the non-kissing (can't believe that one) and the lack of intimacy based upon how long you've been together, because men, on the whole, never lose their libido, never.
Ah, once again, a lovely, caring woman being treated like crap by her partner. Grrrr.

Thanks for your imput Barreal.....sometimes I'm convinced that there is something more to it to, but I have nothing only a gut instinct or maybe it's just a lack of sleep...dd was awake a lot last night so dh went to the spare room and I woke with a pain in my stomach after dreaming he admitted an affair. Seriously over tired, maybe I could just be depressed and focusing negative energy on my relationship but I think deep down that I know my h doesn't really love me anymore :(

What was the problem that he was asking advice for ?
Really feel for you as it sounds like you still really love him.
Am sure he still really loves you too but is maybe taking you for granted or you just need to try and reawaken his desire for you. Sex is not love though.
You have both got to want to make it work though it cannot be all one sided.

Yes, I wondered, too, what advice he was asking for and what the response was, too.

The thing is though, if it's a site like this, it wouldn't be a colleague answering, would it? (Looking over shoulder!)

It's a hard fact that you have to face (as I did) that the reason your husband isn't having sex with you or kissing you is because he doesn't want to. In my case, it was because he was being unfaithful. In fact, for every friend that's happened to (where the man is obviously sexually active on his own) it's been the same. I'm not saying your husband is being unfaithful, just that it's something to question, maybe.

Thanks Kerstina, it wasn't so much a problem, he was searching for some info for her. He has helped her out on two occasions recently- not work related. no biggie under normal circumstances. Her husband is away a lot with work and one day I jokingly said "don't become a shoulder for her to cry on...that will only lead to trouble...if you do anything inappropriate because you become too close, I had have already warned you and I won't forgive you..." we were both kinda laughing about it I said it would be no joke if he had to move out and rent somewhere whilst supporting us...he said well she's pretty well off so he'd live comfortably with her!! I was a little taken aback, it's one thing to have a brief fling( not undermining the unbearable pain it would cause but if they regretted it...) but to actually imagine moving in and setting up camp with her family! He said he said it because the idea of an affair with her was so outrageous it deservedcan outrageous response. Maybe that's what led to my dream. Anyway he brought her to the place she needed to go to to sort her problem even though it was not romantic I dissapproved, and he said he didn't understand my problem as everyday he could have lunch and coffees with her and he wouldn't need to tell me if he wasup to no good. Now she's not on the scene long and our sex life has been a problem longer I think although the distance between us is more of a recent thing. I try to talk to him about our relationship when we are not having problems just to try and improve communication. He lies on one couch in the evening so he effectively has his back to me. I sat next to him recently and he said ah don't sit there. I told him yesterday that that made me sad, he said he wants to cuddle watching movies so I asked what's stopping him then? If he sits next to me tonight, it will feel forced, I feel like I'm begging him and that will only make me more resentful, shouldn't it come naturally, after all I still love and need him and I've been married or 10 years too. Do you think counselling would help?

Thanks Imperialblether,

Believe me it's something I question all the time. I will never know unless he tells. He insists he isn't so I have to take his word, there are no other clues. Sorry to hear about your own situation, did your h confess.
I don't want to say the problem incase (paranoid) it gives the anonymity away, it wasn't romantic but it would be something maybe a boyfriend or the husband might normally take car of, not your colleague whom you don't really know even though my h has an interest in this area. Sorry I know that's not very clear.

Yes I was going to suggest counselling in my post but forgot definitely worth a go.
May be you need to make him a bit jealous or have a talk to him and ask him how he would feel if you got so close to another man and helped them out in the way he has. I think jealousy is a good indicator of whether someone really cares but on the other hand a lot of relationships can turn into more like friendships as its natural over time and you both have to remember how you felt when you first met each other ,remind him

Having been through a marriage breakdown myself, which began with lack of communication & quality time then a total lack of intimacy (my fault entirely) I would advise that you tackle this with gusto...as it is very hard to rekindle after a long time! In my case I loved him very much but felt so distant & had PND so I just pushed & pushed him away until he stopped trying to talk about things & stopped trying to initiate moments of intimacy because he could'nt take the rejection anymore. I so wish to do this day we had some councilling & attepted to save our marriage but I was so wrapped up in myself & my issues it did'nt even occur to me we had a problem. He is the love of my life & no man will ever love me like he did but we needed help & no one told us we did!

Thanks Kerstina and Belleromford for your replies.

Firstly I do try to entice him, I bought sexy lingerie and dressed up for him, it worked but I can't dress up for him all the time. I have never rejected him sexually in our whole marriage except recently once when he just said "fancy a bit of action" and expected me to be in the mood. He has rejected me a lot more than that, also I initiate sex 8 times out of 10. Also I ask him regularly to discuss things, it's never the right time and then when we agree on a time he just laughs and has a million excuses, the baby, tiredness, illnesses(coughs and colds- nothing serious). I told him I want to talk later, I don't know what to say though. I really need to know if there has been someone else but I don't want to make him really angry either and start another fight.

BelleRomford, I'm sorry your marriage broke down, is there any chance of a reconciliation ?

Hi OP,

Tbh, i am so sad to be reading your post, you sound like such a lovely lady who is putting in 110% and getting little or nothing out of it.

You deserve to be cuddled and kissed, it's such an important part of a marriage and it takes just 10 seconds to feel secure again. If you told H this and he still doesnt oblidge then he sounds like an insensitive dickhead.

The masterbating thing is completely rude, if you had an active sex life and he was doing it on the side I would think it was natural but to be choosing his hand over you is insane!!

He sounds shady, if it was me I would say 'I have been trying so hard with you and I feel I have nothing in return, I married you for a reason and it wasnt so you could sleep in the spare bed and give me a complex'
'We need to either have some counciling (as MNetters have suggested) or you need to get your stuff and move out'

A trump card to use would be, 'how would you feel is DD was being treated the way you treat me' It puts it in a harsh perspective

Why, should you spend one minute with someone who isn't giving you the honesty and respect you deserve.

wooh, sorry for going all girl power there

Thanks for your response Bubbaganoosh.

Well I had a chat with H, and I was able to remain very calm which I think I can attribute to you ladies for letting me vent, so thank you very much.

The conversation went well, we discussed a lot of issues. H took on board everything I said and acknowledged my hurt and sadness. He took responsibility for not being affectionate....says he is still in love with me and does still fancy me. He felt familiarity and routine have played a part in our dwindling sex life. I don't excite him a little but less than I did before. I told him I found this hurtful as I still found him as attractive and as exciting and I make the effort buy sexy lingerie etc to please him and why doesn't he make the same effort, he said he was sorry he was lazy and he would in thhe future. He felt the last two times we've had sex he has felt a distance between us( which was true, I wasn't very relaxed) and that he loves it when I'm really in the mood as it makes him very much in the mood also. He was worried that I would go to bed and focus on the negative aspects of our discussion where as he wanted to view it as a positive step for good communication. We are going to continue the talk tomorrow night. I asked him to sleep in the spare room tonight so I can have a little space, he came in awhile ago to kiss me goodnight. I really feel he was genuine but maybe he might have said but didn't want to hurt my feelings. I am trying to be positive but I'm worried that I won't be able to relax and enjoy our next encounter as I'll be wondering if I'm exciting home enough or am I just making problems for myself?
Anyway thanks so much for listening to me moaning away :)

I don't excite him a little but less than I did before.

What does this mean? Is this what he said to you? If it means what I think it means, it's not good. It's like someone saying that they don't love someone as much as they did before... which to me effectively means they don't love the person any more fullstop.

It's hard to know what to advise but I don't think it should be you making the effort all the time. Why not retreat a bit and see if he bothers to make an effort?

I've a pain and a knot of tension in my stomach and I can't sleep. Initially I thought he meant Nothing really bad, he loves me and finds me attractive but he did say he finds me a little less exciting than before which I translated in to "doesn't feel like ripping my clothes off everytime he sees me sort of thing" o did challenge it by saying you're trying not to hurt me so if you're admitting to finding me a little less exciting maybe it really is a lot worse than that, he insisted no. Now I don't know, I just feel sick with worry. He thinks the idea of an affair is ludicrous, I believed he was telling the truth....then asked him if he was thinking of someone particular when he pleasures himself, he said no, no one in particular, me and different scenarios. He thinks we'd be fne if we were getting on better. For me it's the lack of intimacy that's causing the problems :(

Chocolokka, really feel for you. Have no experience of this but you seem such a lovely person who is being treated appallingly by someone who is meant to love you.

I'm sorry, but it totally sounds like an affair to me. I believe you'd have some peace of mind if you found out the truth but right now he sounds like he is messing with your head, something I'd never be able to forgive when I could possibly get over an affair.

I know I'll get slated for suggesting this but have you/can you check his email or phone? Internet history? Bank statements? Or look for evidence of a second phone? I know checking up on someone isn't great, but for me all bets are off if someone starts messing with my mind.

Apologies for any typos am on my phone.

Big hugs.
X

Thanks enuffalready,
I'm not trying to defend him, I don't think he was trying to hurt me, he can't help it if I don't excite him 100% of the time, yes he has become lazy, he is responsible for that. He feels our situation isn't unique, it probably isn't but usually (totally generalizing here) it's the man who wants more sex, he doesn't agree. I dunno, if he is messing my head it's totally cruel. I gave him plenty of opportunity to be completely honest with me, we'll talk more tonight....maybe I shouldn't bother. I don't buy the low sex drive thing though, not definitely saying he's getting it elsewhere but....he says our sex life will improve but I ont think I'll feel comfortable again. I'd need a bottle of wine to unwind and since I'm breastfeeding that is not on th cards. I'm exhausted which isn't helping me. Thanks for replying and excuse my typos..

Sorry, I meant to add that we have free access to each others phones, emails, laptops etc there are no secrets there. The place I don have access to is his office computer at work. When he I on the computer himself he is just on a website similar to this one about his hobbies.
I said to him maybe the marriag is doomed and he said no, he really thinks we have similar outlook and it will work out.

I'm sorry to say it, but he's showing all the signs of an affair. My guess is the woman at work whos husbands away, seeing a game and staying overnight, 'not as exciting as a new relationship.'
My h did this when i was pregnant with DD2, i was relieved when he finally left, because he treated me with utter contempt. I thought it was me and couldnt work out what i was doing wrong. It was him. I hope things become clearer and better for you. Really sorry you're going through this.

I don't have time to post properly now. His night away was totally innocent, he didn't go alone, he went with friends and I saw photos so I know it was totally legit. But thanks for your imput :)

Didn't mean to be rude and not acknowledge your own hurt, I'm so sorry your husband did that to you :(

Well i hope i'm wrong!
Just came back to say that knowledge is power! I mean that if you know, but he doesnt know you know, then you are more in control. Iyswim.
Hope you have a good day. Can you treat yourself to a hair do? See friends? Have cake?

Thanks weevilswobble, I think I will have a large slice of cake today. If he is having an affair which he again has sworn he hasn't he would have to conduct it during office hours as he never really goes out alone in the evenings at least very rarely. We talked again and he totally accepts he is mostly to blame in our current situation. I asked him to clarify the " less excited bit" and he thinks that it's just the over familiarity that has led him to seek sex less frequently. He says when we do do it, it's really good and can understand why we don't do it more but then routine sets in again......he insists that he is still in love and is still attracted to me andwill make more of an effort, but I feel it shouldn't be an effort. Maybe I'm being unrealistic